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evan clarke
11-Sep-2008, 09:27
It seems that all that is posted lately is lounge and for sale. Is LF photography dead??..Evan Clarke

Ralph Barker
11-Sep-2008, 09:32
No, it only seems that way if one spends time in The Lounge. ;)

Vaughn
11-Sep-2008, 09:34
Make that a lot of posting in Lounge, For Sale, and posts complaining about all the postings in Lounge, and For Sale.:p

I'll be using the 8x10 this week-end, and also giving a talk on Carbon printing in Newport, Oregon for regional members of APUG. So it aint dead yet;)

Vaughn

Kirk Gittings
11-Sep-2008, 09:37
I agree. Though, if you actually look at the seeming plethora of lounge threads/posts, it is really an ongoing discussion amongst only about 6 people. Like Alaska it covers allot of territory but has a tiny population.;)

cyrus
11-Sep-2008, 09:46
Well, at some point, all possible LF issues will have been discussed, right?

David A. Goldfarb
11-Sep-2008, 09:53
I have the Lounge on ignore, and there still seem to be interesting things discussed here. Maybe if you turn off the lounge, it won't seem like it's overwhelming everything else.

Click on "My Settings" then "Edit Options" and scroll down to choose the forums you would like to exclude from view.

Nathan Potter
11-Sep-2008, 09:56
Evan, I hope not. Maybe a lot of LF photographers are out in the field seeking out images. I know I am here in Austin. Just discovered a great image two miles from my house. An icon of old Austin and Texas - a multicolored old pickup parked beside an old wooden water tower both backed by a chinaberry tree which will turn brilliant yellow come late October.

Nate Potter

Ash
11-Sep-2008, 10:01
I put the lounge on ignore a few days ago when I realised that I am actually not at all fussed about the US elections, considering I live on a tiny island that isn't governed by said country (at least we pretend we aren't).


Seems to still be some threads going on. I've not shot much LF recently, but I keep up to date with the posts out of interest. If I've still got interest in something, it can't be dead - I'm no necrophiliac.

Richard M. Coda
11-Sep-2008, 10:03
I have the Lounge on ignore, and there still seem to be interesting things discussed here. Maybe if you turn off the lounge, it won't seem like it's overwhelming everything else.

Click on "My Settings" then "Edit Options" and scroll down to choose the forums you would like to exclude from view.

Thanks David for the tip. So glad I don't have to read, or get tempted to participate in that forum anymore.

evan clarke
11-Sep-2008, 10:25
I have the Lounge on ignore, and there still seem to be interesting things discussed here. Maybe if you turn off the lounge, it won't seem like it's overwhelming everything else.

Click on "My Settings" then "Edit Options" and scroll down to choose the forums you would like to exclude from view.

Thanks, I was looking for it and didn't see it...EC

jetcode
11-Sep-2008, 10:34
Considering the enormous amount of subject matter previously discussed by this community it appears that there is very little that has yet to be explored.

The election on the other hand is a current event and in it's peak phase.

wfwhitaker
11-Sep-2008, 10:37
Well, at some point, all possible LF issues will have been discussed, right?

And at some point, all possible photographs will have been made.

Toyon
11-Sep-2008, 10:39
And at some point, all possible photographs will have been made.
Wow. Dry wit is definitely not dead.

Terence McDonagh
11-Sep-2008, 10:40
In my case, the weather is only just now getting cool enough to go out and shoot comfortably again. NYC summers are a tad ugly to be under a dark-cloth, or lugging heavy equipment.

And I like arguing for the sake of arguing, so I've started throwing a few rocks in the Lounge. Keeps the entertainment value up when you get someone good and riled.

Kevin Crisp
11-Sep-2008, 10:40
People might have been numbed into silence by the waterfall thread.

Anupam
11-Sep-2008, 10:49
Members are busy with their secret lives - slugging it out between the D700 and the new 24mp Sony you-know-where. But without is-my-kit-zoom-better-than-yours questions to mull over, it is surprising that we have things left to discuss at all.

Eric Biggerstaff
11-Sep-2008, 11:02
I hate the lounge and wish it were removed as I think it can reflect poorly on this site and it's members. I have noticed that when feathers get ruffled in the lounge, the bad feelings can spread over to here.

I don't post a much as I once did but I do keep my eye on the site to see what is going on. This site is a valuable source for information, learning, teaching and inspiration that should be taken care of by the members and moderators. At times there are not many posts that are very interesting, but at other times there are many so perhaps we are just in a down turn at the moment.

The Dread Pirate Robins
11-Sep-2008, 11:22
Thanks for the tips on how to take the lounge out of my normal view. I did that.

Now... is anyone taking photos?

Steve Feldman
11-Sep-2008, 12:04
Nathan,

Please ship pickup truck, wooden water tower and chinaberry tree to me in Van Nuys, CA. Gotta go to Bodie for images like that.

~S.

Rob_5419
11-Sep-2008, 12:27
I agree. Though, if you actually look at the seeming plethora of lounge threads/posts, it is really an ongoing discussion amongst only about 6 people. Like Alaska it covers allot of territory but has a tiny population.;)


Not been around much lately due to health issues.

Reading a post like this is hilarious. Makes me think it's worthwhile popping still.

Thanks Kirk :)

Hector.Navarro
11-Sep-2008, 13:28
It seems that all that is posted lately is lounge and for sale. Is LF photography dead??..Evan Clarke

dead? not for me Evan. I do not post a lot, but this one is my main forum and check it everyday. I almost never read the lounge and for sale forums...

Vaughn
11-Sep-2008, 16:07
Thanks for the info about ignoring the Lounge -- for now, anyway, I have it on ignore...though I doubt that I can refrain from checking in on it occasionally.

Vaughn

David A. Goldfarb
11-Sep-2008, 16:35
Eventually, you'll forget it's even there, and you won't miss it.

Ken Lee
11-Sep-2008, 16:54
"Eventually, you'll forget it's even there, and you won't miss it".

I forgot it was there, but I just had a peek - and man, am I glad I block it !

I too would prefer to associate with a forum where such discussion is disallowed entirely - so that it doesn't have to be blocked.

Surely there must be many other public venues for discussion of subjects not only unrelated to Large Format Photography, but Photography itself.

Merg Ross
11-Sep-2008, 17:31
I have had the lounge on ignore for several years. However this thread caused me to have a peek. What I discovered was, that some of the folks who used to make helpful contributions related to large format photography, are now living in the lounge. That is their choice, but I think the forum suffers from their abscence.

Brian Ellis
11-Sep-2008, 18:14
Thanks David for the tip. So glad I don't have to read, or get tempted to participate in that forum anymore.

What could possibly tempt you to read anything in the Lounge? I turned it off within the first month it became available. Even in that short a time it was too disappointing to observe how abysmally ignorant and biased some very fine photographers are about matters unrelated to photography. I really don't even understand why the Lounge exists but that's a question for minds and powers greater than mine.

Brian Ellis
11-Sep-2008, 18:17
People might have been numbed into silence by the waterfall thread.

ROTFLMAO

Brian Ellis
11-Sep-2008, 18:19
Thanks for the tips on how to take the lounge out of my normal view. I did that.

Now... is anyone taking photos?

Want to see my waterfall photographs?

Steve Sherman
11-Sep-2008, 18:20
I have the Lounge on ignore,

Click on "My Settings" then "Edit Options" and scroll down to choose the forums you would like to exclude from view.

Best post I've seen on this forum in weeks! Many thanks

Ralph Barker
11-Sep-2008, 18:25
. . . I really don't even understand why the Lounge exists but that's a question for minds and powers greater than mine.

It exists (as an experiment) because all of that "stuff" used to insinuate itself into discussions in the core forums. There are, however, on-going discussions about the matter among the moderators.

Sal Santamaura
11-Sep-2008, 19:34
What could possibly tempt you to read anything in the Lounge?...Here's how I answered that question in The Lounge this afternoon:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=390345&postcount=35

David A. Goldfarb
11-Sep-2008, 19:52
I think the Lounge is a good thing.

Most relatively public forums need and have a space for people to blow off steam or socialize off topic, otherwise they do it in the main forums, unless the forums are heavily policed, and I don't think the volunteer moderators here have the time to do that kind of surveillance. If you want a photo forum with that kind of monitoring, I recommend this one--

http://www.cpiforum.com/

If all the nonsense is kept in the Lounge, then those of us who aren't interested can simply turn it off.

Frank Petronio
11-Sep-2008, 19:59
I blame the deterioration of the LF Forum on George W. Bush. Had he been a better leader we'd be dancing on mountains of Tri-X and Dektol would be flowing freely from our taps.

Greg Lockrey
11-Sep-2008, 20:06
I blame the deterioration of the LF Forum on George W. Bush. Had he been a better leader we'd be dancing on mountains of Tri-X and Dektol would be flowing freely from our taps.

:D :D :D :D

It started with Carter.

Michael Kadillak
11-Sep-2008, 20:11
It is a shame that a half dozen people that have nothing better to do than continue to use the lounge as quasi therapy and as a place to try to lure people into circular arguments with their miopic views of the world. When any component of a forum (moderated or not) falls victum to nearly zero posts having anything in the world to do with LF photography or the subject of the forum, these individuals should be asked to take their show to the countless blogs where they can be among friends.

Continuing to have to use ignore protocals to not be impacted by the actions of these few people tells me that WE do not want to own this forum in its entirety.

This dialog is completely embarassing and has absolutely no worldly purpose in the world of LF. They absolutely have every right to blab about whatever they want as often as they want. There are many subjects relating to LF photography that could be discussed in the lounge, but if everyone has it on its ignore list it may as well not exist and WHAT HAVE WE COLLECTIVELY ACCOMPLISHED? How can we expect to draw new contributors when this crap is connected to the wagon? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and we all suffer in the final iteration. A polite cease and decist as a first order of business would get this in check and we would never miss them. Hell, it might be doing them a favor to get them back as legitimate contributors of issues relating to LF photography which is the underlying primary objective.

Look at the lounge on APUG and see how things should be. Grow a pair and get these knuckleheads in check or checkmate - at their chosing.

We have already lost marvelous contributors like Sandy King from this forum for obvious reasons. It has got to stop.

Cheers!

Brian Ellis
11-Sep-2008, 20:12
It exists (as an experiment) because all of that "stuff" used to insinuate itself into discussions in the core forums. There are, however, on-going discussions about the matter among the moderators.

This forum seems to be pretty well policed by the moderators, I've seen any number of threads stopped and messages deleted over the years. It seems to me that anyone who wants to engage in the kind of mud slinging that went on in the Lounge last time I was there (which admittedly was a long time ago but from other messages here it doesn't sound like it's changed) can find plenty of blogs, forums, and other places in which to do it. I think it's out of place on a moderated photography forum and I think its presence demeans the entire forum.

The Dread Pirate Robins
11-Sep-2008, 20:16
Want to see my waterfall photographs?

I am game. URL?

Merg Ross
11-Sep-2008, 20:43
This forum seems to be pretty well policed by the moderators, I've seen any number of threads stopped and messages deleted over the years. It seems to me that anyone who wants to engage in the kind of mud slinging that went on in the Lounge last time I was there (which admittedly was a long time ago but from other messages here it doesn't sound like it's changed) can find plenty of blogs, forums, and other places in which to do it. I think it's out of place on a moderated photography forum and I think its presence demeans the entire forum.

I am in complete agreement with Brian.

David A. Goldfarb
11-Sep-2008, 21:02
I don't think most people realize what's involved with moderating a forum while maintaining a sense that people are relatively free to post what they want within reason. If the moderators delete a post, some people will accept it and even apologize for going off topic or violating the rules, but some will complain, write abusive and sometimes threatening e-mails to the moderators and site owners, start new threads about censorship that cause more controversy and discord on the site, and then maybe they'll get banned and then rejoin under an alias and cause more trouble, and get banned again and will rejoin several times before they give up.

I think the moderators here do an excellent job, and an off topic area helps them to do it.

Frank Petronio
11-Sep-2008, 21:13
Hey I'm all for sh*t-canning the lounge, it's 99% a bunch of stinking liberals anyway and they should be stifled if not shot.

But I just don't understand how the lounge affects you if you don't chose to participate? The few times I've gotten into -- for a few sessions every few months, afterwhich I leave out of exasperation -- I've been there out of my own free will and stupidity.

If you don't like it, just don't go.

I don't know any details about Sandy and the lounge, but I do know Sandy is a good contributor. But if he chooses to get embroiled in some flame war, he's an adult who can make his own decisions. It's easy enough to walk away. If the animosity pours over into the regular forums, then yes, I agree, the offending parties ought to be slapped.

All I know is that when I have been in the lounge I get railed upon by the majority, opinion-wise. But outside the lounge 99% of those same flaming pinkos are sweet as cupcakes to me when it comes to talking about photography.

The last thing we need are censoring APUG-like thought police here (exception to DG, he can't read my mind). If you want this forum to be like APUG, wouldn't it just be easier to go over to APUG?

Michael Kadillak
11-Sep-2008, 21:21
I guess I will take the easy out route and pull the rope on it.

cyrus
11-Sep-2008, 21:48
So, is film photography dead?

JBrunner
11-Sep-2008, 22:13
So, is film photography dead?

"I don't want to go on the cart"

Frank Petronio
11-Sep-2008, 22:44
I think LF film photography is far from dead, but it is kind of like Leica film photography -- there is little practical commercial application or desire for it anymore, and there is so much excellent used equipment on the market that the only new items are from boutique type camera builders. The conventional retail market has collapsed (just like it did for Leica -- there are only a handful of stocking dealers left in the largest cities.)

Plus there are so many reviews, instructions, etc. already online, that the only questions we end up posting are really rare and specific issues, like. "What is the size of the flange of a #3 XXX shutter?" and stuff like that.

Or maybe "art" questions but those threads always blow up.

Bruce Barlow
12-Sep-2008, 03:51
Dead? Then maybe I am, too, and haven't noticed it. In the meantime, my ghost is making a lot of images, printing on Azo, buying Lodima, and angry about ten sheet boxes of Kodak 8x10 film. There has been a recent run on Richard Ritter's ULF camera video, and my book continues to find buyers.

So it doesn't feel like dead.

But I did have lunch with Elvis yesterday...

eddie
12-Sep-2008, 04:28
i will have to admit to being sucked into the lounge a few times....no big deal. i can resist it EVEN without blocking it!

funny thing i see here is that this thread seems like an opportunity to send people into the lounge to see what all the fuss is! even Sal posted a link to his discussion! and that is from a guy who say no to the FS and the lounge....what are you doing in there Sal.....?

all this just makes me wonder.....

i for one am going out to shoot some photos! i need to test some "new to me film" since i can no longer get arista.e.u in 11x14.

eddie

Struan Gray
12-Sep-2008, 04:32
The best way to fill a forum with the sort of posts you like is to write them yourself. Expecting others to entertain you for free is - literally - idle wishfulness.


"I have nothing to say

And I'm saying it."

evan clarke
12-Sep-2008, 05:19
dead? not for me Evan. I do not post a lot, but this one is my main forum and check it everyday. I almost never read the lounge and for sale forums...

Not dead for me either, I will do dry plate, wet plate, salted paper or anything it takes to use my view camera. It seems, though, like the general content has made a shift here and I don't mean digital..EC

jetcode
12-Sep-2008, 06:19
Some here are genuine in their love of photography and LF in particular ... I hope you get your wish for a lounge free forum ...

Others however participate in and resent the lounge because they can't control the outcome and direction of their opinion ... i.e. you get called on your shit as do I ...

If you kill the lounge I will post much less because I have absorbed as much LF as I am interested in at the moment and I am not a fanatic of LF photography as I once was, certainly not more than the love of art and image. The lounge for me is currently more interesting than whining about how manufacturers can't make a living supporting your craft, or digital isn't photography, etc. And why do I want to hear about how great a film which hasn't been available for nearly 20 years was?

If you feel the need to kill my account to secure your vision help yourself ... I received what I came for and I appreciate the contributions that made this so ...

I find it amusing that the person who complains the least is the forum owner.

evan clarke
12-Sep-2008, 07:10
"I have absorbed as much LF as I am interested in at the moment and I am not a fanatic of LF photography as I once was."

That's my question, forum wide, is interest waning, not individually..Evan Clarke

Greg Lockrey
12-Sep-2008, 07:26
That's my question, forum wide, is interest waning, not individually..Evan Clarke

Actually mine has picked up some. Recently got into pinhole, something I haven't done since college, and began studying the carbon process. All because I peruse this forum. Being a commercial printer most photography for me is like work, but "the art" part is getting stimulated once again. But I am known in the Lounge as somewhat of a hell raiser. It helps to pass the time while running my printers as some may know isn't what you would call that mentally challenging. ;)

Deane Johnson
12-Sep-2008, 07:36
I've hung up my LF photography for a number of reasons, but have found this forum to be invaluable even though I no longer own the equipment.

First came the threads on the book publishing which led me to Blurb. That has allowed me to produce to hard cover books (family oriented) that would never have happened without this forum.

Second came the introduction to negative scanning as discussed herein. I plan on acquiring a scanner and get back to looking through my hundreds of LF negatives in the future.

Third, I was able to sell almost all of my LF gear on this site, hopefully getting some nice things into the hands of younger members.

I have nothing but praise for this forum. It is unique in it's style, and serves a major and direct service.

A Lounge on this sort of forum is valuable and useful, but could stand to be shed of some of the endless rabid political discussions that lead absolutely nowhere.

Sal Santamaura
12-Sep-2008, 07:51
...and that is from a guy who say no to the FS and the lounge....what are you doing in there Sal.....?...Click on the link and read my post. It answers your question in detail.


...If you kill the lounge I will post much less because I have absorbed as much LF as I am interested in at the moment and I am not a fanatic of LF photography as I once was...This is the Large Format Photography Forum. Were I the site's owner and you said that to me, my reply would be: "Goodbye; you're welcome back if you ever become interested in the subject of my forum again." Of course, I'm not the owner, Tuan is.

Ernest Purdum
12-Sep-2008, 08:23
I don't enter the Lounge. I'm not interested. I wish I didn't have to be somewhat interested in this dismal presidential race. Perhaps when it's over we can get back to engaging in civil discussion of the topic in which we share interest.

jetcode
12-Sep-2008, 08:37
This thread belongs in the lounge :eek:

Jehu
12-Sep-2008, 08:48
I'm just here to learn. I would like to see the Lounge converted into a "Beginner's learning place"

There are plenty of forums for politics out there if a guy wants to waste time typing out opinions that nobody but him cares about. Join National Write Your Congressman if you want to actually put your opinion where it can make a difference.

I hope LF isn't dead... I just got there! It's alot more fun and rewarding than I thought it would be.

Thanks to those who do the thankless job of moderating this site. I'm glad you're here.

...jmho

jetcode
12-Sep-2008, 10:17
This is the Large Format Photography Forum. Were I the site's owner and you said that to me, my reply would be: "Goodbye; you're welcome back if you ever become interested in the subject of my forum again." Of course, I'm not the owner, Tuan is.

I find it amusing that the person who complains the least is the forum owner.

Jim Rice
12-Sep-2008, 10:34
Alas, I haven't been posting as much lately because I'm neck-deep into learning how to combine FP-4+, Pyrocat HD, Azo and Amidol to create something I'm not embarrassed by.

j.e.simmons
12-Sep-2008, 11:34
Well, at some point, all possible LF issues will have been discussed, right?

You would think so, but I seem to find a new way to make a mistake every time I go out shooting.
juan

evan clarke
12-Sep-2008, 14:15
This thread belongs in the lounge :eek:

Yep, I regret it now...Evan Clarke

eddie
12-Sep-2008, 14:30
Click on the link and read my post. It answers your question in detail.



sorry i do not go to the lounge anymore....but thanks for the bait......


This thread belongs in the lounge :eek:

maybe so.

Hector.Navarro
12-Sep-2008, 14:33
I think the Lounge is a good thing.

Most relatively public forums need and have a space for people to blow off steam or socialize off topic, otherwise they do it in the main forums, unless the forums are heavily policed, and I don't think the volunteer moderators here have the time to do that kind of surveillance. If you want a photo forum with that kind of monitoring, I recommend this one--

http://www.cpiforum.com/

If all the nonsense is kept in the Lounge, then those of us who aren't interested can simply turn it off.

Totally agree with you David. There has to be space for off topic.
I stay away from the dark side... :-)

IanG
12-Sep-2008, 14:38
Yes the Lounge is valuable & fun :D

But hearing US members harangue each other over politics is pathetic. It's extremely interesting what the world outside the US thinks about it all.

Ian

jetcode
12-Sep-2008, 14:57
Yep, I regret it now...Evan Clarke

I have a lot more latitude about what takes place here, others don't ... I find the LF content section ebbs and flows, high and dry, in cycles like the seasons ...

Sal Santamaura
12-Sep-2008, 18:44
sorry i do not go to the lounge anymore....but thanks for the bait...It wasn't bait, it was a link to a single post by me that answered your question. OK, if you're afraid to peek in that category, here it is for you, verbatim, in this thread:


As I recently posted in response to a question about the Unified View, my home page is a search that returns all posts for the last 30 days. It looks just like the LF Forum did before transitioning to vBulletin commercial software. I like it that way. Even though I argued against including these two categories, I want to know what's being said in them.

I read the lounge because it reveals the character of those posting there. While no great expert or authority, my decision whether or not to assist members of this community outside The Lounge is influenced by their character. There are those who have demonstrated in The Lounge that they're not worth a single keystroke in other LF Photography Forum categories. As to why I participate in The Lounge, please re-read what I posted above.


"I've only started participating -- lightly -- in The Lounge recently for the sake of lurkers...I decided that falsehoods need correction so innocent bystanders won't be lead astray by them."

I was and remain opposed to a "For Sale" category because there's no need for it here. Thanks to our benefactor, no revenue is required to sustain the site and none is generated by "For Sale" postings. The less commercial a forum such as this one can be, the better. Posts made in other categories can and sometimes do serve to enhance posters' commerce in "For Sale" listings. The conflict is not always obvious, especially to new visitors. I'd rather that marketing take place at dedicated venues and this community restrict itself to the sharing of information and experiences.

I've stated these opinions before, as a search of the archive will demonstrate. Decision of the owner remains final.

Hany Aziz
12-Sep-2008, 19:01
It seems that all that is posted lately is lounge and for sale. Is LF photography dead??..Evan Clarke

Sorry, but it does seem slow. The lenses forum has not had a "which focal length for 4x5" thread in a couple of weeks to which I would have jumped in "135 mm". All the site forums seem slow. I don't generally venture into the lounge. Maybe I should?:confused:

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

Brian_A
12-Sep-2008, 21:33
I don't generally venture into the lounge. Maybe I should?:confused:


Unless you like politics and are a democrat, I'd keep up with your current trend of staying out of it. I'm not really goin back in there much anymore because it's not worth my time. Sick of the arguments.

-Brian

Jim Graves
12-Sep-2008, 22:46
The Lounge is an interesting drop-by once in awhile but with it being an election year ... and an exceedingly different one at that ... it's going to get weird until November ... and probably a little beyond.

goamules
13-Sep-2008, 06:15
I've been doing LF (in wetplate collodion) for about one year, and it's been the best recent experience of my life. Much of what I've learned and who I've socialized has been on forums like this one. It's been great and I've learned a lot about the topic and some really nice people.

I took one look at a topic of interest in the lounge a month ago. Turns out to be an antigun rant full of wild acusations, belittlement, anger, etc. I don't have to set "ignore", I just do it. Why do I need to add stress and negative emotions to my life?

weasel
13-Sep-2008, 10:05
There is lots of good info on the site, but like most things it ebbs and flows. Most of the stuff posted is not "new' info, but various incarnations of the same stuff. It is the same with any forum or publication for that matter, that is subject specific.
Example- I do a fair amount of woodworking. I used to subscribe to Fine Woodworking magazine. I think it is the best of the publications on the subject. But after a while, there gets to be only so many times you can read about the best way to tune a bedrock plane. Now, unless there is a very specific article I want, I don't buy it.
I think the same thing happens here. A lot of the same info gets rehashed in various forms, but it is still the same info. Unless it is info you are looking for, it will not draw your interest.
As to the lounge- if it bothers you, don't go there; it is not required reading for anyone.

Jim Noel
14-Sep-2008, 09:29
I don't read,and am not tempted by the Lounge. It is not necessary for me to place it under "Ignore".
I look in the left column briefly to see if there happens to be an itme for sal in which I am interested. Otherwise I don't open that section either.

sanking
18-Oct-2008, 00:51
I don't want to make this about me but since my name has been brought up perhaps some clarification is in order.

First, I am delighted that the lounge has bee eliminated. I regret participating in the discussions there, not because I shy from pointed discussions but because the norm in the lounge was a lack of respect by some for the political opinions of others. This is not 100% of course. Some of the people who contributed to the lounge were very respectful of differences of opinion. And a major point was touched by Sal Santamaura, when he wrote: "While no great expert or authority, my decision whether or not to assist members of this community outside The Lounge is influenced by their character. There are those who have demonstrated in The Lounge that they're not worth a single keystroke in other LF Photography Forum categories."

Second, I am still a member of the LF forum and have not made a conscious decision to not participate here in the future. But for the time being, and for a variety of reasons, including travel (I just returned from a month of travel in southwest and central China), workshops and other personal commitments, I have decided to curtail my responses on the LF forum. That said, now that the Lounge has been eliminated I am definitely more inclined to renew my participation here.

Sandy King














Hey I'm all for sh*t-canning the lounge, it's 99% a bunch of stinking liberals anyway and they should be stifled if not shot.

But I just don't understand how the lounge affects you if you don't chose to participate? The few times I've gotten into -- for a few sessions every few months, afterwhich I leave out of exasperation -- I've been there out of my own free will and stupidity.

If you don't like it, just don't go.

I don't know any details about Sandy and the lounge, but I do know Sandy is a good contributor. But if he chooses to get embroiled in some flame war, he's an adult who can make his own decisions. It's easy enough to walk away. If the animosity pours over into the regular forums, then yes, I agree, the offending parties ought to be slapped.

All I know is that when I have been in the lounge I get railed upon by the majority, opinion-wise. But outside the lounge 99% of those same flaming pinkos are sweet as cupcakes to me when it comes to talking about photography.

The last thing we need are censoring APUG-like thought police here (exception to DG, he can't read my mind). If you want this forum to be like APUG, wouldn't it just be easier to go over to APUG?

sanking
18-Oct-2008, 05:17
Sorry. I do understand that the action taken was to ban discussion of religion and politics, not to eliminate the lounge.

Sandy








First, I am delighted that the lounge has bee eliminated.

Sandy King

Craig Roberts
18-Oct-2008, 17:26
I joined LF Photography just for the discourse on LF photography, not social discussions. I don’t go to the lounge.
I spend most of my non-work time making images/prints, not “chatting on-line” of social issues. There are plenty of places for that.
I do not post very often but I do read many of the threads here. There are some practical, valuable tips from members for large format photography that I have benefited from.
This, however isn’t a new discussion, if you don’t like the lounge, don’t go there. No more complicated than that.
No, LF INFO is not deteriorating – some members are more interested in other agendas.
Craig

kev curry
19-Oct-2008, 04:54
Dear LF Photographers

My name is Kevin and I'm an ex Large Format Loungaholic.

I would like to share my story.

Before the Lounge was finally overhauled I had been desperately searching in vain for a ''Large Format Loungaholic Photographers Anonymous thrice weekly Group Meeting''. But now that the evile drug has been decisively and ruthlessly cut off at source, and following a short enforced period of surprisingly invigorating cold turkey, I can now announce that I have emerged clear eyed, enthusiastic and ready to re-enter the wonderful world of LF photography entirely free from all former cravings, and more surprisingly, endowed with full agreement and respect for the wisdom and foresightedness of ''The Powers That Be'' in there decision making.

All Power to the Powers That Be:D

jnantz
19-Oct-2008, 06:31
I blame the deterioration of the LF Forum on George W. Bush. Had he been a better leader we'd be dancing on mountains of Tri-X and Dektol would be flowing freely from our taps.

and i thought it was:

"A beautiful home in the country, upstairs and down.
Beer flowing through the estate over your grandmother's paisley shawl."


http://www.filmsite.org/bank2.html

thanks frank! :)

john

John Kasaian
19-Oct-2008, 13:24
The lounge is sort of like the candy dish of colorful M&Ms my bride keeps by the front door. I know I shouldn't eat any...but it's right there and in the way!
I just shouldn't go there.
Of course there are ancillary subjects that are interesting to delve into which might not be suitable under any of the other headings....is a palatable cheap wine considered "gear?" Is a search for a good breakfast burrito on a road trip to photograph the Grand Canyon rightfully belong under "Travel and location" or is it a "Resource?"

Michael Graves
19-Oct-2008, 13:34
And at some point, all possible photographs will have been made.

Theoretically, that's impossible. One could approach the same marble from a nearly infinite number of angles in all directions, move over a fraction of an inch and repeat the process, move back a bit and repeat, change lenses and repeat.....you get the idea. As long as there are different eyes seeing and a myriad of subjects to see, photography has no reason to roll over and play dead.

Ron Marshall
19-Oct-2008, 18:18
Theoretically, that's impossible. One could approach the same marble from a nearly infinite number of angles in all directions, move over a fraction of an inch and repeat the process, move back a bit and repeat, change lenses and repeat.....you get the idea. As long as there are different eyes seeing and a myriad of subjects to see, photography has no reason to roll over and play dead.

Also, there are still portraits to be made of persons yet to be born!

Struan Gray
20-Oct-2008, 01:30
"A beautiful home in the country, upstairs and down.
Beer flowing through the estate over your grandmother's paisley shawl."





In the Big Film Candy Mountains you never have to spot
And little streams of amidol come a-trickling down the rocks
The collectors all love sunsets and the critics have rose specs
55's still made, and six Azo grades
In the Big Film Candy Mountains


Pass the moonshine....

Gary L. Quay
12-Nov-2008, 23:50
Thanks for the tips on how to take the lounge out of my normal view. I did that.

Now... is anyone taking photos?

Yes. I was on Hawthorne BLVD on Monday photographing a rain-soaked Badgad Theater at 2:00AM with my 8x10 Eastman Kodak while standing under the awning of Powell's Books Home and Garden. I took one shot only, and developed it in Pyrocat-HD.

LFinfo, by the way, is still the best resource around. There is quite the backlog of info here. I use the search function before I post questions, so I don't have to post that often. Usually, I don't even have to answer questions, because someone has already said what I wanted to say. The lull in postings is likely due to the sites's success in providing answers.

As for the lounge: I visited it for about a week, and lost interest.

cjbroadbent
13-Nov-2008, 01:51
.....LFinfo, by the way, is still the best resource around. There is quite the backlog of info here. I use the search function before I post questions, so I don't have to post that often. Usually, I don't even have to answer questions, because someone has already said what I wanted to say. The lull in postings is likely due to the sites's success in providing answers......
I second that.

john borrelli
19-Nov-2008, 23:00
I actually think the forum has picked up in the last several months.

I love all the Post your(photographs) threads that forum members keep posting to. Great stuff.

On a personal note, I can recall starting a new job many years ago. It was one of those jobs on the first day gives you a very bad feeling. I soon met a new colleague who was a fellow photographer. We talked about photography at work or over the phone, after work hours. It kept me going(until I got fired!).

We are not in touch anymore but this forum has become just as informational and important to me(luckily my work situation is better!).

Ofcourse, this is from a guy who started a Lounge thread on Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie and Littman cameras!!

Steve Hamley
3-Dec-2008, 06:35
Merg,

I sort of believed the opposite - LF is booming. Compared to the old Greenspun forum which was really a handful of people, the current LFinfo and APUG forums represent a huge increase in interest over 6 or so years.

The "For Sale" ads may be increasing as a result of eBay and PayPal policies and IMO is good for the forum and the community. But those prices also reflect a tremendous increase in demand. Read an old issue of "View Camera" and check the prices of lenses 5-6 years ago.

There may be periodic downturns based on people's other life activities (personally my job really gets in the way of my photography and hiking activities), but in general the number of new names showing up seems to reflect an increasing interest. Not to mention the emergence of the Chinese community and manufacturers.

Cheers,

Steve

sailbad
15-Jan-2009, 16:20
I'm just a new member but have to say that I've been doing film for 5 years while allmost everyone else was going digital.......not a crowd follower I guess.
I've had a darkroom for this time as well and have no plans on going digital. The prints just sparkle and now that I'm using a 4x5 view camera, well you know the rest, I'm hooked. I also have 4 120 cameras and one of them is a Moskva and produces 6x9 negs and the cam cost 50$ so it's affordable. Many wet darkroom folks are emptying their closets and gear is out there at good/steal prices. Some of my friends are also exploring film with my 120's and tasting ground glass for the first time. Oddly my rangefinder/folder Moskva is the one most frequently borrowed even with it's weird little viewfinder ? I think that B&W large format has taught me alot and the prints are so crisp that others are following me. But they don't have a darkroom so I'm also making their prints and teaching the darkroom Mojo to them at the same time. Black & white done to high standards will allways be in demand and have it's own following & market.

Andrew O'Neill
15-Jan-2009, 20:48
I think that B&W large format has taught me alot and the prints are so crisp that others are following me. But they don't have a darkroom so I'm also making their prints and teaching the darkroom Mojo to them at the same time.

Good for you, man! Keep spreading the Mojo!

jonsmith
17-Jan-2009, 03:27
I don't know because I have been away from the forum for quite a while. I'm still active in LF by my own standards, but am getting selective about it. Last year I only exposed eight negs, and I think printed six of them. This year I've exposed a few more, but it's still the middle of the season. I've decided to knock off in late spring and summer because out here it gets hazy in those months, and the light takes on a harsh quality. I am never quite happy with shots I took in those months.

I go exploring with a Mamiya TLR and go back later to shots I want in LF. I'm being selective not because of film cost, but because of the time and energy wasted taking and processing extra shots and shots I didn't really like anyway. Some trips out I decided I wasn't happy with the scene or the light and packed the camera up and drove home without taking a shot. In the old days I would expose everything I had with me and sort it out later.

So in a way I'm less active, but in a way, not. I'm certainly still interested, and taking better photographs, than before, even with less time devoted to it.

dazedgonebye
17-Jan-2009, 08:02
The most annoying part is all the noobs asking questions about what lens for this or what camera for that!
Oh wait...that was me.

Sorry.

Dan Fromm
17-Jan-2009, 08:45
Um, dazed, if places like this aren't for educating others and sharing hard to find information, what are they for?

Brandon Draper
17-Jan-2009, 08:51
Um, dazed, if places like this aren't for educating others and sharing hard to find information, what are they for?

So true. If LF photography isn't passed on, film will be no longer made.

Then life as we know it will end:eek:

dazedgonebye
20-Jan-2009, 06:33
Um, dazed, if places like this aren't for educating others and sharing hard to find information, what are they for?


So I realize Dan.
I look forward to being able to eventually give back to the forum through my experiences. Perhaps just a decent picture now and again to share.

dperez
22-Jan-2009, 07:58
I don't think it is. I have not been a member that long and am new to LF, so I have been able to ask questions and get involved which has been rewarding in terms of just shortening the learning curve a bit.

-DP

Aahx
30-Jan-2009, 11:45
LF is definatly not dying...It may have been a bit quieter of late. But ebbs and flows throughout the years can and do occur. As for myself I leave up on a tripod in the corner of my studio an old Omegaview. And just it's presence alone has caused enough folks to ask about it that I now have two individuals interested in trying out LF. I will be offering both of them some one on one free instruction to get them started out in the next 6 to 9 months. I will take them out with me on short day trips with a spare field camera/tripod for them to use and try. They just supply the film/fujiroid and I supply equipment. But then again, I love to teach folks. And in the teaching it keeps me refreshed seeing new perspectives of newer photogaphers work. As I always learn from those I teach, I grow better as well. All while bringing more people to LF photography. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

Bruce Watson
30-Jan-2009, 12:52
It seems that all that is posted lately is lounge and for sale. Is LF photography dead??..Evan Clarke

Large format photography is far from dead. This particular forum however seems to be in a lull of sorts. I've been impressed lately by all the newbies who think the forum is about wide format inkjet printers. Five minutes of reading would inform them of the real purpose, but I suppose some people can't be bothered to go that far. Sigh...

I have a couple of theories to explain the lull of new threads that are actually about large format photography. Both may well be wrong, but that's how theories work -- you postulate and explanation for the available data, and when new data shows up that doesn't fit the theory, you change the theory. Welcome to Science. :D

First theory is the economy. It costs maybe $1.50 USD / sheet to shoot and process 5x4 B&W film. Maybe $4.00 USD / sheet to shoot and process color film. In a poor economy, people pull back their discretionary spending, and therefore will be less active in LF photography. Less activity -> less questions about the activity.

Second theory is the natural ebb and flow. As newbies join they ask a lot of questions. As they learn they ask fewer questions and answer some. When they get really good, they would rather spend more time photographing and less time answering questions, and they aren't asking much in the way of new questions themselves. It's an expensive pursuit, and not many people are making the commitment right now. Fewer newbies = fewer questions.

What's the real cause? We may never know. But you aren't alone in feeling the way you do.

rvhalejr
31-Jan-2009, 15:53
... This particular forum however seems to be in a lull of sorts.

It may arguably be evolving .,.

TECHNICAL
Re: 4x5 Ultra Fine Focusing and Calibration
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=433823#post433823

Re:Top-end digital concerns
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=429579

Re: The hopeful future of film photography
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=431317


ARTISTIC
Re: Large Format Landscapes
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=435022

Re: Jan. portraits (controversy in art)
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=435255#post435255

Re: Moving Water
...largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=429058




First theory is the economy. It costs maybe $1.50 USD / sheet to shoot and process 5x4 B&W film. Maybe $4.00 USD / sheet to shoot and process color film. In a poor economy, people pull back their discretionary spending, and therefore will be less active in LF photography. Less activity -> less questions about the activity.

Second theory is the natural ebb and flow. As newbies join they ask a lot of questions. As they learn they ask fewer questions and answer some. When they get really good, they would rather spend more time photographing and less time answering questions, and they aren't asking much in the way of new questions themselves. It's an expensive pursuit, and not many people are making the commitment right now. Fewer newbies = fewer questions.


Amen.



What's the real cause? We may never know. But you aren't alone in feeling the way you do.

Some feel the need to restore science and the arts to their rightful place.

So why not use every bit of technical and artistic talent available, take the best of B&W, E6, C41, perhaps integrate with digital and try to improve the discipline(s) (technical, artistic and/or general understanding thereof ) and hopefully make life richer in some small way.

Mike V
1-Feb-2009, 16:15
Im a newb myself and find it interesting to read through all the old posts. Theres a lot to learn with LF, optimum aperture, film processing, alternative processes, etc...

I enjoy reading the articles and following the discussions found here. If I have any questions I will ask but I wont expect a reply straight away as sadly it does seem a bit quiet around here. :(