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NICETOPOL
27-Aug-2008, 08:48
Hi everybody, I have possibility to get an ARCA M-Line 8*10.
At first time I was looking for a TOYO M and my question is if you have the choice for the same price, wich one ?
Somebody tell me that the early M-line change withe the actuel M-line monolith ?
I'm see the Arca weight is more light than the Toyo, but probably not so easy to take it in a bakpack.
Have anyone experience with Arca Swiss M-line ? The camera look perfect finish and I was impressive by the mechanical quality. The Toyo look cheapest.

Thanks a lot.

Peter De Smidt
27-Aug-2008, 09:54
We have a 4x5 m-line at work. It is a nice, well built camera. Accessories, though, are fairly hard to come by and hence expensive, at least in the USA. If you need bag bellows...make sure to investigate what these'd cost you. On the face of it, though, aren't there better choices for a backpacking camera, such as an Arca F-line? With the m-line you'd probably want to put it in a hard case strapped to an external backpacking frame.

Jan Nieuwenhuysen
28-Aug-2008, 04:12
I am not aware of a difference between an M-line and a monolith model. Please enlighten me somebody if I am wrong. AFAIK there are A, B and C models (now obsolete) and the current F and M models, metric or non metric and currently made with/for smaller lens panels.
Oops, I nearly forgot the what's-it's-called clamshell model.

It's a fundamental choice between those two cameras.
The A-S is a monorail 'studio' type camera. The Toyo is a folding type camera and much easier to transport. I must not think of trying to get an A-S M 8x10 into a rucksack! Maybe some people do it, everything is doable, but I would prefer a car.
The best thing I can advice you is to loan or rent similar cameras for awhile and see how you like them. Also check the availability and pricing of accessories and parts and service for each system. A-S is bloody expensive as it, sadly, has developed into a 'boutique' brand nowadays. Toyo I know nothing about, never worked with one.

As far as A-S is concerned: I have owned a 4x5 Monolith for the past 8 years or so and I still have to find one thing I do not like about the camera. I have used it for portraits, architecture, studio photography, you name it. It is built like a tank and very intuitive to use. For me, that is. Other people rave about the Sinar, which I detest.

Get actual experience with different brands and types of cameras before you spend a lot of money on one. Maybe in the end you will find out it is really a Sinar F or a Cambo, or ...? that is the right choice for you.

Allen in Montreal
28-Aug-2008, 05:09
I am not aware of a difference between an M-line and a monolith model.
Please enlighten me somebody if I am wrong. ......


It is built like a tank and very intuitive to use. For me, that is. Other people rave about the Sinar, which I detest.........



There is a very large difference between the two.

The Metric is somewhat like the F but a step further in the movement devices.
the Monolith uses huge blocks somewhat similar in appearance to the Sinar P2.

As for the O.P.

If I had my choice between the Toyo and the Arca, I would take the Arca in a flash.

As Jan mentions, the Arca is truly a very intuitive camera.

If the price is right, take both, you may be able to flip the other. Neither seem to come on the market all that often.

raucousimages
28-Aug-2008, 05:59
It depends on the intended use. For backbacking I would go with the Toyo 810M. If those are the only choices the Arca is a beter studio camera but my studio 8X10 is a Toyo 810G so I can share lenses with the 810M.

Emmanuel BIGLER
28-Aug-2008, 07:41
From Jan (hello from France, Jan !) : I am not aware of a difference between an M-line and a monolith model.
To the best of my knowledge, as far as post-2000 camera are concerned, all Arca Swiss M-line cameras are Monolith. At least accordiing to the well-known catalogue available as a scanned pdf either on the largeformat web site or from the US authorised repair centre, Precision Camera Works.

But there are some early M-line cameras designed and fabricated in the years that immediately followed 1984 (the change of ownership at Arca Swiss) that are not identical to the current Monolith model. The current monolith model is characterized by the total absence of sliding or tilting mechanisms on the format frames themselves.
All movements are geared, self-locking and controlled from the function carriers, unlike the F-line series ; and unlike early M-line models where the early M-line format frames still beared some mechanisms for movements.
I've seen such a transitional Arca Swiss M-line model for sale in Paris in the excellent shop "Le Grand Format" where the shopkeeper, Mr. Gadat, a real expert in view cameras, is one or the rare European dealers with a permanent and substantial stock of used Arca Swiss cameras and parts.

So it is actually important when looking at a second-hand M-line camera to be sure that the vendor knows his stuff. Or get a copy of the Y2K Arca Swiss full catalogue ;-)

The Metric is somewhat like the F but a step further
It might be confusing, but the the Arca Swiss Metric models are part of the F-line series. F-metric is also used to denote such a camera. In the F-metric the only difference with the F-classic (or with the discovery or earlier F-basic) is that vertical and lateral shifts are geared and self-locking.
Function carriers are different between the F-classic and F-metric but totally compatible, you can mix F-basic, F-classic and F-metric function carriers and frames if you wish and loose no functionnalities. F-basic refers to a discontinued type of F-line models where the lateral shifts are locked by a simple knurled knob, like on ethe discovery model, instead of a spring-loaded clamp like in the current F-classic.
You could actually attach a Monolith format frame on a F-Basic, F-classic or F-metric function carrier, but you would get no vertical shifts !

Allen in Montreal
28-Aug-2008, 08:37
I am not sure how current this catalogue is, but this is where I thought the line stood.
I have not been very aggressive about keeping up what is the most current, so my apologizes if this is out of date, perhaps someone can estimate the date line for these camera bodies for the record?

The F Classic:

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4616/arcafclassic1wq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Metric:


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/454/arcametric1vn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Mono:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4834/arcamono1bi9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Jan Nieuwenhuysen
28-Aug-2008, 13:55
Salut Emmanuel!, thank you for your information. I was not aware of the existence of the transition M not Monolith model.

Allen in Montreal
28-Aug-2008, 14:53
Bonjour Emanuel
Pour etre sure, sont les photos que jai montreravant ou apres l'an 2000?

NICETOPOL
30-Aug-2008, 01:41
Thanks a lot. All your opinion help me.
Have a nice week-end.