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View Full Version : 12 inch Velostigmat II with stuck aperature



goamules
11-Sep-2008, 05:44
You win some you lose some. I've been looking for a velo with the soft focus diffusion for a while, and bid on this one: 270268863193 The warning flags were there that it wasn't soft focus; poor pictures, evasive answers to the question. But I decided to take a chance anyway and bid and won. The lens arrived and is not the soft focus version. I also find the aperature is stuck solid at about f32. Useful. And the front glass is a little hazy.

I've had a couple emails with the seller, who is convinced it is soft focus "you should check cameraeccentric, all 12 inch are...." and that describing "could use a cleaning" was code words for "broken aperature". Or something. FWIW.

I'll fix the iris myself and try to clean it up. I have never left a bad feedback, and am still considering what to do. Was the guy confused? He just sold a $400 Celor that he really talked up too.

Pat Hilander
11-Sep-2008, 07:37
Nah, he wasn't confused–just being a shady seller. Ask the guy for a refund and if he refuses leave bad feedback. Sellers can no longer leave bad feedback on a buyer after receiving it, so you don't have to worry about getting bad feedback in return.

Velos without the fuzz-o-later are still nice lenses though, so give it a shot when you get the aperture unstuck. As for that make sure the blades are metal and then unscrew the glass elements from the front and real. Then try squirting lighter fluid around the ring that moves the iris from the outside of the barrel. you may have to repeat this process several times, but it has worked to get them unstuck for me. Good luck!

John Kasaian
11-Sep-2008, 07:55
"Regular' velostigmat IIs can be very nice lenses and demonstrate nice bokeh when wide open. They certainly aren't worth a great deal of money (underrated IMHO) and not as much as the version with the diffusion ring. If you "stole" the lens and can get the aperture unstuck and the front element clean you have a potentially fine lens. OTOH if you paid a fair price for a velostigmat II represented to be "with the ring" then you should get a refund or leave appropriate feed back IMHO.

eddie
11-Sep-2008, 08:17
try and get your money back. leave neg feed back! AND MOST important tellus who he is so we can avoid him!

good luck.

eddie

Toyon
11-Sep-2008, 08:33
Only the early 12" Velostigmats had the diffuser, the seller is wrong. You need to take it up with EBay. Velostigmats with or without diffusing devices are great lenses, but I wouldn't want one with haze. You should be able to disassemble the unit and carefully clean the glass. If you're lucky the haze will come off.

cowanw
11-Sep-2008, 08:48
If it cleans up and the and you get the aperture moving you have a steal at 100 dollars
Let us know what it looks like if you can get the lens apart. The flange is worth money alone.
Regards
Bill

goamules
11-Sep-2008, 10:51
Thanks everyone. I've gotten the aperature working. Still a little tight. I took off the "star" slotted ring that each leaf knob goes into, before I knew what I was doing. There was an anti-epiphany as I thought, "I'll never get all those leaves in the right place again."
But I carefully cleaned everything and got it back in. Still tight but works.

The rear element is crystal clear, inner lens of the front element is clear. But the front lens is hazy with micro-scratches.

Now here comes the awful question: Is there a way to polish the front and get some of these microscratch haze off? I read on another board there is a "last resort" way to do this. I've ground my own back glass, I could whip out the alum oxide...just kidding. But would any gentle polish fix this? I mean, they polished them originally, and I got the time. (Sending back a 100 dollar lens that I paid $16 shipping for is hardly worth it - I might as well try to fix the thing).

W K Longcor
11-Sep-2008, 11:41
Now here comes the awful question: Is there a way to polish the front and get some of these microscratch haze off? I read on another board there is a "last resort" way to do this. .

I once read ( but NEVER tried it) that some guy used tooth paste to polish haze off of a lens. I'm not sure I would experiment even on a hundred dollar lens -- maybe a junker box camera optic.

John Kasaian
11-Sep-2008, 11:52
I was thinking the micro scratches might enhance the softness (if you're after softness) Why not shoot with it first? Then if you want to play around with polishing, theres always Bon Ami!

goamules
11-Sep-2008, 12:17
Good point John, that I realized as I wrote the last about cleaning the haze. Haze=soft, so I guess he was right, it IS a soft-focus! I'll try it out.

c.d.ewen
11-Sep-2008, 13:12
My take is that the seller's not dishonest - just ignorant. He said that the telltale 0-5 numbers were not present, and this should have made you avoid the auction. He hyped the description based on some little knowledge, and he's also naive, as he posted no shipping costs or return policy. With his low number of feedbacks, hitting him with a negative will have a big impact. Let him know you're unhappy, and see if you can get him to reduce the price.

The standard wisdom on scratches is that those on the rear cause softness, while those on the front reduce contrast. Use a lens shade, and don't shoot sunsets.

The best solution for scratches is to send the elements to ARAX for polishing and coating. I wouldn't bother for a Velo.

You say you've ground lenses? Try a pitch lap with cerium oxide (keep it wet!).

Charley

Darren Kruger
11-Sep-2008, 13:34
Could you post a picture of the front part of the lens showing the barrel? Did the lens have some type of shade? The small picture on the auction site looks more like the one I have with diffusion than without and I'm curious to see what the one you have looks like with a better picture.

-Darren

Dan Fromm
11-Sep-2008, 15:29
I once read ( but NEVER tried it) that some guy used tooth paste to polish haze off of a lens. I'm not sure I would experiment even on a hundred dollar lens -- maybe a junker box camera optic.I'm the guy, and my lens didn't have scratches, it had baked-on crud. After the crud came off, I found that it also had micro-scratches that the crud had been hiding.

Before doing something as violent as using, e.g., toothpaste to remove crud, try the toothpaste out on a soft piece of glass to check whether the abrasive will scratch. If I'd had more sense I'd have used baking soda instead of toothpaste.

If I were the OP, I'd have demanded a refund including postage both ways and have left bad feedback.

Dan Fromm
11-Sep-2008, 15:33
<snip>

The standard wisdom on scratches is that those on the rear cause softness, while those on the front reduce contrast. Use a lens shade, and don't shoot sunsets.

<snip>

CharleyCharley, sometimes the standard wisdom is right and sometimes it is horribly wrong. I have in hand an 80/2.8 Xenotar and a 210/5.6 Zircon whose front surfaces have the classic "cleaned with steel wool" appearance.

The Xenotar is soft and flary. The Zircon is sharp and contrasty, shoots about as well as my 210/7.7 Beryl S, i.e., better than well enough.

Both lenses' inner and rear surfaces are fine.

Cheers,

Dan

goamules
11-Sep-2008, 17:06
Here's a couple pics. The outside is a weird grey, I think just oxidised aluminum. The two lenses in the front element are separateable, but I don't see how this fixture would allow adjustments. The back lens just drops in, and is held by a bezal.

I don't think I'll try to polish, seems too unlikely. As for the seller, I've tried another round, asking "why didn't you mention the stuck aperature? Why did you say there are no scratches?" etc. No answer. I think if he doesn't at least appologize, he's getting at least a neutral. He needs to learn customer service and accurate descriptions. If he offers to refund, I may do that and give better feedback. He's no dummy, he knows what the iris is and could see the MILLIONS of tiny scratches if he held it up to a light.

Ok...going for some low contrast shots.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3107/2848960883_ed8101f42d.jpg

cowanw
11-Sep-2008, 18:24
I don't have a horse in the race but the lens only cost 100 dollars. Perfect 12 inch Velo ll's cost more than that. We all want to score the deal of the century; but I think you did OK and I think you will find the lens will be a nice shooter.
Regards
Bill

wfwhitaker
11-Sep-2008, 18:40
Still there's no excuse for false and/or misleading claims. Having been at the short end of the stick myself on two lens deals in a row, yours is just more fuel for the fire.

Toyon
11-Sep-2008, 21:04
Their is a guy who polishes lenses professionally. www.focalpointlens.com.

goamules
1-Mar-2009, 07:28
Warning, after I sold this lens (disclosing the scratches), the buyer has relisted it. And no mention of the scratches..... This must be the classic hot potato lens, but I don't want anyone else burned. I thought a buyer would be a photographer, not a flipper.... On Ohboy for 3 more days.

Alex Wei
2-Mar-2009, 15:58
I have a ektar lens with micro-scratches all over the front element, the rear cell is clean. It give me a wonderful soft image yet sharp, I like it very much, you may give it a try to see what kind of image you get, it might surprise you.

Alex Wei
2-Mar-2009, 16:01
oops, guess you didn't like it. I didn't see the second page before I post. Time to take a nap :)

eddie
2-Mar-2009, 19:55
Warning, after I sold this lens (disclosing the scratches), the buyer has relisted it. And no mention of the scratches..... This must be the classic hot potato lens, but I don't want anyone else burned. I thought a buyer would be a photographer, not a flipper.... On Ohboy for 3 more days.

is it this lens? 270350148479

if so this seller is an A$$hole! i e mailed him a simple suggestion (my bad for offering unsolicited advice!) of not polishing all the brass lenses. his response was arrogant, aggressive, rude and threatening! he has been buying all kinds of junk and reselling them. most at crazy cia-love-animal style prices! he is a dirt bag for sure.

check out these. one he bought one he is selling.:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200306152761

then he is selling this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270349111543

you should e mail him about the scratches....i will....:)

eddie
2-Mar-2009, 19:58
i could not resist....my e bay question to him...:

what about all the scratches on the front element?!?!!?

we know! we see you! mr. dishonest.

you give e bay a bad name!

goamules
2-Mar-2009, 20:35
Yep Eddie, that's my old lens. I had a friend email him about it asking specificially "Why is the front hazy, are there any scratches, even micro cleaning ones?" His answer, "No scratches that I can see, the photography lighting is causing the hazy look." That's a good one, anyone would see the scratches. And he didn't post the question in the ad, I notice. Whoever gets the lens is going to be sore, it was extremely scratched. I even hesitated selling it, but decided with full disclosure it would be ok, but I'd still risk a bad feedback. Interestingly, I still haven't gotten a feedback for that wollensak sale from him.

You're research on the two "before & after" lenses is telling; I figured he had to be radically polishing them, after most of his brass ones looked the same. Good move, I guess, but .....

His feedback shouldn't last long, pulling these stunts. But good to watch out for.

eddie
2-Mar-2009, 21:33
yup i asked about the scratches on the lens and this was the response:

"
If you don't quite harassing us, we will report you to eBay. My
husband
and I run this business together. There is not one
scratch on this glass.
Quit contacting us or we will report you,
and quit intentionally trying
to cause problems with our honest
business. You are attacking our
character, which we take very
seriously--it is the backbone of our
business. Find somebody
else to harass. Like my husband said to you
previously, pay
attention to your own obviously empty life.

-calkovsky"

followed by:

"We feel sorry for you. You have a empty life. You look for
problems. You
have nothing better to do than cause problems
with other people. You are
not a nice person and you are not
welcome in our HONEST business. Mr 76
transactions, we have
376 with Perfect feed back. You can look at our
items but are
not allowed to bid. You cause problems here and we won't
take
it. Believe me. One more E-mail from you and we will report you.

Go away and find true happiness with Jesus Christ."


all started over a simple innocent e mail. the husband got extremely aggressive and insulting....he even mildly threatened me!

oh well.....all in a day on e bay.

OH! and his 100% feed back comes from mostly buying from the same few sellers.....like maybe their friends......?

Bruce Schultz
3-Mar-2009, 08:45
I've looked at some of his items and wondered about them. Now I will no longer wonder.

Jim Graves
4-Mar-2009, 22:27
THE REST OF THE STORY ... I was the only bidder on the recent ebay re-auction of this lens ... it ended today with me the winner at $99. The seller, Rudi, has agreed to cancel the invoice and re-list the lens with an explanation of the OP's concerns.

I did not discover the issues with this auction until I read this thread and checked the auction number in one of the posts and found that I had already bid on the lens.

Long story short, I contacted Garrett (the OP) to ensure I was bidding on the same lens. Then I contacted the latest ebay seller. I also reviewed the sellers 300+ feedback from sellers/buyers and reviewed the items in the feedback and the 108 items (mostly photography related) the seller currently has for sale on ebay. I also noted that the seller had 100% positive feedback on 359 transactions to date and had only been a member of ebay since Dec. 6, 2008 ... less than 3 months. I even looked at as many of those positive feedbacks as I could to try to determine if the seller was trying to stack the feedback with cheesy, cheap purchases or if they were legitimate comments on the seller.

I can only say that I am satisfied, after two lengthy conversations with the seller and email exchanges with the OP ... that the seller is legitimate ... and I even have a bid on another of his pending auctions.

goamules
5-Mar-2009, 13:04
I can also say that after talking to the seller on the phone, he's reasonable and willing to go the extra mile to make sure his products are represented fairly. He impressed me as a seller that likes the antique nature of old cameras, but is still learning the idiosyncrasies of what actual users are looking for. He’s very willing to discover those qualities as with this lens in question, and is polite and friendly.

Steve M Hostetter
5-Mar-2009, 13:24
goam ,, you can send it back,,, Jack's camera has a 8 3/4" Verio in linhof mt for 889.00 they will deal