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View Full Version : Linhof IV, V or Speed /Crown Graphic?



cobalt
9-Sep-2008, 06:23
I am interested in shooting 4x5 hand held, with accurate rangefinder focus.

Before I buy a Speed/Crown Graphic, I'd like to know, from those with experience with both, what you see as the pros and cons of each. Every time I get ready to plunk down the cash for a Graphic, the hideously expensive linhof comes to mind...is it worth it?

venchka
9-Sep-2008, 06:41
For hand held shooting, and only hand held shooting, get a nice Speed Graphic with a good focal plane shutter and rangefinder. Spend the change on film & chemicals and maybe another lens or 2 for non-handheld work.

The Linhofs will do more overall. Are they worth the extra money? Only you know that answer.

Frank Petronio
9-Sep-2008, 07:42
I've owned all three plus the Speed ;-) As far as the rangefinder accuracy, the Linhof IV, V, and later are somewhat better i think because the distance between the two windows (I forgot the correct term) is longer than the side mounted rangefinder on the Graphic. And the Linhof cams are much larger than the cams on the top-mounted rangefinder Graphics.

In practice, the Crown is excellent and I think the later top mounted rangefinder models are the best option because they have the widest distance between their two windows and I've had good results with them. With either camera technique is very important, and knowing WHERE to focus so you maintain the proper focused-upon distance is really the trick to it all.

For handheld work you aren't going to need movements, so a mint $500 top-rf Crown Graphic is ideal -- and they are inexpensive enough that you can own a second camera, maybe a monorail with unlimited movements ($500 buys you a great monorail too, like a nice Linhof or Sinar F)(So for $1000 you have a more capable combo than all those guys who drop $5000 on their Ebonies, lol).

The Crown is also lighter than the Speed or the Linhofs, which makes a difference if you do more than a few handheld shots. I think the Crown is tremendous value and you can not distinguish between photos I've made with the $500 Crown or the $3000 Technika. The 135/4.7 Xenars are great too.

If you want an "all-arounder" or value Leica-like quality, then the Technika is the only option. If you're going to buy a used slightly beat-up one and send it in for lens camming and service, I'd opt for the less expensive IV. Being able to interchange lens cams between cameras (the main feature of the V and later) isn't that important unless you have a lot of lens and cameras... (The rise mechanism on the IV is more difficult to access but it is stronger than the V.) So I would look for a cheap IV and send to Marflex for a refurb (it will cost as much as the camera itself but it will be worth it.)

(For an old Technika, buy a new black covering from cameraleather.com and scrape off the ugly old tan covering, you don't have to do it perfectly, the new stuff sticks great. It will make your camera feel so much nicer!)

IanG
9-Sep-2008, 07:49
I have a love hate relationship with Speed/Crown Graphics I own 3. However I'd say be sure you want a camera with very limited almost non existent movements.

My main 5x4 is a Wista, it's a work-horse and has plenty of movements. If I was buying one camera for all my 5x4 use including hand-held I guess I'd buy a Linhof, or probably more likely a Toyo.

Ian

BradS
9-Sep-2008, 10:26
Not much more to add. I would only say that the Crown/Speed are cheap, light weight and reliable. I use mine like a big folder. The lack of movements means absolutley nothing...except possibly, weight savings. Handheld, you're not really gonna use movements anyway. It's just point, focus and shoot.

Oh, and...the standard 135mm Xenar and Optar lenses are, quite possibly the most under-rated lenses out there. Both are simply superb! Hmmm, same goes for the 127mm Ektar!

Colin Corneau
9-Sep-2008, 21:11
It really comes down to personal style and habits, to determine if you need movements or not.

I don't, and therefore I use my Crown more than my Shen Hao. But...your results may vary.

The lens is key -- you can have a top of the line Ferrari, but if you put bald tires on it, you haven't really got much.

Peter De Smidt
10-Sep-2008, 19:32
I just picked up a nice Crown graphic kit, and I've owned a technica. The Crown actually has a fair amount of movements available, especially for wide angle lenses. I've heard that they can be use with a 65mm lens. I'll give that a try next week, as well as with a 58mm and 47mm. They are pretty sturdy. They're best use, as others have pointed out, is as a 4x5 point'n'shoot. The rangefinder seems as easy to use as my Fuji medium format cameras.

Linhofs would be a better choice for traditional landscape photography, where the back movements and easy front tilt would be nice. John Sexton, Bruce Barnbaum and many others do stunning work with them. But unless you need the extreme ruggedness, they're not anywhere close to being a good value.

Personally, I'd recommend paying a fair price for a good Crown and using it. If you find yourself wishing for more movements, you can always sell it and buy something else. But you might find that it suits you just fine. In that case you've just saved thousands of dollars.

Joseph O'Neil
11-Sep-2008, 05:16
I've owned several 4x5's over the past few years, but I have never, ever considered selling my Crown Graphic. Linhofs are beautiful cameras when you actually see and hold one in person, but the Crown is kinda like an old sweatshirt, always comfortable to use, always there when you need it, and you are never afraid of of using it.

Start with the Crown. You may move up to something better someday, but the crown is jut a plain, nice, easy to use camera.

joe

lungovw
11-Sep-2008, 17:56
If you go for Linhof Technika, I found the best combination buying a 5x7 body with an extra GG back for 4x5. That gives you much more bellows extension and movements when shooting in 4x5 and the possibility of 5x7 is not to be disregarded . The drawback in weight and size is not that high compared to a Technika 4x5 and if you really need lightness: complete the set with a Crown Graphic. Wagner

Bob Salomon
11-Sep-2008, 18:12
...The drawback in weight and size is not that high compared to a Technika 4x5 and if you really need lightness: complete the set with a Crown Graphic. Wagner

The difference for many people is dramatic.

The factory lists the Super Technika V 4x5 as weighing 6 pounds and the 5x7 Super Technika V as 12 pounds.

Vlad Soare
12-Sep-2008, 02:07
The drawback in weight and size is not that high compared to a Technika 4x5
I'm sorry to disagree, but I once had the chance to test both of them, and the difference in weight was enormous. They weren't even comparable.

Paul H
12-Sep-2008, 02:51
The other, often overlooked option, is the British MPP Microtechnical camera. In between the Graphics and Technikas price-wise, but more akin to the Technika in most ways.

The Mark VII or VIII are the ones to go for. RF focus on most, plus rotating backs, cammed lenses, etc. I've shot mine a few times hand-held.

al olson
12-Sep-2008, 17:48
Don't overlook the Super Graphic. Graflex introduced them in 1958 and Toyo ceased production in 1974. They have a metal body and cammed lenses are available. (Some of the later model Crown Graphics also have cammed lenses. Similar cams, but not the same.) The front standard has swing, tilt, and rise and the bed can be dropped 15 degrees. The Graflok back will only rotate.

These cameras are light, durable, and excellent for hand held work.

Beware, however, the Super Speed Graphics. These cameras have a 1/1000 speed shutter that is cocked by twisting the built-in lens hood. They are somewhat notorious for mechanical problems.