first time 4x5 help

[Kburg928]

Hello everyone,

I'm about to drift into uncharted territories, well uncharted to me. I normally shoot a Canon 5D and a Hasselblad with both film and Digital backs. I have a person project I'm working on that demands the best negative I can create and I'm leaning to a 4x5 field camera, the catch is I have no clue what I should get. I was looking at a used Toyo 45A and the Toyo 45CF. I plan on using the camera to shoot landscape and indoor shots of large machinery. I've never used a 4x5 but I've seen a few friends work with them and I'm sure I could get everything down.

Any input on what direction I should look at?

[Ron Marshall]

Hello everyone,

I'm about to drift into uncharted territories, well uncharted to me. I normally shoot a Canon 5D and a Hasselblad with both film and Digital backs. I have a person project I'm working on that demands the best negative I can create and I'm leaning to a 4x5 field camera, the catch is I have no clue what I should get. I was looking at a used Toyo 45A and the Toyo 45CF. I plan on using the camera to shoot landscape and indoor shots of large machinery. I've never used a 4x5 but I've seen a few friends work with them and I'm sure I could get everything down.

Any input on what direction I should look at?

If you haven't already, you should read these reviews of 4x5 cameras:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html

If I was in your position I would likely opt for a Chamonix.

[John Kasaian]

First, pick up a copy of Steve Simmons Using The View Camera.

There are lots of fine monorails going for a pittance these days. If you're working out of the trunk of your car they'll probably do nicely (I'm thinking Graphic Views, Calumet 400 series, early Sinars and Cambos) as would a flatbed like an Agfa Ansco Universal. If size and wieght are an issue a wooden clamshell type is a joy to work with.
What should be a primary concern is that whichever camera you choose has enough bellows extension to permit you to use the lens of your choice in the manner in which you want to use it.

[BradS]

The Toyo 45A field cameras are excellent. They are plentiful, robust, easy to set up and use, relatively inexpensive and wonderfully versatile.

[Brian Ellis]

I wouldn't buy the Toyo 45CF. It doesn't have back movements, which I think is a major omission and significantly diminishes one of the major reasons to use a LF camera (i.e. the ability to control the plane of focus and subject shape with camera movements).

[BradS]

I think that we need to look at the 45 CF for what it is. It is quite simply a modern, up-to-date Crown Graphic....with the added benefit that they fixed all the annoying crown graphic deficiencies.

The 45CF has front tilt in both directions,a reversible back, has an accessory shoe and uses the more commonly available lens boards and there is a very nice recessed lens board available for the toyo field cameras. So, if you look at the 45CF as a modern Crown Graphic, it is a really very nice camera.

The natural tendancy however is to compare the 45CF to its siblings the 45AX and 45A-II. This is an unfair comparison as they aren't even in the same league and, I don' think that the 45CF was intended to serve the same market...but, this marketing distinction is subtle and not well understood.

Other benefits of the 45CF:
Because it folds like a crown graphic, it is much easier and quicker to set up and put away. It is very light weight and rugged. It easily allows the lens to stay on the camera when folded - without having to turn it around backwards... I like 'em and would very happily trade my lovely crown graphic for a 45CF.

[lenser]

I f you go with a monorail. you may have limitations on use of wide angle lenses. Most use a recessed lens board which is a good compromise if you get something like the Cambos or Calumets with big recessed boards available. Some of the older ones are the devil to try to get to the shutter and f stop controls, so watch out for that.

Same situation with a field camera. Get one that can take a bag bellows for compression and movements for the wide angles.

I happen to use a Zone VI with bag bellows and I'm delighted. I also have lenses up to 375mm that I use with this with no problems. My mono rail is a Cambo SCX and the recessed board and bag bellows for that make for a great combination for really wide lenses.

The Zone VI and it's kit are quite a bit lighter and more portable than the Cambo system and don't require as heavy a tripod.

Tim

[Dave Jeffery]

Once you get an idea of what camera and lenses you would like Midwest Photo is a very reputable company that sells used large format cameras and lenses. The for sale section on this Large Format site is good as well.

http://www.mpex.com/

KEH camera is also good.

Badger Graphics also has a great website that has lots of pictures of new camera gear which I found very helpful while researching what to buy. I bought most of my new equipment from them and was very happy with Jeff's recommendations.

Also, I use Quickload film for hiking and Velvia 50 costs $99.95 per 20 sheet box at one retailer, and $69.99 at Samy's camera and Helix camera, so it's good to shop around.

I pay a little more to buy from my local camera store when they have what I need in stock, and I like to support them first whenever possible.

Hope this helps and Good Luck!

[Colin Corneau]

Allow me to chime in and recommend Freestyle Photo for supplies, too.

Terrific service, an amazing variety of material and quick shipping. Support those who support you, I say.

[Bill_1856]

If you can't get the quality you need/want with a Hasselblad and Canon 5D, then going to 4x5 isn't going to help you.
Save your money.

[jenn wilson]

LF involves commitment - of money and energy. If you have the slightest doubt about your next step with your project, borrow a friend's camera or rent one for a weekend. Try to get a feel for the format a little before you dive in and spend a fair chuck of money.

[Gene McCluney]

If you can't get the quality you need/want with a Hasselblad and Canon 5D, then going to 4x5 isn't going to help you.
Save your money.


While it is true that a Hasselblad with a film back can yield negatives that can be enlarged to wall size, it is not just about resolution..rather the "look" of a 4x5 or larger negative will be different and may be more sympathetic to the OP's desires. I seriously doubt one could digitally print a Canon 5D image to "wall" size, it is only 12 mpx.

[timparkin]

While it is true that a Hasselblad with a film back can yield negatives that can be enlarged to wall size, it is not just about resolution..rather the "look" of a 4x5 or larger negative will be different and may be more sympathetic to the OP's desires. I seriously doubt one could digitally print a Canon 5D image to "wall" size, it is only 12 mpx.

For an ad-hoc comparison of a 5D with an Epson V750 scanned 4x5, look here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timparkin/2226597863/

Having seen Chamonix in action, I can recommend them..

[Brian Ellis]

I think that we need to look at the 45 CF for what it is. It is quite simply a modern, up-to-date Crown Graphic....with the added benefit that they fixed all the annoying crown graphic deficiencies.

The 45CF has front tilt in both directions,a reversible back, has an accessory shoe and uses the more commonly available lens boards and there is a very nice recessed lens board available for the toyo field cameras. So, if you look at the 45CF as a modern Crown Graphic, it is a really very nice camera.

The natural tendancy however is to compare the 45CF to its siblings the 45AX and 45A-II. This is an unfair comparison as they aren't even in the same league and, I don' think that the 45CF was intended to serve the same market...but, this marketing distinction is subtle and not well understood.

Other benefits of the 45CF:
Because it folds like a crown graphic, it is much easier and quicker to set up and put away. It is very light weight and rugged. It easily allows the lens to stay on the camera when folded - without having to turn it around backwards... I like 'em and would very happily trade my lovely crown graphic for a 45CF.

If he was thinking of a Crown Graphic that would be an interesting comparison but he didn't mention a Crown Graphic and I wouldn't recommend a Crown Graphic to him either since he wants to do landscapes and industrial machinery, both of which can benefit from the availability of back movements (especially industrial machinery). So I'm not sure why the comparison to a Crown Graphic, it's as unsuitable for his purposes as the Toyo CF IMHO. There's just too many really nice 4x5 field cameras available today for about the same price as the CF but that are much more camera for me to recommend the CF to anyone who wants to do the things the OP talks about. But that's obviously just my opinion.

[Peter De Smidt]

First decide on what lenses you'd like to use. Some cameras work best with moderately wide to slightly long lenses, some with short lenses... Next, get advice about what camera to use with those lenses. Then, as someone has already mentioned, borrow or rent the equipment and try it on the type of subject and conditions that you want to use it for. Evaluate.

Note, lot's of commercial studios have large format equipment sitting around gathering dust. Approach them and see if you can borrow some equipment. Or bite the bullet and use a rental shop such as Calumet...

Using a view camera is quite different from using a 5D or Hassleblad with a digital back. (I work with both digital systems on a daily basis at work, and I use large format equipment regularly for my own work.)

Btw, my favorite location cameras are an Arca Swiss F-line classic for all-around use, a Sinar P2 if the "location" is very close to my car, and a Chamonix if I have to hike all day.

[BradS]

If he was thinking of a Crown Graphic that would be an interesting comparison but he didn't mention a Crown Graphic and I wouldn't recommend a Crown Graphic to him either since he wants to do landscapes and industrial machinery, both of which can benefit from the availability of back movements (especially industrial machinery). So I'm not sure why the comparison to a Crown Graphic, it's as unsuitable for his purposes as the Toyo CF IMHO. There's just too many really nice 4x5 field cameras available today for about the same price as the CF but that are much more camera for me to recommend the CF to anyone who wants to do the things the OP talks about. But that's obviously just my opinion.

Brian,

Yes. You are correct and I agree with you. There are certainly better choices for the purposes stated by the OP. I just think that the 45CF is a really neat camera. I thought I would take a moment to point out why i think that way. Guess it was not the right place for that.

[Kburg928]

Thanks for the input everyone,

I had one mess up in my original post, its not a person project its a personal project. As for the Canon and the Hasselblad they both give me great results, the Canon 5D limits out at a 24x36" print. Yes I could go larger and from a distance it would look good but it would look like hell from a normal distance, at least to me. The Hasselblad I like to print up to 40x40 and the quality is great but I have seen prints from 4x5 cameras and the look is what I'm after, that's why I want it plus the negs are very nice and running them though a drum scanner should give me great results.

I have a friend shipping me a few of his 4x5s that he doesn't use anymore, I'll only have to figure out what lenses to pick up. I normally shot wides