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View Full Version : The "Corinthian 8x10'er"



John Kasaian
16-Sep-2008, 17:06
Yachtsmen who sailed thier own boats were at one time dubbed "corinthians" to distinguish them from those who hired crews. It always impressed me as a pretty cool term like "roll your own" and "DIY."

Perhaps it is inappropriate to use in this context, but "corinthian" to me also signifies a less costly, thus more affordable approach to sailing and just maybe 8x10 photography as well.

8x10 Photography dosen't have to be like the "Sport of Kings" although the costs and quantities of materials used are, like the wieght of the gear, considerably greater than with smaller formats.

So this is for all you "corinthian" 8x10'ers out there---how do you skipper your format so that it is both affordable and fun?

What films, chemistry, lenses and other gear float your fiscal boat?

C. D. Keth
16-Sep-2008, 17:31
Yachtsmen who sailed thier own boats were at one time dubbed "corinthians" to distinguish them from those who hired crews. It always impressed me as a pretty cool term like "roll your own" and "DIY."

Perhaps it is inappropriate to use in this context, but "corinthian" to me also signifies a less costly, thus more affordable approach to sailing and just maybe 8x10 photography as well.

8x10 Photography dosen't have to be like the "Sport of Kings" although the costs and quantities of materials used are, like the wieght of the gear, considerably greater than with smaller formats.

So this is for all you "corinthian" 8x10'ers out there---how do you skipper your format so that it is both affordable and fun?

What films, chemistry, lenses and other gear float your fiscal boat?

This will be interesting. I will be following it closely.

Thus far, I haven't shot a single sheet of film but I think I've got quite a small budget going. I purchased a kodak 2D for $200 with all the toppings and a 10-inch commercial ektar for $160 shipped. Add a good bit of my time and I almost have a very nice, solid, pretty camera to start using. I highly recommend starting with an older camera and making it fit your needs.

Rafael Garcia
16-Sep-2008, 17:58
Not an 8x10er, but a 5x7er and a 4x5er... The cheapest I can think of (and I have done it with excellent results) is to shoot paper negatives (ISO 5 approximately) and reverse them in Photoshop or similar program. Paper, of course, is orthochromatic, so the results are always "vintage", and cheap!

Vaughn
16-Sep-2008, 18:12
Lost in a sea of light somewhere on the coast of the State of Jefferson -- making 8x10 prints from Knox Unflavored Gelatin, sugar and carbon.

Vaughn

Kirk Gittings
16-Sep-2008, 18:21
I love the term and hope it "sticks".

BarryS
16-Sep-2008, 18:28
Starting with film because it's the biggest ongoing expense--I've been shooting expired odds and ends. My practice film is Nixon-era Tri-X and 15 year old TMX. My new films are recently expired half-price TMX, Arista EDU Ultra, and APHS. I have no issue with buying top notch, fresh film, but I like to feel free to experiment and practice without worrying about film costs. I soup in Pyrocat HD --a very economical developer.

I try to look for inexpensive lenses that do the job. I got a 240mm Symmar-S thrown in with my 2D--the big plasmats are unloved these days, but are top notch lenses. I have a Packard shutter box so I can use (bottom of the) barrel lenses. There are plenty of cheap non-cult barrel lenses that cover 8x10. I've repaired the broken irises on a couple of lenses--got them for very little. I also bought a cheap table saw so I can make my own lens boards and accessories.

I've skipped most of the pricey accessories like a new tripod and a fancy head--the setup I use for 4x5 is fine. I did splurge on a used Jobo Expert drum because it really makes film processing a joy. Everything I buy is used--some of it broken, but repairable.

Jim Fitzgerald
16-Sep-2008, 18:35
John, as one who has had to "make do" I think I've done OK. I have to work a second job to support myself and my habit. My regular paycheck goes to putting my three son's through college. ( two down and one to go!) so I have had to search out deals. My 8x10 is a 1904 Seneca Improved 8x10 with the extension rail and a decent bellows. It has given me a lot of joy. I started searching e-bay and reading a lot about lenses and holders and film and chemicals. I've put lenses together from parts and they seem to work great. ( Walnut barreled 14" commercial Ektar complete with waterhouse stops) and others. If you search and do the research and take the advice of the people on the forums you can do it on the cheap. I use AZO ( found great deals on the web) Amidol, Ansco 130 Pyrocat- HD. I've found T-max 400, Fp-4 and other films on the web for great prices.
Most importantly I have learned and tried to absorb as much as I can and experiment a lot. I am finding my look and I am very excited about the future. You can do 8x10 for not a lot of money. You can also become obsessed with all of this as I have.
I could not afford an 8x20 or 11x14 so I built them both. It was a challenge to build them but very rewarding. I am currently building my second Walnut tripod. This one is for the 11x14. I will more than likely at some point build a Walnut 8x10 so I can have all three of them the same. Luckily I work a lot at my second job but sometimes food is a luxury! It is doable if you really want to.
I'm looking forward to 2010 when my youngest graduates. It will be nice to have some extra cash to buy more fresh film for a change.
Almost forgot. I'm into Gelatin, sugar and carbon also. It doesn't get any better than this!

Jim

Jim Galli
16-Sep-2008, 19:34
Well, I've been called a Cretan but never a Corinthian. In more puritan times the term corinthian was used for someone with loose morals.

Never-the-less, and in the spirit of the original post, let me tell you how a world class cheapskate does 8X10. Kodak 2D complete for $285. Packard from somewhere but I can't remember what it cost. At todays prices perhaps $85 bucks. That let's you use any old $56 8 1/4" Dagor that happens along, or anything else interesting too. That leaves film and developing. About 3 years ago, john at J & C Classic had a lot of 10" wide by 100 foot long Cirkut camera film. It was Efke 100 and getting a little long in the tooth for retail sale. He blew it out for $85 a roll and I bought 10 rolls. That means I can make about 1500 negatives for .57 cents each. I'm a little over half way through. Then there's Sandy King's wonderful PyroCat-HD formula. It has proven to be extremely thrifty and also works well with the Packard shutter's shortcomings. So that is how a guy making wages can compete with the big boys. You don't have to be a docter, lawyer or indian chief.

Greg Lockrey
16-Sep-2008, 20:55
It's funny, when the thread started and the term corinthian was used, the first name that came to my mind was Jim Galli. :)

erie patsellis
16-Sep-2008, 21:14
Wow, I've been saying the same thing for years, it doesn't have to be expensive.

I'll be the first to say I'm not only a Corinthian, but a Lesbian too. (insert your own really bad '80's cliche), Seriously, my family comes from Agiasou, on the island of Lesvos, now called Mytilini.

While I have a big $$ (relatively speaking) Sinar 4x5/8x10 P with all the bells and whistles that I use in the studio, if I spent a total of $1000.00 over a period of a few years, I'd be shocked. Of course the $1000 was a hundred on this lens, repair or have repaired the shutter, sell for $250 or $300, put the gains into the studio fund (coffee can, really) and "reinvest" the principal. Repeat a bunch of times. Not instant gratification, but also has bought me a really nice older Broncolor strobe outfit for the studio and a Phase One scan back as well.

I find I have more fun and less worry when I shoot my self built 8x10 field camera (cost about $45 or $50 at most), and am looking forward to shooting my 20x24/16x20 that is built from primarily cabinet shop scraps, a "throw away" set of bellows from a process camera, packard shutter and a less than perfect, but perfectly good Ektar 21 1/4" from Jim, along with a 360 Componon and a 19" Artar (I was given both), total cost for the big camera comes in at under $175.00. I still have to build film holders, I can guarantee that they won't be traditional style, but will be cheap. I've already solved the light trap issues and just need to clean the garage out so I can get in there and make lots of sawdust.

Using non traditional approaches (e.g. drawer slides for the focus stage) and some selective dumpster diving, I've been able to keep costs down to what a $12/hour job can sustain.

On the issue of film, Jim left out the joys of lith film, Freestyle has Arista APHS and Ultrafineonline.com has a .007" thick lith film pretty cheaply, you can shoot 8x10 for around $.50 a sheet (see http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulorlifi8x103.html). A few good low contrast developers exist, both Dave Soemarko's LC1 and Jim Galli have some easily mixed developers that work wonders.


LC1 Page mirror at my website (http://www.eriepatsellis.com/LC1.htm)

Jim's Rodinal Formula (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/FreestyleAPHS/DevelopingAPHSwRodinal.html)

drew.saunders
17-Sep-2008, 10:51
It's funny, when the thread started and the term corinthian was used, the first name that came to my mind was Jim Galli. :)

Alas, for me, the first name that comes to mind is Ricardo Montalban, and "Corinthian Leather." Apologies to all those who now have old TV commercials stuck in their heads for the rest of the day.

Jim Noel
17-Sep-2008, 13:16
If you want cheap-
The only film I use for testing lenses, and often just to have fun, is Lith style film from Freestyle, APH or APHS. It is by far the cheapest film available and development in D-23 or LC-1 produces a beautiful long scale negative. It is almost grainless and extremely sharp. Jim Galli uses an adaption of Rodinal with this film with beautiful results.

ic-racer
17-Sep-2008, 20:29
My impression has been that 8x10 is a format that has such a huge variation in equipment pricing, that if one knows where to look , you can get 8x10 cheaper than 35mm, MF or 4x5. Actually, it is the dream of inexpensive equipment that lured me into 8x10!

$5 camera, $124 lens, $500 enlarger compares favorably with my recent 6x9 Horseman outfit ($1500) and 4x5 Horseman outfit ($1300).

j.e.simmons
18-Sep-2008, 10:25
The Arkay version of the Calumet C-1 bought for $200, a triple convertible Rapid Rectilinear lens bought on eBay for $15.50, lens board homemade from plywood, already had a tripod. I use Pyrocat PC mixed in glycol so there's no waste, water for stop. I was given a case of TMX that expired in 1996. I print on albumen that I can make for $.47 a sheet including processing.

Corinthian is too high-falutin' for me. I prefer cheap.
juan

ic-racer
18-Sep-2008, 15:04
Based on this we can define the "Corinthian Index."

It is your LINES/MILLIMETER (in an 8x10 print, disregarding paper resolution) divided by DOLLARS SPENT on the camera/lens/enlarger. The higher the better.

60 l/mm (Symmar-S, Center F16, contact print) divided by $200 (cost of lens and camera)

So, for 8x10, to contact print my Corinthian Index is 0.3.

For 4x5 its 60 l/mm (Fuji 150, f11 center)/2x enlargement = 30 l/mm divided by $1500 camera&lens + $1000 enlarger&lens. This would give 0.012! Not so good!