Graflex and Graphic serial numbers

[RichSBV]

Just thought some people might be interested.

The "not the serial number book but" list of Graflex and Graphic serial numbers is now available to view, comment and expand on the Graflexchange. A direct link is:

http://www.southbristolviews.com/graflexchange/index.php

I'm not sure what happened on graflex.org with this, but it's now available again...

[IanG]

I found the serial number listing on the Graflex.org site quite easily and found the date of manufacture for 2 of Graphics. It is useful to have a resource for buying/selling Gralflex parts etc a sadly lacking feature of Graflex.org.

Ian

[RichSBV]

Ian, when did you last look up a serial number over there? As of August, they removed the serial number section of the forum. Seems to be some bruised ego problems, or maybe a power struggle? Don't really care as the serial number and "book" problem will be resolved one way or the other...

The Graflexchange was started quite a while ago for the very reason that graflex.org did not allow and form of wanted/sales posts. It's sorely under-used though as most people seem to be more interested in making money on the auction site than helping other Graflex users... It has helped a few though.

[IanG]

I seem to remember the Serial no's being in a Forum thread. I copied them along with Schneider, Rodenstock & Zeiss serial no's from somewhere else into an Open Office document for quick reference.

When I made a request for help finding parts on the Graflex.org site I got abuse from a few members, but not the site organisers (who defended my right to post) as I hadn't mentioned money or payment. That seemed stupid as surely the Graflex.org site is about helping each other.

In many ways it's a pity that they have made it necessary the need for a site such as yours, which I'm sure will become more useful in the future.

Ian

[Toyon]

My Autograflex is not on it, its in the 4,000's.

[RichSBV]

A "4,000's" Autograflex would be in the neighborhood of 1926 or a bit later...

I'm working on making the entire book available but we'll see where that goes as the actual owner of the "book" is no longer with us. I never could understand why folks at graflex.org tried so hard to prevent anyone from seeing the book?

If anyone has serial number questions about their cameras, I will do my best to answer them over at the Graflexchange...

[Toyon]

A "4,000's" Autograflex would be in the neighborhood of 1926 or a bit later...

I'm working on making the entire book available but we'll see where that goes as the actual owner of the "book" is no longer with us. I never could understand why folks at graflex.org tried so hard to prevent anyone from seeing the book?

If anyone has serial number questions about their cameras, I will do my best to answer them over at the Graflexchange...

I'm afraid you're off track there. My autograflex has the clamshell top, not the later chimney top. I was told by Fred Lustig that these were on only the earliest Graflexes.

[RichSBV]

You're 100% right and I have no idea how I came about that date?

"the book" only starts at 1915 with serial numbers in the 47xxx range. Just a bit higher than 4000... Sorry about that and there's no way I could possibly date such an early number...

[smithdoor]

Page 2 of 2

476861 – 70mm combat graphic --1956
448826 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1948
448870 – 2x3 pacemaker speed – late 1947
485150 – Graflex View II – 1961 or 1962
449420 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1947
449676 - 2x3 pacemaker speed — late 1947/early 1948
503636 - Century – 1949 -1950
504832 – Century – 1949-1950
505660 – Century --
506802 – Century – late 1949
507248 – Century -- 1949
508311 – Century – 1949 or 1950
508923 – Century -- 1949 or 1950
509011 – Century – 1950
510967 – Century -- 1950
513162 – Century – 1950-1951
517253 – Century -- 1951
523213 – century -- 1954
527202 – Century – early 1960
528296 – Century -- 1961
528734 – Century (F2A) -- 1962
529178 – century – 1962, august
532951 – Century – 5/1965
531994 – Century -- 1963
533833 – Century – 1964
534550 – Century (A7B) -- 1967
535474 – Century – guessed at 1966 or 1967 beyond
535916 – Century (A8A) – 1968
640660 – Super Graphic – 1957 Supers start at s/n 640000
646687 – Super Speed – 1959 or 1960
646731 – Super Speed – 1958
647661 – Super Speed - 1958
648819 – Super speed – 1960
648226 – Super Graphic -- 1960
653715 – Super Speed – 1964
653928 – Super Graphic -- 1964
700583 – Speed -- 1949
700782 – 2x3 pacemaker speed – 1947
702513 – 2x3 pacemaker speed --
702540 – 2x3 pacemaker speed – 1948
702760 – 2x3 pacemaker speed –
706289 – 2x3 pacemaker speed – 1950
708316 – crown --
708752 – crown view --
709934 – 2x3 pacemaker -- fall 1950
710103 – 2x3 crown -- 1950
711643 – 2x3 crown – 1951-1952
714194 – 2x3 pacemaker speed
714427 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1953
714820 – 2x3 crown – 1953
725928 - --
730569 – 2x3 crown -- 1950
731262 – 2x3 crown -- 1950
733153 – 2x3 crown – 1948?
733683 – 2x3 pacemaker speed – 1949?
733964 – 2x3 crown – 1952
751020 – 3x4 pacemaker speed – 1949
751049 – 3x4 anniversary – 1946?
752395 – 3x4 pacemaker speed – 1949
752399 – 3x4 pacemaker speed --
756085 – 3x4 crown -- 1952
757144 - 3x4 crown — late 1952/early 1953
800830 – pacemaker speed – 1949-1950
801176 – 3x4 crown – earliest in book 802602 in 1950
820534 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1948
820986 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1949
821775 – speed --
823460 – pacemaker speed – 1949?
825224 – 4x5 speed – 1949 or 1950
825252 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1949
829099 – pacemaker speed --1948-1949
829350 – 4x5 pacemaker speed, military –1954
830307 - pacemaker speed – 1949?
832222 – pacemaker speed -- 1948?
832434 – speed – 1948-1949
832683 – pacemaker speed – 1949-1949
833035 – pacemaker speed --
836449 – pacemaker speed -- 1949
839610 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1948
841679 - 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1948
842182 – pacemaker speed – 1948
843145 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1948
846237 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1950
846278 – pacemaker speed -- 1950
846346 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1950
847630 - 1950
847678 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1950
852552 – crown – 1950
853070- 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1950
853078 - --
858257 – pacemaker speed – 1950
859543 – Speed, Black – late 1950
860467 – pacemaker speed – late 1950 –early 1951
864199 – pacemaker speed – 1951
864887 – crown – 1952
865971- 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1951
866825 – crown – 1949-1950
867408 – 4x5 crown – late 1952 to early 1953
868468 – pacemaker speed -- 1951
869804 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1951
871786 – crown --
872795 – pacemaker speed -- 1951
873013 – pacemaker speed – 1951
873077 – crown -- 1951
873699 – pacemaker speed -- 1951
873704 – crown -- 1951
875725 – crown – 1952
875719 – speed --
877060 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1952
877143 – crown – 1952
877652 – 4x5 crown – 1952
878302 – 4x5 pacemaker speed --
879590 – crown --
879913 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1953
879936 – pacemaker speed -- 1952
880105 – 4x5 crown -- 1953
880476 – 4x5 crown --
881105 – speed – 1953
881212 – crown -- 1953
881378 – pacemaker speed – 1953 or 1954
882550 – 4x5 crown – 1953
882738 – 4x5 crown --
883126 - speed -- 1953
883441 – 4x5 crown -- 1953
883464 – crown – 1953
884051 – pacemaker speed -- 1953
885067 – crown – 1953
885579 – 4x5 crown 1953 or 1954
886402 – crown – 1953
886161 – crown -- 1951
888157 – 4x5 crown – 1953
888821 - -- 1953
889795 – crown --
890184- pacemaker --
892030 –
895391 - --
902460 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1955
903057 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1955
903511 – 4x5 pacemaker speed –1954
903531 – 4x5 crown --
906490 – pacemaker speed --1955
907537 – crown
911463 – pacemaker speed –1956
911851 – pacemaker speed – 1956
912462 – pacemaker -- 1956
914599 – crown -- 1956
915057 - crown
915952 – crown – 1956
916842 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1956
918487 – crown -- 1956
919489 – crown -- 1956
919713 – crown – 1956
920010 – crown –
921144 – crown -- 1956
921230 – crown – 1956 or 1957
921235 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1956
921798 – crown --
922849 – crown –1957
922691 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1956
924133 – crown -- 1956
925156 – crown -- 1957
925472 – crown -- 1957
926810 – crown -- 1957
928713- side rf crown -- 1957
929599 – crown – 1958
932529 – crown -- 1959
938136 – crown -- 1959
935638 – crown – 1959
936431 - -- 1959
936509 – 4x5 crown – 1959
938131 – crown -- 1959
938538 – 4x5 crown – 1959
938745 – 4x5 crown --
939928 – 4x5 crown –1959
941113 - -- 1959-1960
942501 – FP Speed -- 1960
943146 – 4x5 crown – 1960
943246 – crown -- 1960
945610 – crown – 1960
946538 – crown – 1962
948034 – crown --
950070 - crown -- Aug. 1962
950508 – crown -- 1963
952269 – crown – 1962?
954527 – crown -- 1962
954772 – 4x5 crown, side rf –
956346 – 4x5 crown – 1962
957448 – crown --
960544 – 4x5 crown – 1961
961224 – 4x5 crown – fall 1962
961761 – crown – 1962
964631 – 4x5 crown -- 1962
964799 – pacemaker speed – 1962
966160 – crown --
966405 – 4x5 crown – 1962
967762 –“ Heinz 57” crown – Sept. 1964
969578 –
970883 – Crown (J3A) -- 1963
973592 – crown -- 1963
976273 – crown – Feb. 1965
974135 - 4x5 crown (e4a) - April 1964
974728 – crown (f4a) – May 1964
976761 – speed – 1964?
978635 – 4x5 crown -- December 1964
980335 – crown -- guessed at 1965
981511 – crown – estimate 1967 or 1968
982046 – crown --
984538 – crown – estimated at 1968
985310 – crown -- 1968
985320 – crown (J8A) – 1968
987845 – crown --
989641 – crown – may 1972
990198 – crown – 1973 or 1974
990367 – crown (H2B) -- 1972[/i]

[smithdoor]

I found this on the web I hope it helps other on dating there

Graflex
I purchase mine new on the day Graflex when bankrupt. S/N 991201
It was the last new one in Fresno CA.
I and the store found later that day Graflex was bankrupt.


Page 1 of 2
Can not post hole lise on one posting


4839 - cycle graphic -- 1897
12780 – RB Auto – 1906-1908 guesstimate
14230 (15103 overstrike) 3x4 RB Tele – 1907
15359 - 5x7 Press Graflex -- 1907-1908?
patent Feb. 5, 1907
20310 – 4x5 RB Auto – 1910-1911
last patent date Aug. 31, 1909
28207 - pre introduction speed – 1911
28613 – 3x4 Auto – 1911-1912
3?173 – 2x3 Auto – 1912-1914
33214 – 3A Graflex – 1912-1914
47402 - Graflex 1A -- 1915 approx.
44859 – 2x3 Auto – 1915-1916
48245 - 3.25 x 5.5 compact graflex – early 1920’s
56232 – 5x7 Home Portrait – 1916-1917
66669 – top handle speed – late teens
78238 – 5x7 press graflex – approximately 1915
780(8)45 – 4x5 Top Handle Speed –1915
77482 – 3A Graflex – 1915-1916
84407 – 5x7 Press Graflex --
85996 - top handle speed –1917-1918
86300 – 4x5 top handle speed – 1917-1918
87794 - 5x7 speed – 1918-1919
88330 – 5x7 compact Graflex - 1917-1918
88374 – 5x7 compact graflex – 1916-1918
91208 – 4x5 Auto Graflex -- 1916-1919
92230 – 2x3 Auto – 1917?
95361 - 3x4 RB Auto – 1918-1919
100573 – RB Graflex Junior --
101084 – 3x4 top handle speed – 1916-1917
109798 – 5x7 compact graphic – late 1919 - 1920
111170 – 3.5 x 5.5 Top Handle Speed – 1918 to 192
114168 – 3x4 RB Tele – march 1921
119544 – RB Series B – spring 1922, listed as a Tele
122098 – 3x4 RB Auto – 1922-1923
126379 – 2x3 RB Auto – 1923
141580 – 4x5 Auto Graflex – 1924
142772 - 3x4 Series B -
143124 – Series B – 1925
144339 – 3x4 Series B – 1925
146133 – Series B – 1925-1926
154561 – RB Series B – 1926
157258 – 5x7 2D --
160990 – 3x4 RB Auto – 1928
161429 – Series D -- 1927
162053 – Series B – 1928
167748 – RB Series D – late 1929 – early 1930
173470 – RB Series B – 1930
173655 – RB Tele Graflex – 1930 logged as Series D
173747 – RB Series D -- 1930
175549 – 5x7 Speed graphic – 1931
178123 – 3x4 RB Series B -- 1931
182582 – 3x4 series B – July 1933
186880 – 4x5 pre anniversary -- 1935
187383 – 3x4 Series D -- 1935
187838 - -- 1935
188090 – 5x7 Speed – 1935
188112 – 5x7 Speed – 1935
188672 – 4x5 RB Series D – late 1935
198477 – 4x5 Series D -- 1937
199363 – speed – 1937
199732 – speed -- 1957
224448 - pre anniversary – 1937 to 1939
225775 – anniversary -- 1939
226272 - 2x3 Revolving Back Speed Graphic - last half 1937
226451 – 3x4 pre anniversary – late 1937
226919 – 2x3 RB Series B – 1937
226704 – 3x4 RB Series D – 1937
226919 – 2x3 RB Series B - 1937
229303 – 3x4 pre anniversary –1938
229533 – pre anniversary -- 1938
231769 – RB Series D -- 1938
232404 – 5x7 pre anniversary – 1938
232843 – Crown View, 3x4 back -- 1938
232898 – 5x7 Speed – 1938
232992 – 2x3 Graflex -- 1938
233071 – miniature speed --
238702 – pre anniversary speed – 1939
238817- 4x5 pre anniversary - 1939
238929 – pre anniversary – late 1939
239759 – miniature speed – late 1939
242164 – pre anniversary -- 1939
242453 – pre anniversary – 1939
244626 – miniature speed –
247286 – 4x5 Crown View – late 1939 - early 1940
248852 – anniversary – late 1939
248869 – anniversary – early 1940
249977 – miniature speed – 1940
250609 – miniature speed –
251890 – anniversary --
254186 – anniversary --
255040 –
255436 – 3x4 Anniversary – 1940
2577xx – 3x4 anniversary – 1940
260301 – 4x5 Crown View – 1941
260838 – miniature speed --
262183 – 3x4 speed – 1940
263824 – anniversary -- 1940
264164 – 4x5 anniversary – fall 1940
266978 – anniversary – 1940
269081 – anniversary – late 1940 - early 1941
272543 – miniature speed – 1940-1941
274891 – anniversary --
278433 - -- 1941
287212 – miniature speed – 1941
289222 - -- 1941
292785 – miniature speed – 1941
296507 – USAAC C3 --
301444 – anniversary -- 1941
309109 – anniversary -- 1942
310465 – anniversary – 1942
311261 – anniversary -- 1942
318023 – anniversary -- 1943
320317 – government anniversary – 1943
323070 – anniversary, black, PH-47-E -- 1943
323859 – government anniversary – 1943
326717 – anniversary – 1943
336467 – miniature speed --
341099 – anniversary – 1944
341320 – anniversary --
341667 – anniversary -- 1944
342045 – anniversary – 1944
342917 – anniversary -- 1943
346031 – anniversary – 1945
345141 – anniversary – 1945
349200 – black anniversary -- 1945
350679 – anniversary – 1945
351201 – anniversary -- 1945
354145 – miniature speed – 1945 1st batch after WWII
354765 – miniature speed - 1946
358103 - anniversary -- 9-1945
358807 – anniversary – 1945
359242 – anniversary, black, PH-47-E -- 1945
360070 – anniversary – 1946
366041 – 3x4 anniversary – 1946
368409 – miniature speed – 1945 or 1946
370236 – Miniature Speed – 1945
371107 – miniature speed – 1945
371834 - anniversary, black – 11/3/1945
377164 – miniature speed – 1946
377356 – miniature speed – 1946
380367 – 3x4 anniversary -- 1946
389835 – anniversary -- 1946
392216 - 4x5 Anniversary – 1946
392343 – anniversary -- 1946
393196 – anniversary – 1945 or 1946
394550 – 3x4 anniversary -- 1946
395280 – 3x4 anniversary -- 1946
397653 – anniversary -- 1946
398792 – 3x4 anniversary - 1946
401843 – anniversary – 1946
410196 – 2x3 crown -- 1947
410224 – crown – 1947
411398 – 2x3 crown -- 1947
412061 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1946
411249 – crown -1946
414010 – 2x3 pacemaker speed –1947
414353 – 2x3 pacemaker speed --1947
414384 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1947
416532 – 4x5 Super D graflex – 1947
416644 – Super D graflex – 1947
417622 – 4x5 Super D -- 1947
420378 – crown – 1947
421985 – crown -- 1947
423001 – 4x5 pacemaker speed -- 1947
425408 – 2x3 pacemaker speed -- 1947
428594 – 2x3 Crown – 1947
432504 – crown -- 1947
432244 – crown – 1947
435012 – crown –1947
440064 – 2x3 crown – 1947
440093 – 2x3 crown --
445232 – crown -- 1947
4474xx – pacemaker speed – 1947
452903 – 4x5 pacemaker -- 1947
453426 – 4x5 pacemaker speed – 1947
455004 – 4x5 pacemaker speed --
456333 – 4x5 pacemaker speed --
469904 – Crown View II --

[Tin Can]

Interesting.

So this is a list of known serial # production dates?

Makes my Century, 1951, year of my birth.

Thanks!

[Dan Fromm]

Randy,

The list of serial numbers posted in this thread was compiles from answers to dating questions posted on www.graflex.org by Theron "Tim" Holden. You can read more about him at http://ghq.graflex.org/ , click on Tim Holden Memories.

There's list of Graflex serial numbers by kind of equipment and date assigned behind Mr. Holden's answers to dating questions. It has problems and is difficult to use. Date assigned and date manufactured can be very different, especially for items that were sold in low volumes. There's no guarantee that assigned serial numbers were actually used. And the list breaks off in 1964 with the notation "See new book."

As far as I know no one but Mr. Holden has ever seen the new book. The old book was briefly posted by this thread's original poster and was later taken down. I believe that copies were made and still exist.

The list to which Rich gave a link and that's posted here is best seen as good guesses.

[Tin Can]

Dan,

Thanks for the heads up. I will take a longer look at http://ghq.graflex.org/ . I have a number of Graflex cameras and recently obtained 1944 edition of 'Graphic Graflex Photography, The Master Book for the Larger Camera', by Morgan and Lester. Plenty of very interesting equipment shown in there, and great advice for this newcomer to LF.

I am particularly fond of 2x3 models, shooting sheets with my Century yesterday.




Randy,

The list of serial numbers posted in this thread was compiles from answers to dating questions posted on www.graflex.org by Theron "Tim" Holden. You can read more about him at http://ghq.graflex.org/ , click on Tim Holden Memories.

There's list of Graflex serial numbers by kind of equipment and date assigned behind Mr. Holden's answers to dating questions. It has problems and is difficult to use. Date assigned and date manufactured can be very different, especially for items that were sold in low volumes. There's no guarantee that assigned serial numbers were actually used. And the list breaks off in 1964 with the notation "See new book."

As far as I know no one but Mr. Holden has ever seen the new book. The old book was briefly posted by this thread's original poster and was later taken down. I believe that copies were made and still exist.

The list to which Rich gave a link and that's posted here is best seen as good guesses.

[smithdoor]

This the other site on s/n http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/serials.html

Dave

Dan,

Thanks for the heads up. I will take a longer look at http://ghq.graflex.org/ . I have a number of Graflex cameras and recently obtained 1944 edition of 'Graphic Graflex Photography, The Master Book for the Larger Camera', by Morgan and Lester. Plenty of very interesting equipment shown in there, and great advice for this newcomer to LF.

I am particularly fond of 2x3 models, shooting sheets with my Century yesterday.

[Tin Can]

Thanks for the link, great resource!

The Ektar dating system reveals my Century has a 1946 Ektar f4.5 101 mm lens.


This the other site on s/n http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/serials.html

Dave

[Dan Fromm]

Randy,

What's your camera's serial number? The first Century was made in 1949. The first Century s/n assigned in '51 is 514597, the last s/n assigned that year is 518199, assigned October 16th. The first batch of Century serial numbers assigned in '52 were assigned 7/25, so your camera could have been made in '52.

Impossible to know whether y'r 101/4.5 Ektar was sold with the camera. Could have been, but I'm not sure. I have the impression that owners replaced lenses. Upgrades and all that. The traffic on this forum gives the impression that there's a lot of that going around.

FWIW, my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, probably made before May, 1947, has an uncoated 101/4.5 Ektar made in 1946. EO 3946. It may be a replacement, put on by someone who owned the camera before I bought it, but I like to think it is original. My fantasy is that it was bought from EKCo as Miniature Speed Graphic production was ramping down, not sold with a Mini, kept until 2x3 Pacemaker production began.

[Tin Can]

Oh, Oh, now I'm gonna list a few numbers...

#1, Century, # 514897, Lens Ektar EO14314, ending with 'L' in a circle, VGC

#2, 2x3 Crown, # 733015, Lens Ektar EI1265, with the same 'L', VGC

#3, Century, # 509697, Kodak Anastigmat, no #, f4.5 10.5 cm, GG focus and frame only, PDG

#4, 2x3 Speed, No serial #, Kalart has #, Ektar EI822 'L', VGC

#5, 2x3 Crown, # 439955, lens Graflex Trioptar, GG only, user

#6, 3x4 Speed, No serial #, lens Jena, Nr.2375079, f4.5 11.5 cm, User cond Lens VGC sticky shutter

#7, 3x4 Speed, parts camera

#8, 4x5 Speed, International back, VGC, can't get to it right now.

Then there's B&J, Busch, and Horseman, but nobody cares for them. :)

I actually never before counted them, they just keep showing up!

[Dan Fromm]

#1, Century, # 514897 -- s/n assigned 2/12/51, batch starts at 515698, next batch assigned 10/16/51

#2, 2x3 Crown, # 733015 -- s/n assigned no earlier than June, '47, no later than 2/50. Probably 2/50, next batch assigned 2/21/50

#3, Century, # 509697 -- s/n assigned 2/10/50, batch starts at 509595; next batch assigned 7/18/50

#4, 2x3 Speed, No serial # -- sorry, no s/n no date. Which model 2x3 Speed is it? Miniature or Pacemaker?

#5, 2x3 Crown, # 439955 -- s/n assigned 6/9/47, batch starts at 439871; next batch assigned some time in '47

Larger sizes, sorry, can't help, don't have the data. Also, without serial number there's no good way of data anything Graflex and predecessors made.

[Tin Can]

I don't know the difference between Miniature or Pacemaker with #4. I do like this one the best, as I like the focal plane shutter. I want to find a 2x3 Speed with an International back, if such a type exists.

102941102942102943

[Dan Fromm]

I don't know the difference between Miniature or Pacemaker with #4. I do like this one the best, as I like the focal plane shutter. I want to find a 2x3 Speed with an International back, if such a type exists.

Miniature Speed Graphic with a Graphic (= spring) back. Compare it with a Crown, whose full name is Pacemaker Crown Graphic.

International back? Wash your mind out with soap. Graflok back. Graflok. And, yes, there are all sizes of Pacemaker Speed and Pacemaker Crown Graphics with Graflok backs. Also with Graphic backs (= spring backs) and with Graflex backs (as on Graflex SLRs). Whatever the customer wanted.

The Graflok back came to market in 1949. Before 1949, Graphics were delivered with Graphic backs, the Graflex back was offered to order. Starting in '49, Century Graphics had integral Graflok backs, other Graphics had Graphic backs as standard and Graflex and Graflok backs were optional. Eventually, sorry, I don't know which year, the Graflok became the standard.

When the Graflok back was introduced, Graflex Inc. sold Graflok backs to fit older Graphics. I've seen Miniature Speed Graphics with the correct retrofit Graflok, complete with a flash socket at the back's upper left corner.

Now go over to www.graflex.org, read the FAQs and everything else, and educate yourself.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Dan, I often forget things I read. I have been to http://www.graflex.org/ often, I learn best with things in my hands.

I will stop using the wrong term for Graflok backs, as many have written, the whole darn nomenclature is confusing.

I do know I like these little cameras. I only shoot them with sheet and even recently started shooting sheet with Mamiya RB.

My fumble fingers have difficulty with roll film in many ways.

I also know this forum does not consider 2x3 large format.

Thanks for all your advice.


Miniature Speed Graphic with a Graphic (= spring) back. Compare it with a Crown, whose full name is Pacemaker Crown Graphic.

International back? Wash your mind out with soap. Graflok back. Graflok. And, yes, there are all sizes of Pacemaker Speed and Pacemaker Crown Graphics with Graflok backs. Also with Graphic backs (= spring backs) and with Graflex backs (as on Graflex SLRs). Whatever the customer wanted.

The Graflok back came to market in 1949. Before 1949, Graphics were delivered with Graphic backs, the Graflex back was offered to order. Starting in '49, Century Graphics had integral Graflok backs, other Graphics had Graphic backs as standard and Graflex and Graflok backs were optional. Eventually, sorry, I don't know which year, the Graflok became the standard.

When the Graflok back was introduced, Graflex Inc. sold Graflok backs to fit older Graphics. I've seen Miniature Speed Graphics with the correct retrofit Graflok, complete with a flash socket at the back's upper left corner.

Now go over to www.graflex.org, read the FAQs and everything else, and educate yourself.

[geopadi]

My Speed Graphic is No 920512 but appears in the list between Crown Graphics can anyone shed any
I believe my camera is 1956 with the top rangefinder however it has a Graflex Optar lens so no help dating from that.
Thanks for any help with the date of my camera

[Dan Fromm]

920512 is in a block of 3,000 4x5 Graphic serial numbers assigned 5/24/1956. 919,930 - 922,929. The next block of 4x5 Graphic serial numbers was assigned 11/19/1956.

When these serial numbers were assigned Graflex Inc. assigned blocks of serial numbers to 4x5 Graphics without regard to type. Crowns and Speeds could both have numbers from the same block, the s/n has no bearing on whether the camera is a Crown or a Speed.

[geopadi]

Dan,
Thankyou for your informed and quick answer, much appreciated. That pretty much nails it.
Cheers
George

[Oren Grad]

After my recent treasure hunt I now have three 3.25x4.25 Crown Graphics on hand. And wouldn't you know, all three serial numbers fall within the 756000-756500 range. Per the big S/N list, I guess that dates them to 1952. (Is the list purporting to record when the numbers were assigned, when the cameras were manufactured, or...?) Granting that N=3 is a small sample, but the coincidence does make me wonder about the population from which I'm sampling - how many quarter-plate Crowns were ever made, and in how many production runs. From what I've seen so far in searching the web for information I imagine nobody knows for sure, but I'm curious even so.

[Dan Fromm]

Oren, Graflex Inc. and predecessors assigned serial numbers in blocks -- the smallest block contains 1 s/n -- and then built or didn't build the blocks out. The best that can be done to estimated when a serial number was used (= the camera bearing it was made) is to place it between the date the block containing the s/n was assigned and the date the next block for the camera model was assigned. Even this isn't perfectly safe. And some low production cameras had successive blocks of serial numbers assigned years apart.

I supposed that Graflex made cameras in batches (your production runs) but can't prove this and have no idea how many batches a block of serial numbers might have contained.

Graflex Inc. started assigning blocks of Pacemaker Graphic serial numbers by format rather than model (Pacemaker Speed Graphic, Pacemaker Crown Graphic) some time in 1949. This makes it impossible to tell how many of each model were made.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks, Dan. Perusing the list further up the thread, with all the caveats one needs to apply to it, I'm left wondering whether there were far fewer 3.25x4.25 Pacemaker Graphics - be they Speed or Crown - made compared than 4x5. Pending more/better data I'll consider that a hypothesis.

I would have always assumed that the number was smaller, just not by that large a margin. I guess it shouldn't be that big a surprise, though, now that I think about it - I can't think of any contemporaneous 3.25x4.25 models other than the Kalart press camera, whereas 4x5's were offered by many vendors then as now. That presumably says something about demand.

[Texasdent]

213006213006213007Hello,I am super green to Graflex cameras. My dad passed away and left me a Greeley camera. It has a serial number of 905254. Around the lense area it says Crown Graphic. Can someone help in determining what type of Graflex I have? Thank you .

[Dan Fromm]

Greeley? The pictures show an upside down 4x5 Crown Graphic with a top range finder. The serial number is in a block of 3,000 numbers assigned 5/12/55. The next block was assigned 7/21/58.

[Dugan]

Hi,
That looks like a 4x5 Crown Graphic, with a 127mm f4.7 Kodak Ektar lens in a Synchro-Compur shutter.
I recommend you use the search feature here, and check www.graflex.org.
An abundance of info here, and there.
There are two types of ground glass frames ..."backs"... for that model, one accepts a wider range of accessories than the other. A photo of the back will help us determine which one you have.
The " RR" serial number on the lens dates the lens to 1955.

[Texasdent]

Greeley? The pictures show an upside down 4x5 Crown Graphic with a top range finder. The serial number is in a block of 3,000 numbers assigned 5/12/55. The next block was assigned 7/21/58.

Thank you

[Texasdent]

213015213014213013
Hi,
That looks like a 4x5 Crown Graphic, with a 127mm f4.7 Kodak Ektar lens in a Synchro-Compur shutter.
I recommend you use the search feature here, and check www.graflex.org.
An abundance of info here, and there.
There are two types of ground glass frames ..."backs"... for that model, one accepts a wider range of accessories than the other. A photo of the back will help us determine which one you have.
The " RR" serial number on the lens dates the lens to 1955.

I will post more pictures213012

[Dugan]

That camera has the more useful "Graflok" back, not the spring or "Graphic" back.
Roll-film adapters, etc. are more plentiful and easier to use with the Graflok, so that's a plus.

[Texasdent]

That camera has the more useful "Graflok" back, not the spring or "Graphic" back.
Roll-film adapters, etc. are more plentiful and easier to use with the Graflok, so that's a plus.

Thank you for all the information. If it’s not out of line to ask,would you have any idea what this camera would sell for with the flash assembly included? Thanks

[Louis Pacilla]

Thank you for all the information. If it’s not out of line to ask,would you have any idea what this camera would sell for with the flash assembly included? Thanks

No valuations given here. It's a LF forum rule. Look at the sold listings on eBay but only the green ones that have actually sold.

[Texasdent]

No valuations given here. It's a LF forum rule. Look at the sold listings on eBay but only the green ones that have actually sold.

Thank you for your kindness. Sorry for my dumbness.