8x10 film holders

[Joan Girdler]

Am brand new to large format of any kind and am having trouble with film falling out of
the film holder when the dark slide is either removed or being replaced. How do I fix this expensive problem? thank you::confused:

[Kent Berquist]

I suspect that you are loading the film above the film guide rather than below it. The darklide then catches the film and disloges it. Take a look at your filmholder in the light of day and you will see a film guide (for lack of a better term) an inch or so in up the holder. Be sure to feel for this guide in the dark when you are loading your film.
Regards,
Kent

[Don7x17]

Am brand new to large format of any kind and am having trouble with film falling out of
the film holder when the dark slide is either removed or being replaced. How do I fix this expensive problem? thank you::confused:

Joan

I presume that you have the proper sized holder from your film (eg 4x5 inch for 4x5 and not some cm dimensioned holders from Europe that are close but not correctly sized).

You don't mention what type of holders you have. If they are the proper size (you'll usually see them marked somewhere in either plastic or wood holders), and If you have older wooden holders, you may have plate holders, rather than film holders.

Presuming neither is the case, then either

you are missing (during loading) one or both of the tracks to keep the film BELOW the darkslide and next to the inner septum separating the two sides of the holder (and if this were the case you might have troubles inserting the darkslide after pulling it for use in the camera and it would pop the film out into the camera as you pushed it back in)

OR

You have something wrong with the holders....like missing film tracks (maybe someone butchered a film holder by removing the tracks and part of the end flap to form a plate holder...)

Can you post a picture of a piece of scrap film (undeveloped) positioned in the holder if none of these cover the problem?

[eddie]

hi,

i only pull the ds OUT A BIT when i load the holders. this helps. i am attaching two photos to help describe this. you need to be sure the film is below the "guides" i am pointingto one of the guides in the second photo.

in the 1st photo i have pulled the DS out a bit further than i normally do. you can see the (picture/film). you can see the two guides.

you are having your problem most likely cause the film is not under both guides.

you can feel the guides in the dark.

eddie

[Joan Girdler]

Thank you all for helping me. I am going to try loading again following the advise you all have so generously given. Joan

[Frank Petronio]

Take the now-ruined film and practice in the daylight... all the way through pretend shooting and loading the Jobo.

[Ernest Purdum]

One possibility is that you have plate holders. To use film with these you need adapters. These are thin sheet metal pieces with three edges rolled over. You slide the film in from the open end, then put the combination into the plate holder. If you can't find any to buy, a sheet-metal shop can make them fairly easily.

[Frank Bagbey]

Practice loading in the daylight with the film you have already ruined. You will get the hang of it and understand how it works. 8x10 is a bit tricky compared to smaller sizes. Practice, practice, practice if that is what it takes. You will also understand emulsion side, notch in the correct finger, etc.

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Joan,

In 4x5 work I had an intermittent problem where I would take a shot and put the dark slide back in place only to find it would jam and eventually eject the film into the camera. Even though I was quick to move the film back into the holder it was ruined (just joking of course). After several times with this happening, I marked what I thought was the suspect holder and sure enough there was one in particular giving me grief. I could not see anything wrong with it and finally ended up tossing it.


... 8x10 is a bit tricky compared to smaller sizes..... .

Hi Frank,

I am about to start my journey up the 8x10 road (tomorrow in fact). What are some of the tricky things? I am thinking the larger film being so floppy is one.

Tim

[Vaughn]

Tim, one thing that gets tricky as one goes up in size is the film bowing (you are right about it being more "floppy"). So one has to be careful when shooting with the camera pointed down. 11x14 can be a bugger for that.

The film also seems to want to move within the holders more -- I have lost many shots due to the film moving in the holder during long exposures. I think it gets caught slightly at an angle in the holder, and "falls" to the normal position during the exposure...one can see move movement on the neg in one corner more than the opposite corner. I now habitually tap the holder in the palm of my hand a couple times to settle the neg before I load the holder into the camera. I can't recall having this problem with 4x5 or 5x7.

Your problem with the 4x5 holder...some 4x5 holders will allow you to accidently load the film above the inner rails without interfering with the darkslide (not until you use it, anyway), some won't. Don't know if that was your problem.

But I usually feel for the ends of the inner rails with my finger tips, just to make sure the film is loaded right -- even after 30 years of loading holders.

Vaughn

[Louie Powell]

As others have noted, you can feel the film guides with your fingers while loading the holder.

But a trick that is helpful is after loading the film, slip a finger under the sheet of film and gently lift up. If the film is loaded properly, it will simply bend evenly across its width. But if you have loaded it incorrectly, the side that is not under the film guide will come out of the holder altogether.

I've been loading holders for many years, and I still occasionally find that I miss the guide rail in a holder. It's just another in the long list of ways to screw up.

[Vaughn]

Another thing I do is put a finger on the edge of the film at the notches...if the film wiggles freely back and forth, it is loaded correctly.

Vaughn

[Ole Tjugen]

... I presume that you have the proper sized holder from your film (eg 4x5 inch for 4x5 and not some cm dimensioned holders from Europe that are close but not correctly sized). ...

Not likely. That's only possible with 13x18cm / 5x7"; all other cm sizes are different enough from the "inchers" that it's impossible to get it wrong.

[don12x20]

Not likely. That's only possible with 13x18cm / 5x7"; all other cm sizes are different enough from the "inchers" that it's impossible to get it wrong.

Ole
Can you list the common cm sizes? We don't see many of them on this side of the pond.
Thanks

[Ole Tjugen]

Ole
Can you list the common cm sizes? We don't see many of them on this side of the pond.
Thanks

Easy:

6.5x9cm, 9x12cm, (10x15cm), 13x18cm, 18x24cm, (24x30cm, 30x40cm, 40x50cm).

The ones in parentheses are less common, and mostly found in old plate cameras (or newer Russian plate cameras).

[Peter K]

There was also the 12 x 16,5 cm plate and film size.

For this size an adapter for the Technika III 13x18cm/5x7" was aviable in the fifties.

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Vaughn,

Thanks for these tips. I am very concerned about the 8x10 film laying flat against the holder and will watch out when pointing downwards. Oddly enough I was shooting a Rose last night and was pointing slightly downward with the 4x5.

The tip to settle the film is a real good one and I will watch out for this. This must have been a very difficult problem to track down.

I believe from your description I check the film is not on the slide rail in much the same way. I get an occasional shot where the film was not centered when exposed (borders are way crooked), which is odd but doesn't cause a problem.

With the 8x10 I am concerned with placing the slide back into the holder and causing a light lead while doing so. We will see how it plays out.

I did not wish to hijack Joan's original thread - please accept my apology.

---
Tim

[Vaughn]

snip...I did not wish to hijack Joan's original thread - please accept my apology.Tim

No apology should be needed. I believe such "hijacking" is actually beneficial as the original poster asked about problems with holders, and such tangents can offen provide the OP (and others) with answers they have not even thought to ask yet.

Those relatively new to LF will always discover interesting problems along the way, while those of us that have been using them for years have had t he opportunity to make most of the mistakes (and repeat them a few times) already. For example, I always fire the shutter off a few times before pulling the darkslide. This insures that I did not leave the lens open (again) and lets me know that t he shutter is all ready to go. It is a habit that has paid off in a box of film at least!LOL!

Concerning larger formats, at one time I was using a piece of two-sided tape in the middle of the holder to secure the film. In theory, this worked well -- no film movement during exposures. But it made it a hassle to load the film, and if the film was in the holders a long time, I'd end up with tape residue on the back of the film. I used a tape that had a light grip on one side (towards the film) and a medium grip on the other side. I eventually removed all the tape, and settling the film before loading (if I remember to do it!) has been good enough.

Bowing of the film can still be a problem with 8x10 when pointed down quite a bit (roughly 45 degrees or more) -- if it happens during exposure, one gets a doubled image in the center of the image. If it happens before one opens the shutter, one can get a soft focus area in the center -- even with the lens closed way down.

Pulling the darkslides can be more problematic with 8x10 and larger. Older cameras may not have as strong of springs which compounds the problem. One hand holding the back tight against the camera and carefully pulling the slide straight out with the other hand is enough. But even with 4x5, pulling the slide a bit towards you while you pull it out risks light leaks.

It is also my habit now of always having the darkcloth over the back of the camera when removing the slide, exposing the film and replacing the slide. In theory, it should not be needed if everything is light-tight on the camera. So much for theory...I have lost negs that way, too (the baffeling of the Zone VI 8x10 back is minimal).

Vaughn