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View Full Version : which darkcloth for Chamonix?



stompyq
18-Aug-2008, 18:17
I'am the happy owner of a new chamonix thanks to hugo. The camera is great but i'am going crazy when using my blackjacket dark cloth with it. The damn thing just wouldn't stay attached!! I've not had any issues with it with my old wista DX but b/c of the design of the chamonix the blackjacket keeps coming off!! It's maddening:mad: . What do you guys use?

Daniel_Buck
18-Aug-2008, 18:28
I've been using a black t-shirt, neck-hole around the camera, sick my head through the waist hole.

Peter De Smidt
18-Aug-2008, 18:48
Hi Stompyq,

I have the same problem with my black jacket. Before the black jacket, which works great with my Sinar btw., I used a black t-shirt like Daniel or a heavy dark sweatshirt. I'll have to give that a try again.

Brian Ellis
19-Aug-2008, 08:12
BTZS hood. www.theviewcamerastore.com

IanG
19-Aug-2008, 08:25
Back in the late 70's I made 2 from an old red velvet curtain which I dyed black, they are only just wearing out now.

Ian

Aahx
19-Aug-2008, 09:22
BTZS hood. www.theviewcamerastore.com

You know I bought one of those and hate it for my Chamoinx... The elastic compressed the bellows if I push it foward, and the seam at the bottom interfieres with focusing if I pull it back so it's not compressing the bellows. It also is pain to use when trying rear tilt. So I am back to using my old hand made lightwieght 2.5' x 2.5' cloth with little velcro strip on two corners.

davemiller
19-Aug-2008, 10:42
I use a BTZS hood and I must admit it has taken a while to get used to it, but I wouldn't change know. The link by the way is http://www.viewcamerastore.com/

Keith S. Walklet
19-Aug-2008, 12:43
As Peter has pointed out, the BLACKJACKET neck size is not an idle choice. If one has selected a 32" neck, perfectly suited for cameras such as the Linhof Master Teknika, Wista metal field, Tachihara, it will do fine. Try and put that 32" same neck on a Technikardan, and it won't be big enough. That is why I sell larger neck sizes, such as the 40" and 46", which can be used with cameras such as the Shen Hao, Ebony and Lotus, and monorails.

So if one is expecting to work with a series of progressively larger cameras, or a mix of monorail and field cameras, they should choose the larger neck size.

The shock-cord threaded through the neck permits the neck to be reduced in size, and more importantly, released so that one doesn't disturb their composition when removing the cloth from the camera (if they choose).

If I might add, I find one of the great things about the large format community is that it is small enough that you are often speaking to the actual designer/manufacturer. That conversation is something that should happen, and that you, as customers should take advantage of.

If you recall, I created the BLACKJACKET out of frustration with the cloths I had been using. So I understand frustratation, and I work very hard to do what I can to minimize it. So, when you are buying one of my cloths, you are dealing with the person that makes the decisions, hears from the customers, makes the modifications and ships your product. I encourage you to communicate. I listen.

stompyq
19-Aug-2008, 13:11
Keith i use the 32" necksize. My problem is the blackjacket just dosen't stay on the chamonix and there is so much light coming from the bottom b/c of the open design (and worm drive) that it's difficult to focus in bright light.

mealers
19-Aug-2008, 14:08
You know I bought one of those and hate it for my Chamoinx... The elastic compressed the bellows if I push it foward, and the seam at the bottom interfieres with focusing if I pull it back so it's not compressing the bellows. It also is pain to use when trying rear tilt.
I've had the same problem using the BTZS with my Shen Hao. I'm thinking of modifying it and adding a draw string like the Black Jacket.
Has anyone else tried anything similar?
Maybe it could work with the Chamonix?

BarryS
19-Aug-2008, 14:46
I have the BlackJacket and I haven't had any issues with it falling off, however, I think it overwhelms the small, light Chamonix 4x5. It's a lot of fabric hanging off of a small camera. I may modify mine to make it shorter and narrower with shorter sleeves, but haven't found the time. I did get one of the new Chamonix folding focusing hoods and will be posting a mini-review in the next day or two.

Keith S. Walklet
19-Aug-2008, 15:23
stompyq, the neck size you have is made for smaller cabinets and won't encompass the camera back and rail, which is the preferred position for the cloth on the Chamonix.

A larger neck lets you get around the focusing bed and the camera back. But, when it is necessary to encompass the entire camera with the neck of the cloth, as is advised with the Shen Hao, Lotus, Ebony, Chanomix and any monorail, the gap (between the bottom of the camera and the rail, or in the case of a folding field camera, the clearance that permits the camera to fold), lets a lot of light in. The BLACKBAG accessory that ships with every BLACKJACKET serves as a light skirt to block that gap.

The BLACKBAG was a solution that was developed specifically from conversations on this forum. I think it works very well and makes an impossible situation tolerable.

Save the funny-looking commentator, the google video demo does a better job of describing its operation. See http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8943086050994650067

Peter De Smidt
19-Aug-2008, 16:50
I have the 8x10 Blackjacket and it works very well on my Sinar P, both with 8x10 and 4x5, but I haven't been too happy so far with it and the Chamonix. Admittedly, though, I've been using very wide angle lenses, 47 to 72mm, which means that there's even less camera for the BlackJacket to hang onto.

Tzabcan
20-Aug-2008, 08:53
I use the Chamonix folding viewer which is amazing...

Brian Ellis
20-Aug-2008, 09:32
You know I bought one of those and hate it for my Chamoinx... The elastic compressed the bellows if I push it foward, and the seam at the bottom interfieres with focusing if I pull it back so it's not compressing the bellows. It also is pain to use when trying rear tilt. So I am back to using my old hand made lightwieght 2.5' x 2.5' cloth with little velcro strip on two corners.

Strange, I didn't have that problem with my Chamonix and the BTZS hood. However, I used mine very little before selling it, maybe I would have noticed a problem if I had used the camera more. Or maybe they've changed the hood a little, I've had mine for about 10 years.

jasonjoo
20-Aug-2008, 09:50
I have the BlackJacket and I haven't had any issues with it falling off, however, I think it overwhelms the small, light Chamonix 4x5. It's a lot of fabric hanging off of a small camera. I may modify mine to make it shorter and narrower with shorter sleeves, but haven't found the time. I did get one of the new Chamonix folding focusing hoods and will be posting a mini-review in the next day or two.

Barry, I'm waiting for that review! I did not know Chamonix were making accessories such as this, but it would sure beat using a darkcloth at times. As of now, I'm using a bath towel until I have the time to sew up something!

Jason

Aahx
20-Aug-2008, 10:29
Strange, I didn't have that problem with my Chamonix and the BTZS hood. However, I used mine very little before selling it, maybe I would have noticed a problem if I had used the camera more. Or maybe they've changed the hood a little, I've had mine for about 10 years.


It quite possibly is the way I use my view camera. I feel much more comfortable using rear tilt as opposed to front tilt for my landscape work. And with just a drape type cloth I can work on the camera under the cloth without it getting in the way. I feel constricted under the BTZS hood trying to access those side mounted controls, as well as the focusing knob at the bottom on the Chamonix.

chy
20-Aug-2008, 14:03
Good lord, you guys make me feel like a neanderthal! I'm still using a nearly 30-year old piece of black cloth with metal nuts sewn into the corners. It does slip off now and then, but since my knuckles drag on the ground it's easy to pick it up :D

Robert Fisher
20-Aug-2008, 14:24
Yikes, do you actually have to buy a designer item to adorn a Chamonix?

WalMart sells huge black towels (made in China) for $4.

Jeffrey Sipress
20-Aug-2008, 15:07
Add two screws not fully engaged on each the top and bottom of the rear standard. That will help the darn thing from sliding off. Frankly, I don't know how anyone can use that jacket thing and have a pleasant experience.

Keith S. Walklet
22-Aug-2008, 16:07
Peter, since the cloth works well with your P's, we should chat about how we could improve the performance with the Chamonix as well.

BarryS, I've spoken with the folks that do my custom work and they say they can make your alterations for $15, plus shipping.

If you are interested following through, the best way to illustrate the changes you wish to make is to get a bunch of large binder clips and pin the cloth with the clips where you want the fabric taken in. This is also how you can experiment to see how well the diminished volume works, to fine tune what you are after.

Current turn-around for an alteration of that type is about two weeks.

Jeffrey, I just googled "suffering for art" and got 14,900,000 hits, so maybe that's part of the allure. ;-)

George Hofmann
23-Aug-2008, 14:13
I took my new Blackjacket out to try it on my new Chamonix today. It is sunny and about 85 here. Wow was it warm and stuffy in there (and I have the white one). Also it didn't seem very convenient to operate the focus knob. It almost seems to me like the sleeves are mounted too high. I had expected to be able to stick my arms up inside from the bottom but it's really from high up on the sides. Seems uncomfortable to me. I also noticed that it will mash the bellows if you are not careful about where it is mounted.

So then I took Daniel Buck's advice and tried a black tee shirt. It works perfectly! Not so hot, short sleeves that are easy to get into, stretchy, easy on the bellows, easy to mount and deal with. It's not as dark in there but it's dark enough.

So I think my BJ will soon show up on that well-known auction site. Maybe it will work better on somebody else's camera.

George

Paul O
23-Aug-2008, 14:45
I think it's safe to say that finding the "perfect" darkcloth is likened to the search for the holy grail. I think that it comes down to personal choice/preference/perseverence! Black t-shirts are fine but they don't create a dark enough environment for me but the Blackjacket (although not perfect) comes VERY close to an ideal set-up. It is one of those items that don't "work straight out of the packet" for everyone but once a routine is developed I find them very easy and instinctive to use. The negatives seem to be as a rsult of users choosing a BJacket with too small a neck opening and then tightening the drawstring too much. The recent addition of the "light baffle" also improves viewing. I like 'em!!

Len Eselson
22-Sep-2008, 18:14
I suppose that there are many satisfied users of various dark cloths, and that is OK.
In my case I used the Blackjacket with my Tech IV, and it did the job nicely for me. When the Chamonix 4X5 arrived it just plain didn't work.

After a few emails and calls to Keith Walklet, (a great guy to do business with), and a few pictures and measurements of the Chamonix he determined that a 40" neck would do the job. I was just able to get around to trying it (a bit of surgery had me on ice for a while) and I am happy to report that the Blackjacket worked as well as ever.

The main concern was whether it would fit with the rear standard in the extreme forward position. It did. No Problem. Keith has a videl http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8943086050994650067

which illustrates how it works. Ignore the fact that its subject is a 5X7 monorail. The technique is the same with the 40" on a Chamonix 4X5

So if you are the Blackjacket type, go for the 40 inch size. If you prefer black T-shirts I can' help you pick the right size.

Len Eselson

Peter De Smidt
22-Sep-2008, 18:22
Hi Len,

Thanks for the report. It's something I'll certainly consider.

Jay Wolfe
22-Sep-2008, 19:08
If a darkcloth will not stay on the camera as is, try using Velcro (a recent innovation!!), otherwise binder or spring clips work well.

ljsegil
23-Sep-2008, 08:33
I've been very happy with different Blackjackets at various times on a Technika Master, Canham 5x7, and Canham 8x10, but it does need to be sized correctly for the camera. There are some innovations for film loading on the 8x10 version that have worked quite nicely for me and enable shooting without removing the dark cloth (there is adequate room for loading film holders under the 4x5 and 5x7 cloths without necessitating their removal). The hybrid is quite a bit cooler than the BTZS cloth for my usual lengthy trials of maladjustment of the camera; a big benefit in my comfort level.
Of course this is a Chamonix thread, and I have absolutely no experience with their cameras and therefore, when you come down to it, really nothing to contribute to answering the OP's original question, so consider this so much hot air (trapped under soome darkcloth or another).
LJS

bbjorkum
23-Sep-2008, 13:30
A short denim skirt.