Jobo / Uniroller question

[Francesco Gallarotti]

With some help from the Flickr LF group and from older LGPF posts, looks like the shopping list to develop 4x5 myself is:

1) Uniroller base
2) one Jobo 2551 tank (which holds 2 4x5 reels, each 6 sheets) -- apparently this is the smallest tank that would fit the uniroller base -- and the ending "1" in the item number means that it doesn't have a cog lid but a simple rubber red cap
3) two Jobo 2509N reels (to load the film sheets, each of them holds up to 6 sheets)

The question is... I see Jobo sells a Loader base and a Loader guide to be able to insert the film in the reel without ever touching it with your fingers... is this necessary?

Or can you easily handle the extraction from the film holder and insertion in the reel inside a changing tent without ever touching the surface?

Thanks,

Francesco

[Ted Felton]

I use the tank and reels you mentioned. I don't know how you could ever get the film out of the camera film holders and into the developing reels without touching the film. As far as loading the reels without the loader, I've never tried that. It may be possible. I've got some practice film and I'll give it a try. Loading the reels with the loader requires practice and patience.

Ted

[Francesco Gallarotti]

I use the tank and reels you mentioned. I don't know how you could ever get the film out of the camera film holders and into the developing reels without touching the film. As far as loading the reels without the loader, I've never tried that. It may be possible. I've got some practice film and I'll give it a try. Loading the reels with the loader requires practice and patience.

Ted

Maybe I didn't explain what I meant by not touching the film... I just meant not touching the surface (always holding it by the edges). I don't have film or reels here at home yet, and I don't know how it works removing the film from the holders, but I know that if I take a piece of paper cut 4x5 in size, I can hold it between my thumb and medium finger just by the edges, without having to ever touch its surface with the risk of leaving fingerprints on it... you know what I mean?

[BradS]

Yes, the sheet film loader thingy (I think it it Jobo part number 2508 or something like that) is...well, I'm sure somebody will say you don't need it but, I cannot imagine loading the 2509n reels without one. It is hard enough to do with the loader base.

You can buy the whole kit in one box. It is Jobo part number 4341 for something like $150 brand new. It comes with the 2521 tank, one reel, the loader base and the little bat wings for both 4x5 and 9x12.

Can it be loaded without touching the surface of the film? Well, yes...kinda. The reel can be loaded (using the loader base and film guide) only touching the film by the edges. Film holders...I can easily load without touching the surface but, I always have to grab the edge of the film with my fingers to unload...but, it's not worth worrying about that.

[BradS]

Oh, another thought...the 2521 (one reel tank) is too short for the uni-color roller base. The two reel tank (2551?) would probably work great though.

[Francesco Gallarotti]

Oh, another thought...the 2521 (one reel tank) is too short for the uni-color roller base. The two reel tank (2551?) would probably work great though.

Yep, I read about that... I am looking at the "kit" that includes all you said for $179.99. I should be able to use it also for 120 films, I assume, using the right reels.

I wonder if I should shell the money for a Jobo base so that it controls temperature and I could one day do also E6, since I would love to use some E6 on LF... That's a lot of money to add though, and the Jobo is so much bigger in size than the Uniroller is... really not what I am looking forward to put on my minuscule kitchen counter when developing...

[Francesco Gallarotti]

I can easily load without touching the surface but, I always have to grab the edge of the film with my fingers to unload...but, it's not worth worrying about that.

So fingerprints don't ruin the actual image? I read somewhere that fingerprints are made essentially of oil and that the developer just eats it away and should not affect the final image. Is this a true statement?

[BradS]

Yep, I read about that... I am looking at the "kit" that includes all you said for $179.99. I should be able to use it also for 120 films, I assume, using the right reels.

I don't know about 120...I have a patterson tank for that.


I wonder if I should shell the money for a Jobo base so that it controls temperature and I could one day do also E6, since I would love to use some E6 on LF... That's a lot of money to add though, and the Jobo is so much bigger in size than the Uniroller is... really not what I am looking forward to put on my minuscule kitchen counter when developing...

I started with neither. With the orange cap on, the 2500 series tanks float. I just floated mine in a sink full of water and rotated it by hand.



So fingerprints don't ruin the actual image? I read somewhere that fingerprints are made essentially of oil and that the developer just eats it away and should not affect the final image. Is this a true statement?

Well...not if you're careful...no...dust and forgetting to close the shutter before pulling the dark slide are much bigger problems than fingerprints. Generally, when unloading film holders, one must kinda grip the very edge of the film. Not a big deal. Don't worry about fingerprints....

[Francesco Gallarotti]

...forgetting to close the shutter before pulling the dark slide are much bigger problems than fingerprints.
:)

Someone is selling a uniroller with two 8x10 tanks here on LFPF. I will try buying that and start by following the instructions here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

I also put up for sale my Fuji PA-45 and just purchased online a Polaroid 405 back in order to use the much less expensive Fuji FP-100c instead of the FP-100c45 for exposure tests.

All this in the effort of minimizing the costs of using my upcoming LF system, so I will be more interested in actually using it, instead of just using the MF system I have.

When I started all this, i had no idea it would have been so complex to put it all together. With my Hassie, three mouse clicks and I was up and running :D

Thank you all for your kind help!

Francesco

[Darryl Baird]

That's a good list, I use everything listed except the loader. I can load six sheets if I'm careful, but prefer to load four for ease and security from films sticking together (space between sheets is tiny). I'd skip the loader and buy more reels and another tank. I also use a 2521 tank for stand development with the 2509 reels. Beseler bases are ok too, but they rotate in one direction and are a bit faster than the Unicolor.

Fingerprints: wash your hands well with soap beforehand or use thin exam gloves.

I usually develop film at night when I can load and unload without the ambient light issues requiring a changing bag/tent. I work in the basement laundry room of our house.

-db


With some help from the Flickr LF group and from older LGPF posts, looks like the shopping list to develop 4x5 myself is:

1) Uniroller base
2) one Jobo 2551 tank (which holds 2 4x5 reels, each 6 sheets) -- apparently this is the smallest tank that would fit the uniroller base -- and the ending "1" in the item number means that it doesn't have a cog lid but a simple rubber red cap
3) two Jobo 2509N reels (to load the film sheets, each of them holds up to 6 sheets)

The question is... I see Jobo sells a Loader base and a Loader guide to be able to insert the film in the reel without ever touching it with your fingers... is this necessary?

Or can you easily handle the extraction from the film holder and insertion in the reel inside a changing tent without ever touching the surface?

Thanks,

Francesco

[Jim C.]

I've loaded 2509N reels without the sheet film loader and it's a pain, I invariably wind
up touching the surface of the sheet, I have the Jobo sheet loader but I haven't used it yet
but it seems to make the loading process a whole lot easier in my dry run tests.

[Sevo]

3) two Jobo 2509N reels (to load the film sheets, each of them holds up to 6 sheets)


Make that four - if you stuff the middle slots, you'll risk obstructed, uneven flow and striping. You may get away with six using some process as fault tolerant as C41, but all Jobo reps I ever talked to recommended four sheets only for E6, or similarily sensitive B&W processes.



The question is... I see Jobo sells a Loader base and a Loader guide to be able to insert the film in the reel without ever touching it with your fingers... is this necessary?


No. You'll better get used to using your fingers, as you may always have to pick up a dropped sheet, and will need to feel whether the sheets are properly inserted. Doing it with fingers and (cotton) gloves has no steeper learning curve than the loader, and is far more flexible and fault-proof...

Sevo

[venchka]

If it's within your budget, or you find a great deal like I did, go for the Jobo 3010 and Uniroller or Beseler base. I have the 2501 tank & 2509 reel and the loader thing and I have only used the combination once for semi-stand development. The 3010 tank is THE answer for 4x5 film on the motor bases.

[Paul Kierstead]

I don't use the loader and find it more trouble then loading without it. Maybe I am using it wrong. I load 6 sheets at a time (you do need to check carefully to make sure they are all in their slots) and never had problems with fingerprints; I avoid handling the emulsion side, but also ensure I have clean hands and keep the changing tent clean.

YMMV, clearly, on the loader.

[Francesco Gallarotti]

UPDATE:

Even though I was almost ready to buy the Jobo, I eventually decided to get the Uniroller with two 8x10 print drums for about $50. Much much cheaper and I think it should be more than enough for me to start.
Next will be the Photoflex changing room and finally the choice of film & chemicals ;-)

Then, I think I should have everything I need to start...
...except the camera! LOL...

Hugooooo ;-)