Sinar Shutter on Field Camera

[wfwhitaker]

Has anybody tried marrying a Sinar shutter to a field camera and lived to tell about it? Could somebody give me the specific dimensions of a Sinar shutter and its weight? Are these things reliable? I know they're expensive. You know where this is going...

[Carioca]

Around 6x7inches, with a 3inch diameter opening.
Weight, around 550 grams.
Speeds: 8sec to 1/60th., very reliable.
There are older models without the side aperture scale mechanism. = less weight.

It's possible to front mount, but depends on your camera and lens combination.

Sidney

[Ken Lee]

Here are some snapshots of the shutter. One side attaches to the front of the bellows, while the other side attaches to the rear of the front standard. The shutter does not hold the lens board. It is the front standard, which holds the lens board. When you swing and tilt the front standard, the shutter, which is attached to the front standard, swings and tilts along with it. It is always parallel to the front standard.


http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/bellows.jpg
The bellows snap into this female side.


http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/ThisSideFacesLens.jpg
This male side snaps into the rear of the front standard


My measurements are in inches, and I presume that the camera is made according to Metric measures, but these will give you the basic idea.

The male portion is a square of around 5.4 inches, and the female is a square of around 5.5 inches.

As you can see, there are ridges which act as baffles.

[wfwhitaker]

Sidney, merci, and Ken thank you for the images. A Packard would offer a larger shutter opening, but at the expense of exposure control. Oy.

[Ash]

I was *very* tempted to do this to facilitate barrel lenses on a field camera, but when I saw the cost of the shutter and the work involved I realised I was better off investing in a shuttered lens and avoid the 'bargain barrels'.

[Mark Sampson]

The field camera that shutter will fit on is called a ' Sinar-F '.

[pjotr]

http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroom/redbook-e/collection/moriya.html

[Carioca]

Will,
what kind of lens would you wish to shutter mount, and what is the format of your field camera?

Sidney

[Carioca]

The field camera that shutter will fit on is called a ' Sinar-F '.

I'm not sure if a Sinar F can be called a 'field camera'.
To my knowledge, field cameras are 'foldings', etc. ...

[Ken Lee]

I paid $600 for my used Sinar P, including Sinar case and an additional extension rail. That was less than what one can pay for a new wooden field camera.

Even when you add the cost of a (used) Sinar shutter, it's still much less than I paid for a new Arca Swiss Discovery - a lovely camera, but lacking some of the geared and yaw-free movements, and also needing an extension rail to accommodate lenses longer than 210mm.

I just got a 360mm APO Nikkor for a terrific price, from another member of this forum. Mounting that lens in a shutter (if it can be done) would cost as much as the price of the Sinar shutter. Instead, I only needed a Technika board for it to sit on.

The Sinar shutter has allowed me to explore some lenses that I would have never considered. For example, I got a coated 190mm Bausch and Lomb Tessar lens, in barrel, for free. 190mm ? Funny length. It's now on a Technika board. It's an excellent lens, with superb blur and a round diaphragm that has more blades than I can count. On eBay, I got a 250mm coated Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar, in barrel, for a very good price. I put it on a Sinar board, and it's my favorite lens for portraits.

[CG]

www.skgrimes.com/fits/index.htm is a great resource to see what lens fits what shutter info.

C

[wfwhitaker]

Will,
what kind of lens would you wish to shutter mount, and what is the format of your field camera?

Sidney

Sidney,

I want to be able to use any of a number of older lenses mounted in barrels. I'm not looking to mount one lens into a shutter. I merely am looking for something a little more sophisticated than a Packard, although the Packard is hard to beat for my application. The camera format is 7x11 inches.

~Will

[Merg Ross]

Will,I adapted the Sinar shutter to my Calumet 8x10 (C-10) and made my own wooden lensboards for the barrel lenses. The shutter is very accurate. Vibration concerns, in my opinion, are not well founded. This shutter is a real pleasure to use after years with the Packard.

[Allen in Montreal]

Will,I adapted the Sinar shutter to my Calumet 8x10 (C-10) and made my own wooden lensboards for the barrel lenses. The shutter is very accurate. Vibration concerns, in my opinion, are not well founded. This shutter is a real pleasure to use after years with the Packard.

Merg,

This is an idea I have been toying with for a while, I think it would a a bit time consuming to get perfect out of the gate, but over the long term, a great solution once tweaked to perfection.

Was it fairly straight forward as projects go?

Ideally, to have the barrels mounted in a Tech V type boards, onto a home made adapter, using the Sinar shutter, or even a packard for those who wish to go that route, behind the adapter board sounds ideal.

[Merg Ross]

Allen, make that a C-1 Calumet, I believe that is the correct nomenclature for the 8x10.

My inclination has been to modify my cameras with wood derived solutions first, and if that fails, seek a machine shop. This is probably because my first 8x10's were built of wood and easy to modify. Beauty never played a role in my solutions!. If you would like a pic of the Calumet/Sinar set-up, let me know.

[John T]

Here was my solution to the Sinar Shutter. It is mounted on a Phillips 8x10 Compact II. I removed the aperture setting device and readout, shortened the lever to close the shutter and removed the sync jack. To attach the universal lens mount, I made a lens board that extended it away from the shutter about 1/2".

I got lucky with the shutter. I bought it from eBay at a time when there were a lot of people saying disparaging remarks about the vibration and drove the price down. I think I spent $200 and got 2 cable releases with it.

[wfwhitaker]

Merg and John, it's good to know that other folks have made the idea work. Having never even seen a Sinar shutter in the flesh, I found this reference at Cameraeccentric (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/sinar_2.html) very helpful. I should have looked there sooner.

[Ken Lee]

Thanks for posting that - Now I know where the filter holder is ! Duhhh

Shooting at wider apertures in full daylight can be a problem, because the Sinar shutter only goes up to 1/60. With a film like TMY at ISO 200, a neutral density filter is required, and I have had to hold it by hand up until now.

[wfwhitaker]

Now I know where the filter holder is!


Yes, it was very thoughtful of Sinar to include a filter holder. 1/60 isn't fast, but it's a stop better than a Packard on a good day - and hopefully more reliable.

[Ken Lee]

Heavens... If you leave the shutter on the camera all the time, that means you only need only one set of filters (with the exception of polarizers).

[Merg Ross]

This is how I modified the Sinar shutter to work on the Calumet C-1. It does not work from behind, as intended. However, it suits my way of working in the field and allows for myriad barrel lenses on easily made wooden boards. Three studs at the back of the shutter board (shutter is attached to Calumet board) hold filters in frames.

[Ken Lee]

That is, as the British would say... Brilliant !

[Frank Petronio]

John T's solution is quite elegant, with that universal lens mount.

I know you are trying to use it with a 7x11 camera but with a Sinar, a nice solution is to mount the shutter on an intermediate standard, adding another bellows in front of it and then you can mount the barrel lenses on standard Sinar boards rather than those funky DB mounts.

[W K Longcor]

John T's solution is quite elegant, with that universal lens mount.

I know you are trying to use it with a 7x11 camera but with a Sinar, a nice solution is to mount the shutter on an intermediate standard, adding another bellows in front of it and then you can mount the barrel lenses on standard Sinar boards rather than those funky DB mounts.

I've been fooling around with trying to design my own extention board with iris lens clamp. Your idea -- is so simple -- and so easy. Thank you!

[Frank Petronio]

Sanders McNew showed me, and I am sure someone showed him before...

[Allen in Montreal]

Here was my solution to the Sinar Shutter. It is mounted on a Phillips 8x10 Compact II. I removed the aperture setting device and readout, shortened the lever to close the shutter and removed the sync jack. To attach the universal lens mount, I made a lens board that extended it away from the shutter about 1/2".
....

John,

At max drop, can the shutter speed ring touch the camera body giving concern for possible damage in an accidental release of the front standard?

Thank you,

[Allen in Montreal]

This is how I modified the Sinar shutter to work on the Calumet C-1. It does not work from behind, as intended. However, it suits my way of working in the field and allows for myriad barrel lenses on easily made wooden boards. Three studs at the back of the shutter board (shutter is attached to Calumet board) hold filters in frames.

Merg,

Thank you for posting. This is along the idea of what I was considering trying to patch together, I am hoping to use Tech V boards for space. I will attempt it on a Packard at first if I can find a deal, and then work it through on a more advanced shutter If I like the direction it is going.

Winter here is long, and cold January and February months are the perfect time to be on the darkroom and to tinker.


best regards,


Allen

[Carioca]

Certainly a less elegant solution, but it works well:
front mount of the shutter.
I had a custom made adapter machined, that screws into the rear of the sinar shutter.
With custom adapter rings, it can then be mounted to different barrel lenses, fixed with the three tightening screws.

Sidney

[Ken Lee]

It looks pretty elegant to me !

If I were to design a new view camera from scratch, I would include "native support" for this sort of thing.

I would also figure out a way to take modern lenses out of their 5 and 8-bladed shutters, and use waterhouse stops instead. Who needs those pentagonal and octagonal diaphragms after all ?

That would combine the best of modern and "classical" technology.

[Carioca]

Thanks Ken.
I had to opt for this solution since I'm shooting 'only' 4x5, and therefore no way to get the sinar shutter close to the front standart of my folding.
Regarding the iris, yes, waterhouse stops are great, can't figure out why with todays technology, it is impossible to build nice round diaphragms...
Other very round shaped solution, as someone once posted here, 'shoot f***ing wide open'.
:)

Sidney

[John T]

Allen,

It could. But to be honest, I don't know if I ever that a front standard drop accidentally. The Phillips locks down pretty snugly.

There is a lock mechanism on the camera that levels off the front standard so that you can do rise/fall without a tilt. This gets in the way of the shutter and that is way I mounted it upside down. It is also easier to see when the camera is placed at a high vantage point.

If you move the locking mechanism to the other side of the front standard, they this could be mounted right side up.

John

[Andrea Gazzoni]

here is my wista 8x10 with sinar shutter, all I had to do was mounting it reverse (male side to camera).
a lens mounted flush with the lensboard like my ronar 600 fits directly onto the shutter, for lenses with protruding rear cells I use this wooden adapter that substantially puts an inch or so between the shutter and the back of the lens.
I am now working on having the big apo nikkor 610 in this setup.

attachments follow, first one is the nikkor 480 with the adapter, the other are of the ronar 600 setup.

andre

[Frank Petronio]

One more tip - when or if you locate a source for the extra throw cable releases needed by this shutter (Gepes are not long enough -- most people use the $100 Sinar ones) by all means get as many cable releases as you can afford.

[edwinb]

I'm not sure if a Sinar F can be called a 'field camera'.
To my knowledge, field cameras are 'foldings', etc. ...

there is an option with a sliding back but this has now been superceeded (and surpassed) by the arTec camera which is portable arTec camera specifications (http://www.image2output.com/Product.aspx?id=2143&cat=45)

[Allen in Montreal]

....... I removed the aperture setting device and readout, shortened the lever to close the shutter and removed the sync jack........

Thank you John,
Can you tell us how easy or hard it was to remove the aperture portion of the shutter?
It looks like Merg has done this too?

[Allen in Montreal]

.....first one is the nikkor 480 with the adapter.....

andre

I just picked up a Nikkor apo 480 this weekend too, looking forward to seeing what it can do. I will play with a Packard first and then venture into the perhaps the Sinar later.

[clay harmon]

Who can service these Sinar shutters? I have one, but it is dead. It will cock, but the release doesn't move the blades. Which is sort of the idea.

[Frank Petronio]

Pretty sure Precision Camera Works (Bob Watkins) can. He used to work for Sinar before Arca, he works on both.

[edwinb]

we can do servicing / repair on all sinar cameras.
however I have detailed technical drawings and setup/adjustment proceedures which I have made into pdf's- too big to post here. These include component parts data and image2output can supply the components for those proficient enough.- email the required partnumber and contact details to sales@image2output.com.

if anyyone wants specific data please email me direct and I will give them a download location for the partlists/drawings

Some current product data I have included under the specific products on the image2output site.

p3 for example (http://www.image2output.com/Product.aspx?id=1718&cat=45)

[Ken Lee]

I have one, but it is dead. It will cock, but the release doesn't move the blades.

Mine gets into this state, when the little doo-hickey needs to move, but can't - because a lens or board comes too close to the front of the shutter.

If that's the case, then it is easy to fix. If you look at the second photo I have posted - the male side of the shutter - you will see a red dot at the bottom of the unit. Just above that, there is a pin which slides along a curved path.

If you move that pin, gently, along that path (counter-clock-wise in the photo), you will hear a click. Once that has happened, you should be able to cock and trip the shutter normally again.

[Allen in Montreal]

Ken,

Could be physically possible, even with a touch of work, to mount and recessed board in reverse and use that on lenses where the rear interferes with the shutter?

[Ken Lee]

Remember that the boards have grooves, in order to create a light trap, or baffle. I don't know if you can mount them in reverse.

When I used a 360mm Heliar, the rear of the lens extended backwards, too much, towards the shutter. I had to add a ring to the front of the lens board (between the lens ring and the lens board) so that the lens would not go too far towards the shutter. I paid a machine shop to make me the extra ring.

If you want to get creative, there are many possibilities.

[edwinb]

Image2output provide service to all Sinar equipment. However all the component spare parts are also available from those able to use them.
The drawings and adjustment proceedures are avaialble but too large to post here- its a library.
Some detailed technical data is included on the image2output.com site under the relevent product if its still current e.g.
click here for an example of downloadable details (http://www.image2output.com/Product.aspx?id=1720&cat=45)

I can provide most other specific assembly drawings on request- email me directly

[Armin Seeholzer]

Here is my solution to mount my Sinar shutter on every camera wich can take a Sinar board!
My Burke & James had already a Sinar lensboard adapter, so I in my case used 2 Sinar boards front to front with a distance of 1 cm on one side was the modern Sinar board on the other should be the very old Norma board or in my case it was the cheap Novak Sinar board wich fits perfectly on the shutter.
To the front of the shutter I used the frame only from a back standard it could also be from a front standard only the frame of it!
So now I can putt every Sinar lensboard on my Burke & James and I can use this on every camera which fits a Sinar board!

[Andrea Gazzoni]

well done Armin, this way you can use sinar db mount lenses also, right?
can you show some detail of the two lensboards and how you joined them? how large did you have to drill the opening? what's the weight of this setup with the spare sinar front frame?
thank you
Andre

[Armin Seeholzer]

"well done Armin, this way you can use sinar db mount lenses also, right? "
Yes this ist correct and its anyway the best fastest und easiest way in my opinion an I can use any Sinar HLV now not only this one also my older one!

Okay the opening is 85mm on the lensboards so non vignetting can happen, and it is important thad you not take a new Sinar lensboard on one side! The whole setup including shutter is 1,2 Kg.
Pictures will follow after I'm back from Photokina in Köln!
Have a good time Armin

[Darryl Baird]

several of these solutions appear to limit front tilts, if so, how much limitation and how do you manage a workaround?

My Chamonix 8x10 (with a Sinar compatible lensboard) looses all possible forward/backward tilts with the Sinar (Norma) Copal shutter attached. I think I could construct an extension similar to Armin's, with a deeper offset, but I'd like to explore all options.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

this will probably end up as a silly question, but...
I am wondering if db mount lenses like the one attached can be used on my setup ( http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=393949#post393949 ) when a spacer is mounted between the shutter and the lensboard.
I don't know how these lenses work, but it seems to me that they have a rear pin that should interact with the shutter in some way. If that's right, I guess there must be a fixed distance between this kind of lens and the sinar shutter.

thank you for your help

[Struan Gray]

You need to look at the front of the board too. "DBM" lenses have a manual override of the aperture linkage and can be used like any other lens in barrel. "DB" lenses can only stop down the aperture using the linkage from the shutter assembly: these ones need to be the correct distance in front of the shutter (and they won't work with the Norma era shutters either).

DBM lenses usually have a distinctive pale grey band with the aperture numbers written on it, with a prominent red button.

A google image search on "Sinar DBM" turns up useful pictures. I don't want to link to any since they are mostly on eBay and will vanish quite soon.

[Armin Seeholzer]

You ned the frame of a Frontstandard or a backstandard they are as a frame identically, and then you have the correct distance!

Cheers Armin

[Dirk Rösler]

Could be physically possible, even with a touch of work, to mount and recessed board in reverse and use that on lenses where the rear interferes with the shutter?

jorgeamoreno2003@comcast.net (I believe ID oaklandlenscom on ebay)

This guy based in the US makes custom wooden boards. If you need clearance in the rear, it is called an "extension box". Normal Sinar boards are around $12, the extension boxes I believe just under $30. The wood is light and postage cheap. Obviously not a metal job for the big guns. His turnaround time and precision do vary, so you need to be patient at times, but I got all I needed from him eventually. YMMV

[John T]

Darryl,

That is why I removed the aperture setting device on the side of my shutter. I have full front tilts (unless it is at full fall position) on my Phillips. Since the Chamonix is based on the Phillips design it should work well. In fact, it should work better because you should be able to mount it right side up since the vertical lock on the Chamonix isn't on the front of the front standard.

John

[Armin Seeholzer]

Okay here are the pics!
Hope it helps.

Cheers Armin

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've been using two Sinar Norma Shutters for about thirty years, now. If you use the Norma Cables, on the Normas, it is about as quick to operate, as any Medium-Format I've ever used. Whether plate film, or roll film.

[isaacc7]

The other thing you can do is use a Sinar shutter on a Horseman rail camera. They're pretty cheap these days, and fine cameras. They also fold flat, making them a little easier to carry than most monorails IMO. I was able to shoot both 4x5 and 5x7 with it (just changed the back). I did have to take the aperture scale off of the side, and of course you the automatic closing bit didn't work like it would on a Sinar, but it was a fun way of using some barrel lenses...

Isaac

[johndesq125]

Certainly a less elegant solution, but it works well:
front mount of the shutter.
I had a custom made adapter machined, that screws into the rear of the sinar shutter.
With custom adapter rings, it can then be mounted to different barrel lenses, fixed with the three tightening screws.

Sidney

Sidney, thanks for the link...it is looking great..
My friend did the same.

[Lachlan 717]

Stay tuned on this one; I am in the process of getting a new non-folding 4x5 timber camera built with the express purpose of using with a Sinar shutter...

Hopefully be ready in a month or so.

Lachlan.

[Hans vd Elst]

Very interesting thread. Just what I had planned to do myself.
Needless to say I'll be monitoring this closely. :)


Btw.
I guess there's no alternative for that insanely priced sinar cable release? :(

[Armin Seeholzer]

Btw.
I guess there's no alternative for that insanely priced sinar cable release?

No there is not, but when you see the cable release you understand why he is expensive!

Cheers Armin

[Armin Seeholzer]

Btw.
I guess there's no alternative for that insanely priced sinar cable release?

No there is not, but when you see the cable release you understand why he is expensive!

Cheers Armin

[Lachlan 717]

Very interesting thread. Just what I had planned to do myself.
Needless to say I'll be monitoring this closely. :)


Btw.
I guess there's no alternative for that insanely priced sinar cable release? :(

Nup. It has a massive throw. DO NOT buy one that doesn't have one if you have the idea to adapt a non-Sinar cable. Too difficult (if not impossible).

Lachlan

[Paul Ewins]

I've often wondered about the reason for the long throw cable. Most shutters only have a little bit of movement required to trip them. Does the cable fire the shutter only or does it stop down the aperture as well?

When you use the cable is there resistance all the way through or just at the end of the action? How long is the actual throw anyway?

[Hans vd Elst]

I've often wondered about the reason for the long throw cable. Most shutters only have a little bit of movement required to trip them. Does the cable fire the shutter only or does it stop down the aperture as well?

When you use the cable is there resistance all the way through or just at the end of the action? How long is the actual throw anyway?

There's resistance all the way but I haven't really paid attention to the closing of the aperture. (Don't want to be poking in it with a paperclip to much).
I'm told the throw has to be 35mm.

[Lachlan 717]

There's resistance all the way but I haven't really paid attention to the closing of the aperture. (Don't want to be poking in it with a paperclip to much).
I'm told the throw has to be 35mm.

I, too, have never looked at the aperture closing (as I don't use DB mounts; just brass/barrell lenses).

I can confirm that the throw would be over 30mm. I spent a while a) looking for a long throw non-Sinar cable (about 20mm was the longest) and b) trying to adapt one (the thumb plunger was never long enough to make much of a difference at the other end).

Lachlan.

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Certainly a less elegant solution, but it works well:
front mount of the shutter.
I had a custom made adapter machined, that screws into the rear of the sinar shutter.
With custom adapter rings, it can then be mounted to different barrel lenses, fixed with the three tightening screws.

Sidney

Sidney, do you happen to know (or can measure) the diameter and thread pitch of the adapter/shutter threads?
How much of a weight do you dare to put on the shutter with this set-up?

[LF_rookie_to_be]

An old Norma manual mentions Series IX as a specification of the short threaded tube in the front of the shutter. That would be 85mm in diameter. Does anyone know the thread pitch of Series IX?

[Steven Tribe]

You will have to post a PM to Sydney to get a response, this is always a problem with old threads.

I have measured the old (norma) and the new versions of the sinar/copal shutter and they are both 1mm threads.

I wish the shutter release was just as standard!

[Leonard Robertson]

I compared the inner threads of my Sinar Copal shutter (version with black upper plate and silver shutter speed numbers) with a Tiffen Series #9 adapter ring. As you said, the Series #9 measures approximately 85mm inside the threads on the adapter. However, the threads inside the Copal shutter measure more like 83mm. Amazingly close, but I can't get a Series #9 retaining ring to screw into the Copal shutter threads. The retaining ring thread is just too large diameter. Both my adapter rings are labeled "Series 9", not "Series IX", but I'm reasonably sure both names apply to the same size rings and threads. I have a vague memory of a Sinar shutter that predated the Copal shutter, maybe made by Compur for Sinar. It may have used a different inner thread size than the Copal version. But that is just a guess. Maybe someone else can post better information.

Len

[Leonard Robertson]

After reading Steven's post, I found my metric thread pitch gauge and it does appear the Sinar Copal inner thread is 1.0mm pitch. An issue with the Copal shutter is the pin for the DB mount is very close to the inner threads and sticks up about 3mm from the face of the threads. If an adapter were made to screw into the inner threads, this would need to be allowed for.

Steven - Is the diameter of the thread the same on both of your shutters? Does the older version have a maker's name on it, such as Compur?

Len

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Leonard, if it's of any importance, my shutter is an older version, without the pin you mentioned. This is what is looks like:

http://i48.tinypic.com/nyfhcl.jpg

Detail of the threads:

http://i48.tinypic.com/s2to3r.jpg

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Do be careful about putting stress on the shutter if you are planning on mounting lenses on this thread. The shutters are beautifully built, but not designed to carry weight.

[DrTang]

An issue with the Copal shutter is the pin for the DB mount is very close to the inner threads and sticks up about 3mm from the face of the threads. If an adapter were made to screw into the inner threads, this would need to be allowed for.


Len


that pin is for apeture control ..right? I just snipped it off mine as I didn't need it and it was in the way

[erie patsellis]

that pin is for apeture control ..right? I just snipped it off mine as I didn't need it and it was in the way

That's a bit extreme, isn't it, considering to takes only 5 minutes or so to remove four screws and reversibly remove the aperture control. It is your shutter, but doing that makes it nearly worthless to anyone afterward should they actually want to use the shutter as it was intended.

[Len Middleton]

On a Sinar camera, I believe the shutter is mounted between the front standard and the bellows, and thus the shutter needs only to support its own weight and the weight of the bellows.

In reviewing all the images in this thread, it looks like most, if not all non-Sinar applications have the shutter bearing the load of the lens and lensboard too.

Given this thread is over 4 years old and one of the attractions is the use of barrel lenses including big portrait lenses, has anyone aware of damage to the shutter caused by the weight put onto the shutter...

Or with careful use (i,e, gently, with no impact loading), it has not been a problem...

On a related note, there was an eBay seller (Hong Kong or China I think) offering metal adapter plates to mount the Sinar shutter onto non-Sinar cameras (Deardorff is of interest). Did anyone try those and does anyone have the contact info...

[cowanw]

I believe RichardK used these for this kit
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?68023-Sinar-Auto-Shutter-Kit-for-Your-Brassies
Unfortunately the pictures are gone.
But I do know he was satisfied.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi Len

I still use my Sinar shutter in front of my Burke & James even with a 610mm APO Nikkor seldom with the much heavier, Universal Heliar 360mm or my 360mm Sironar N or the 240mm Sironar SE! It stated Swiss Made on the shutter so I do not see a Problem up to 2-3 kg.

Cheers Armin

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Armin, do you use an adapter to screw-in 610/360 lenses to the shutter itself?

[Len Middleton]

I still use my Sinar shutter in front of my Burke & James even with a 610mm APO Nikkor seldom with the much heavier, Universal Heliar 360mm or my 360mm Sironar N or the 240mm Sironar SE! It stated Swiss Made on the shutter so I do not see a Problem up to 2-3 kg.


Armin,

So do you think the Swiss diplomacy will be extended to the mass of brass and glass encompassed in an English built 325mm f4.5 Cooke Portrait IIE...

From the pictures, it is difficult to tell if the housing is plastic or metal and how the front and rear are held together.

Thank you for your insights,

Len

[LF_rookie_to_be]

From the pictures, it is difficult to tell if the housing is plastic or metal and how the front and rear are held together.

All metal on mine, manufacture date 1965. Left side of front speed dial plate reads "Made in Japan", and on the right, underneath old-style Sinar logo, "Switzerland" - so who knows where the final assembly took place. Few pages from the service manual:

88117 88118 88119 88120

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi LF_rookie you can see it on my pics here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?40730-Sinar-Shutter-on-Field-Camera/page6

I use a Burke & James to Sinar adapter from the Grimes factory, and the rest is self produced with two Sinar boards and a bit of fantasy called a Sinar front frame, to get the right distance so I even can use originally Sinar DB&DBM lenses!

Cheers Armin

[Stephen Thomason]

The Sinar shutter cable does stop the aperture down on the way to firing the shutter. The way to avoid the sometimes maligned Sinar Shutter Shake, I have found, thanks to posts on this forum, is to SLOWLY depress the shutter cable. About at the end of the throw you will feel an increased resistance - that is where the shutter is about to fire. Continue to depress slowly and the shutter fires. Using that method I have not experienced camera shake that finds its way to the image.

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes, you can feel the resistance of the aperture. Move through that, hold, and then slowly press the rest of the way to fire the shutter. Also, if you have a multi-second exposure, "B" gives by far the softest release of any setting.

[aluncrockford]

I'm not sure if a Sinar F can be called a 'field camera'.
To my knowledge, field cameras are 'foldings', etc. ...

Not according to Sinar, the F stands for field, though it could be argued that the experience of using an F in the field is slightly less that perfect.

[TenOx]

The F may stand for Field per Sinar, but it's only less of an anchor than the traditional P line, and does not have the facility of use in the field
of a folder that forms its own case, nor even a boxy press camera (Graphlex.)

Like a lot of people, I have a Sinar Auto Shutter but no cable. I thought it would be easier to come up with one when I bought the unit a few
-years- ago, but it has not been. I've kept it on the back burner in the corner of my mind (<-ew!). There is a fair amount of info about the spec's
of a suitable release, such as using an M4 (4mm x 0.75)cylindrical attachment thread; 39.5 to 46mm variously of push (or throw). But despite
a number of makers of cable releases being named, none that I've looked at or written (Schreck, for example), produced a Sinar release. I guess
that is because of design patent issues? It seems to my non-expert knowledge that a non-exact copy that is designed to work with the existing
shutters would not violate business or legal interests given especially that Sinar no longer seems to make the shutters or releases....

It seems the images have disappeared that were displayed in this thread earlier, including a home-made mounting system for various barrel lenses.
Has anyone completed a working prototype of release for the Sinar shutters? Any pointers or good links for ideas? Thanks.

[Peter De Smidt]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Release-Button-For-SINAR-AUTO-APERTURE-SHUTTER-/271987728918?hash=item3f53bb6216:g:xOwAAOxyIPNTec4Q

[Armin Seeholzer]

159692159693159694159691

Okay I only can upload 4 images in one post! Here you see some snaps with my phone!

[Armin Seeholzer]

159695159696

I made it with a Burke & James to Sinar adaptor from Steve Grimes then 2 Sinar lens boards with a space between them, they looking against each other and then comes the shutter and on the shutter is a nude Sinar front frame which is from a Sinar F! So I can use any lens on a Sinar lens board!
This I show again because from the past of my post the pictures are gone!

[Daniel Unkefer]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Release-Button-For-SINAR-AUTO-APERTURE-SHUTTER-/271987728918?hash=item3f53bb6216:g:xOwAAOxyIPNTec4Q

I have one of those adapters, It works very well, I even use it on my Plaubel Makiflexes.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4633/24502455557_57f309e91f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Dkcuoi)Sinar Shutter Release (https://flic.kr/p/Dkcuoi) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Daniel Unkefer]

159695159696

I made it with a Burke & James to Sinar adaptor from Steve Grimes then 2 Sinar lens boards with a space between them, they looking against each other and then comes the shutter and on the shutter is a nude Sinar front frame which is from a Sinar F! So I can use any lens on a Sinar lens board!
This I show again because from the past of my post the pictures are gone!

I made the same thing for myself, so I could reverse-mount a Norma shutter on my Plaubel Peco Profia cameras. Then I can attach the shutter and then I can attach any of my Sinar lenses onto the Peco Profias.

[Repko]

hello everyone,

I am looking for a service manual for my Sinal Copal shutter and I saw this old posted from 2010 with a few screenshots.
Is there anyone who could send me a full copy of the service manual? I have the old green Sinar Norma version.

Thank you!

[Greg]

Just passing on two things that were passed on to me:

Store the shutter on "8 seconds" and not "B".

Also shooting rapidly with the shutter was the most common reason of the shutter breaking.

Both came from a Sinar repair person.

[Repko]

Anyone, please?

[neil poulsen]

I'm not sure if a Sinar F can be called a 'field camera'.
To my knowledge, field cameras are 'foldings', etc. ...

Any camera that can be used conveniently in the field can be considered field cameras. An Arca Swiss Cassic F is definitely a field camera.

As it was manufactured by Sinar, I didn't consider the F model to suitable for field work; too bulky when folded. But after customizing a 6" rail as a Sinar F base rail, I used my F a lot in the field, and it worked out great.

[neil poulsen]

I've seen Sinar shutter adapters made for Deardorff 8x10's on EBay. So, that's one example. I think that I've also seen them for Arca-Swiss 171mm format frames.

[William Whitaker]

As the OP and having spent much time and other resources on various adaptations, I feel my 8x10 Norma is indispensable as a field camera. That it doubles as a studio camera is the gravy on my potatoes.

[Daniel Unkefer]

As the OP and having spent much time and other resources on various adaptations, I feel my 8x10 Norma is indispensable as a field camera. That it doubles as a studio camera is the gravy on my potatoes.

I totally agree +1. Here is mine with a bag bellows and 165mm F8 Sinar Super Angulon with automation and forward mounting. With all the auto cables, almost as fast to use as a reflex camera.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4176/34521427212_c1b3c65964_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UAxkAU)DSC05763 (https://flic.kr/p/UAxkAU) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Greg]

Just ordered a SINAR140 to SINAR140 Large Format Camera Shutter metal Adapter for $102.00 from China (off the auction site). When mounted in the front standard of my Chamonix, it will extend out the Sinar shutter in order to not have the front standard's locking knobs hit it. I had fabricated a plastic extender from 2 end pieces off an old Sinar 4x5 bellows and a spacer in between them. Worked... but had a queasy feeling when I mounted the shutter and a barrel lens all dependent on the plastic Sinar bellows end pieces and the spacer glued in between them. I also used a modified Sinar Norma Auxiliary standard to support the lens, but when setting it all up and when using any front movements, the shutter and lens all hang from my glued plastic adapter. Should arrive first week in February. Will post a review on this thread when I get my hands on it.

[Repko]

hello everyone,

I am looking for a service manual for my Sinal Copal shutter and I saw this old posted from 2010 with a few screenshots.
Is there anyone who could send me a full copy of the service manual? I have the old green Sinar Norma version.

Thank you!

[Amedeus]

I made an extender from two Sinar lens boards and a 2" piece of 4" ID Delrin pipe to deal with the rears of some of the older soft focus lenses hitting the shutter. It's a solid connection and lenses like my Eidoscope #2 don't move the front standard.

Yes I use my Sinar P 8x10 as a field camera. The P2 stays at home.

The seller of the auction site with all the Sinar shutter adaptors has great products. I've converted my Deardorf V8 to use a Sinar shutter and these interfaces make it easy.

YMMV,

Cheers,


Just ordered a SINAR140 to SINAR140 Large Format Camera Shutter metal Adapter for $102.00 from China (off the auction site). When mounted in the front standard of my Chamonix, it will extend out the Sinar shutter in order to not have the front standard's locking knobs hit it. I had fabricated a plastic extender from 2 end pieces off an old Sinar 4x5 bellows and a spacer in between them. Worked... but had a queasy feeling when I mounted the shutter and a barrel lens all dependent on the plastic Sinar bellows end pieces and the spacer glued in between them. I also used a modified Sinar Norma Auxiliary standard to support the lens, but when setting it all up and when using any front movements, the shutter and lens all hang from my glued plastic adapter. Should arrive first week in February. Will post a review on this thread when I get my hands on it.

[Len Middleton]

The seller of the auction site with all the Sinar shutter adaptors has great products. I've converted my Deardorf V8 to use a Sinar shutter and these interfaces make it easy.

YMMV,

Cheers,

Under the category of YMMV, I purchased one and found it a little tight and needed to to have a small bit of metal removed to make it fit well, although I have had no problems with any lensboards on the front standard.

Well built and works well otherwise.