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View Full Version : What lens to cover 14x17 in the 240mm Range?



Richard K.
29-Aug-2008, 15:39
As the title suggests, what lenses of focal length 210mm to 270mm will cover 14x17/8x20? I mean really cover, with detail in the corners, not just illuminate. Will the 240mm f/9 Zeiss Dagor do so? What is its rated image circle at f/22? Where there ever SW designs (like Super Angulon), with 100 deg coverage made in such long focal lengths? :eek: I can vaguely recall a SW 300mm Fujinon but this may not have actually existed? Seems that type of design might be useful in the 240mm+ focal lengths but they top off at 210mm...(except for that possibly imaginary Fujinon! Has anyone actually SEEN one?). Thanks! :)

DuncanD
29-Aug-2008, 15:55
I own a Fujinon W 300mm. Although I'm no expert, from the specs I read the lens appears to have a 69 degree angle of coverage, with an image circle of 410mm+. That is no where near enough for 14x17, which is not a problem for me shooting at 1/10th that area!

Oren Grad
29-Aug-2008, 15:56
210 Super-Symmar XL. 240 and 270 Computar - pretty sure about the 270, not so sure about the 240.

Gene McCluney
29-Aug-2008, 19:05
What about the 250mm Wide Field Ektar?

alec4444
29-Aug-2008, 19:08
What about the 250mm Wide Field Ektar?

Doubtful. I'm using that on my 11x14 and the movements are tight. You might be able to get away with a 210 Super Angulon - but you'll probably be shooting straight on w/o movements....

Cheers!
--A

PS: You might give the 265mm Protar V a shot....I don't think they cost all that much as compared to the Super Symmar XL or the Computar.

sanking
29-Aug-2008, 20:26
14X17" needs about same coverage as 12X20".

Dagors are all over the board in coverage. Some very old 12" specimens might cover, but best bet would be a14" Dagor. 240mm and 270mm Dagors no way.

240 mm Computar will not cover. 270mm Computar covers, just barely, 300 mmComputar covers with about 1.5" of movement.

210mm Schneider SSXL covers with some movements.

I believe that a 300mm Fujinon SW or SWD was made that should cover, but I have never seen one.

Sandy



As the title suggests, what lenses of focal length 210mm to 270mm will cover 14x17/8x20? I mean really cover, with detail in the corners, not just illuminate. Will the 240mm f/9 Zeiss Dagor do so? What is its rated image circle at f/22? Where there ever SW designs (like Super Angulon), with 100 deg coverage made in such long focal lengths? :eek: I can vaguely recall a SW 300mm Fujinon but this may not have actually existed? Seems that type of design might be useful in the 240mm+ focal lengths but they top off at 210mm...(except for that possibly imaginary Fujinon! Has anyone actually SEEN one?). Thanks! :)

Richard K.
29-Aug-2008, 21:45
Any idea on the 240 mm f/9 Zeiss Dagor, Sandy?

Kirk Fry
29-Aug-2008, 21:57
"You might give the 265mm Protar V a shot....I don't think they cost all that much as compared to the Super Symmar XL or the Computar."

According to this post to Zeiss literature it will not cover.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=15979
The longer ones only do 90 degrees.

K

alec4444
29-Aug-2008, 22:02
Right. I was factoring in the advertised coverage over the actual. The 182mm covers my 11x14 stopped down, and it's rated at whole plate size wide open, or < 8x10 @ f36. Factor that in, and maybe it'll cover?

Or maybe not. But it's worth a go before shellin' out the $$$ for a couple of these other lenses!

sanking
29-Aug-2008, 22:22
I think not. The 270mm Computar covers as much as the wide angle Zeiss Dagors I have seen of the same focal length, and the 270mm Computar barely covers 12X20.

Sandy King





Any idea on the 240 mm f/9 Zeiss Dagor, Sandy?

Richard K.
29-Aug-2008, 22:22
But doesn't the chart referred to above say diameter of sharp field at small stops is 26 3/4"? So it should cover 14x17? Why then is 10x12 recommended plate size?:confused:

Richard K.
29-Aug-2008, 22:27
Wow, so there may be no lens in the 210 to 270 mm focal length range that covers 14x17? I don't think that the 210 SSXL does it either, unless it goes well beyond its speced IC of 500mm! So no way to get that 18mm on 35mm camera look on 12x20? :)

don12x20
29-Aug-2008, 23:33
The Rodenstock W 300mm covers 12x20 quite nicely with lots of movement at infinity.

The Rodenstock 200mm Grandagon covers 7x17 quite well. I've used the 200mm on 12x20 but its a tight fit - you are just at the corner clipping point focused just a bit closer than infinity.
Note that focusing closer will, of course, make the image circle larger and coverage is very easy then with some movements.

Really Big Cameras
30-Aug-2008, 00:04
14X17" needs about same coverage as 12X20".

Slightly less, actually. Depending on film holder margins - about 550mm IC for 14x17 vs. about 580mm for 12x20


Dagors are all over the board in coverage. Some very old 12" specimens might cover, but best bet would be a14" Dagor.

Given the cost of a 14" Dagor, I think a 355mm G Claron in a nice, modern factory supplied Copal No. 3 shutter would be a better option in this focal length. Or, if you don't mind the size and weight, a convertible Symmar. These are plentiful, affordable, and come in your choice of Compound, Ilex or Copal shutters.


240 mm Computar will not cover. 270mm Computar covers, just barely, 300 mmComputar covers with about 1.5" of movement.

I recently picked up a 270mm Computar. I haven't shot with it yet on 14x17, but just louping the image on the GG, it looks like it will cover. Of course, a test shot or two will be necessary to determine just how sharp the corners are, but it looks promising.

The 240mm Computar is a great lens on 7x17, and probably just hits the corners of 8x20, but after putting it on the 14x17, I'd have to agree with Sandy that it won't cover the format.

The 305mm Computar is a great wide angle for this format. It covers with a bit to spare and is really quite wide (for my taste). It's similar to an 85mm on 4x5, or a 165mm on 8x10.

For many shots, I actually prefer the 355mm focal length. It's a very comfortable wide angle for me (about like a 100mm on 4x5 or a 210mm on 8x10), but then I've never been much of an ultra wide shooter on any format.


210mm Schneider SSXL covers with some movements.

I haven't used this lens on any format, but if the illumination fall-off characteristics are anything like it's shorter siblings, I would suspect a center filter (a VERY expensive center filter) may be required for anything approaching even illumination.


I believe that a 300mm Fujinon SW or SWD was made that should cover, but I have never seen one.

I've never seen one in the flesh (only in photos in the Fuji literature), but it would cover with tons to spare (IC = 720mm). Even if you could find one, it would make the 210mm Super Symmar XL look tiny and cheap by comparison. Better to stick with the much smaller 305mm Computar. It's not cheap, and not common, but certainly a lot less expensive and easier to find than the 300mm Fujinon SW.

For the sake of completeness, my standard lens kit on 14x17 is:

305mm f9 Computar
355mm f9 G Claron
450mm f9 Nikkor M
600mm f11.5 Fujinon C
760mm f14 APO Ronar CL

The first four are are relatively compact and lightweight (for lenses with this much coverage) and are mounted in factory Copal No. 3 shutters. The last one is also pretty compact and lightweight for the focal length and in the original barrel.

For shooting close to the vehicle, I substitute a convertible Symmar for the G Claron and add a 42" Red Dot Artar on the long end. These two are quite big and heavy.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Kerik Kouklis
30-Aug-2008, 00:06
As the title suggests, what lenses of focal length 210mm to 270mm will cover 14x17/8x20? I mean really cover, with detail in the corners, not just illuminate. Will the 240mm f/9 Zeiss Dagor do so?

I have a that very lens. It covers, but just barely. Minimal movements at infinity. So, I don't know if it meets your standards. It's one of my favorite lenses. Paid $500 for it in a Compound about 10 years ago. I wouldn't sell it for 5x that price. I love what the lens does and I don't obsess about the corners. Only photographers look at the corners... :p

Hugo Zhang
30-Aug-2008, 02:27
Only photographers look at the corners...


Kerik,

You must have noticed some photographers don't get bothered by dark corners at all. Two names pop out in my mind: Atget and Izu.:)

Hugo

wfwhitaker
30-Aug-2008, 06:07
My 11x14 Protar V covers 14x17. I think that's around 270mm FL. When I had the Wisner 14x17 I bought that lens for that format specifically.

Richard K.
30-Aug-2008, 07:27
Paid $500 for it in a Compound about 10 years ago. I wouldn't sell it for 5x that price.

OK, how about $2500 AND a dozen Tim Horton's doughnuts AND a tin of fine ground Tim Horton's coffee AND a Toronto Maple Leafs Jersey?!?!?:D

Do you (or anybody) have a photo of the lens? A photo taken WITH the lens? Seems like this may be the ONLY possibility in the 250mm neighbourhood...:(