Sinar F / F1 / F2??? How can I tell?

[folsombob]

Hello all,

I just joined the forums here and have a couple of basic questions.

Recently, I seized a good opportunity to purchase a Sinar F. It appears to be a kit as it came in an aluminum case, with ball head, Fujinon F/5.6 210mm, two extra lens boards, Polaroid pack, rails, soft bellows extension, etc.

Everywhere I look, I read that the F1 and F2 are similar except for... but I am unable to see any photos close enough to see.

On mine, the focusing/DOF knob has two scales -- 4x5 and 6x9, and "Sinar f"

Is that what it is, an "f" but not an "f1" or "f2"?

How can I determine for sure what model it is?

Also, where would you recommend I go for a manual, once I determine the specific model?

I have enjoyed both of my Crown Graphics, and look forward to the extra movements and controls.

Thanks, in advance, for your help. This looks like a great forum!

folsombob

[Frank Petronio]

First there was the Sinar F, which you see with a chrome rail and a low profile plastic tripod mount. It had geared fine focus on the heavier rear standard and a lighter, smaller front standard that slid on the rail for rough manual friction focusing. The light front standard sometimes broke but overall they are a good value.

Then there came the F+ which substituted the taller all-metal tripod mount.

in the mid-80s Sinar made their cameras black.... So the F1 is essentially the F+ but in black, with knurled kobs instead of plastic.

The F2 has a heavier, geared fine focus on both the front and rear standards. It is slightly heavier and bulkier but the front standard is much heavier, and able to hold heavier lenses. It is the best of the F-series and gets the highest price. It has the most metal ;-)

I've seen early beat-up Fs that are perfectly usable sell for under $300. A clean F2 might sell for $600 to $800. Many of the Sinars for sale are assembled from a hodge-podge of parts so they aren't always set up as factory fresh cameras.

Note that you can buy an earlier design, made from metal and with much higher quality build quality, Sinar Norma for less than an F2

You can also do what I've done and buy several beaters and assemble the perfect camera from the parts, reselling the left over parts and getting your camera for free if you are patient and a little lucky with eBay.

[Jerry Flynn]

Frank pretty much covered the ground for differences except for one thing. The f1 and f2 (and a2, for that matter) have a different swing/tilt calculator. On the earlier cameras, there was a pointer and scale on the left hand side of the rear carrier that was used for the calculation. The f1 and f2 have a dial calculator. The advantage is that the dial can be zeroed out after making any fine focusing adjustments on the rear standard. With th old system, you would have to note where the pointer was when you started and then subtract that from the calculated results.

[folsombob]

Thanks Frank and Jerry

Very thorough replies.
I am still unsure which I have, because I don't know the parts of the camera.

Where would you recommend I go for a manual, once I determine the specific model?

It would appear that I have the older camera because I have a pointer and scale on the left hand side of the rear carrier, but I also have one (I think it is ;-) on the front.

folsombo

[m.bruehl]

Hi,

what about posting some detailed pictures, then we can tell ...

Regards

Michael

[David E. Rose]

There is another difference between the early F and the later f-1/2. The early F has shorter rods for rise/fall than the later cameras. This can actually be an advantage, as the shorter rods and smaller tripod block make the camera a smaller package for transport. There is still plenty of rise/fall available, way more than the coverage of most lenses, and you could always use a combination of sloped monorail and tilts to get more if you need it. I would miss the later DOF calculator though!

[Frank Petronio]

The smaller mounting block would be an advantage if it weren't made of plastic that cracks very easily.... the later metal block is twice the size but much stronger (it is the same mount as is used over the entire line up to the 8x10 P2).

[David E. Rose]

Frank,
I believe I have heard of people using a Norma clamp with an F for it's strength and compactness. Good luck finding one though!

[mortuus]

Another way to determine the difference between the F, F1 & F2:

F = Rear geared focusing only. One lever for both swing and shift.
F1 = Front and rear geared focusing. One lever for both swing and shift.
F2 = Front and rear geared focusing. Separate levers for swing and shift.

Hope this helps.

[David E. Rose]

Another way to determine the difference between the F, F1 & F2:

F = Rear geared focusing only. One lever for both swing and shift.
F1 = Front and rear geared focusing. One lever for both swing and shift.
F2 = Front and rear geared focusing. Separate levers for swing and shift.

Not exactly. I have an F-1 and an F-2. The F-1 does not have geared front focus, it slides only. The F-2 has a geared front focus.

[mortuus]

Another way to determine the difference between the F, F1 & F2:

F = Rear geared focusing only. One lever for both swing and shift.
F1 = Front and rear geared focusing. One lever for both swing and shift.
F2 = Front and rear geared focusing. Separate levers for swing and shift.

Not exactly. I have an F-1 and an F-2. The F-1 does not have geared front focus, it slides only. The F-2 has a geared front focus.

Puzzling. I used to own what I came to believe to be a F1, with front AND rear geared focusing, and shared levers for swing/shift. What model may that have been then? A F1.5, maybe ? :)

[David E. Rose]

Puzzling. I used to own what I came to believe to be a F1, with front AND rear geared focusing, and shared levers for swing/shift. What model may that have been then? A F1.5, maybe ?

I believe that would be an early F-2. I think the seperate levers were a later improvement.