View Full Version : Identifying Sinar Rear Standards - 4x5 and 8x10

Frank Petronio
19-Aug-2008, 20:53
I am a bit bewildered... I know about and have owned 4x5 Sinar Fs- F2s - Normas, but as I move to 8x10 (and probably the P system) I am looking around and sometimes I see '8x10 P rear standard" and then I read again about how modular the Sinar system is and am baffled... How freaking modular is it if I have to get an 8x10 P rear standard to replace my perfectly good 4x5 P rear standard? And how do I even tell what an 8x10 rear standard even looks like -- how is different?

And then the MB and non-MB backs... do the MB backs fit on the older chrome P standards?

Are all the P2 cameras MB versions?

(Who in the world ever actually used the darn metering back anyway!? Elves in Switzerland?)

Nobody, least of all Sinar, has ever posted a really complete explanation, at least as far as I can search. So maybe David Goldfarb and few other Sinar experts can enlighten me? Thanks!

David A. Goldfarb
19-Aug-2008, 21:10
I've only looked closely at the 8x10" P standard, but according to the instruction sheet I have there was a "normal" and a "special" rear standard bearer. The difference was that the "special" one has the set screw for locking the swing, and I'm guessing this would be better for the heavier 8x10" rear standard frame. I have it, and I do use that feature occasionally.

The 8x10" metering back will fit the older P standard bearer, but it uses a larger bellows. I have the older back, which uses the smaller 8x10" Norma sized bellows. The 4x5" metering back uses the same bellows as the non-metering back.

I think P2s all come with the metering back, which seems much more common than smaller backs like mine. I bought and sold three bag bellows before I found one the right size.

Lorenz Koch and Thierry Hagenauer from Sinar hang out on openphotographyforums.com, so you might ask them about such things, but they seem much more engaged in talking about the latest Sinar digital developments--Hy6, digital backs, and the new arTec camera.

I met the guy who sells on eBay as "apogeebee," and he seems very knowledgeable about all the Sinar minutiae. He's a NYC studio photographer who has a little sideline buying and selling used Sinar stuff (at higher prices than I'm usually willing to pay).

Peter De Smidt
19-Aug-2008, 21:37

You can certainly use an 8x10 changing kit to turn a 4x5 P into an 8x10. It'll work fine. An 8x10 rear standard has more rise, and it's built like a "T" instead of an "L", and so it's a little more stable than the 4x5 P rear standard. The latter, though, is already plenty sturdy.

Personally, I prefer the non-metered backs, as they're lighter, and I really don't see the need for film plane probe. I have access to one, and I've never even bothered to use it. Figuring out bellows factors isn't very hard.

I'm a big fan of the Sinar P, P2 and P3 cameras. While some other cameras might be their equal, there are none better for studio work. In addition, and unlike Arca Swiss, Sinar has a very wide range of accessories that are available for a reasonable amount on the used market.

Ron Marshall
19-Aug-2008, 21:39
You've probably seen this site, which has photos of the different 8x10 backs for the P:


Keith Pitman
19-Aug-2008, 22:08
You can use an 8x10 back on a 4x5 rear standard just fine, but you have to adjust the rise/fall and shift on both the front and rear standards to get the lens centered to the film.

Frank Petronio
19-Aug-2008, 22:46
If, in my bottomfeeder cobbling of an 8x10 Sinar from random auctions and firesales, if I still can't find a genuine 8x10 F/F1/F2 front -- and am forced to use a 4x5 F/F1/F2 front -- is there a cheap and easy way to find extensions for the riser posts so I can get some front rise for 8x10? I have asked the larger dealers and nobody has ever seen them for sale, although clearly it looks like you simply screw some extensions onto the existing female threads in those rise posts... and I think I've seen them in the exploded system drawings.

Likewise, is their a "higher rise" P front standard for 8x10 that goes higher than the 4x5? (If I should go with a P.)

(An aside: I am leaning towards just buying an 8x10 P and keeping it simple, but it's good to know these options. If I find a good 8x10 conversion kit or an F2 back I might go for it and combine it with a 4x5 to build an 8x10.)

Finally, which backpack should I get for the 8x10 P?

(that's a joke)

Greg Lockrey
19-Aug-2008, 23:33
Finally, which backpack should I get for the 8x10 P?

(that's a joke)

A Hyster. :D :D :D

Jerry Flynn
20-Aug-2008, 09:24

Like you, I wondered if there were extension posts that could screw into the bottom of the front standard risers. My local authorized repair station inquired, but apparently never got an answer for me. The extensions would not be complex. Perhaps a local machine shop?

I think I have only seen the actual f2 front once on Ebay. The posts are thicker and spring loaded (similar to the rear). There was a special front standard for the 8X10 P as well. I am not at home, so I can't look up the part number, but I'll try to remember to do so.

I think the front rise/rear fall has always been a drawback on Sinar 8X10 regardless of model. You can always use the offset method, but something simpler would be better.


Pete Roody
20-Aug-2008, 13:41

Make sure to check the bellows (or have the seller check it) for light leaks. The P series bellows can be quite old and many used ones have pinholes.

erie patsellis
20-Aug-2008, 19:22
One thing to note if you do find a T style 8x10 rear carrier (with the locking screw). If it's been on display in a retail store, there's a real likelyhood that at some point, somebody tried tilting with the screw locked (which chews up the tilt gear). Take a close look at the gear, on the one I bought, the gear had a few broken teeth, which rapidly got worse, granted, it's only a $25 part and about 10 mins to change (and the seller compensated me quite well for that and some other irregularities), but it's better to know than find out the hard way.