Best field camera with movments

[gflanslo]

I love using camera movements so I've kept to using a monorail for everything but I really want to do some hiking with my camera. I've tried packing and hiking with my monorail equipment but I can't get more then 200 yards from my car without needing a Gatorade and cliff bar.

Which field cameras have the best 'overall' movements? I realize this is subjective but I'd love to hear what cameras/movements other people are using and for what purposes, i.e. obtaining a greater dof, architecture, or selective focus.

I've read that the Shen-hao hza has great rear standard movements while the Chomonix had more front standard moments. I'm looking seriously at these two cameras because I'm on a budget and these both seem to get really great reviews. Weight is really not that big of a concern. Other suggestion other than the Shen and Chomonix are appreciated.

[Ron Marshall]

An option for a light monorail is the 3 pound Toho:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

[Bill_1856]

I believe that some of the WISTAs have rear shift?
I don't understand why you state that you can't go 200 yards from your car without energy boosters, yet you indicate that weight is not really that big of a concern.

[gflanslo]

The 200 yard comment was just a joke. The really problem is that it's too cumbersome and awkward to hike with my monorail.

[mrladewig]

The Tachihara is a great field camera because it is light, but it is more limited in movements than other cameras. It has front rise/fall/swing/tilt and rear swing and tilt. By combining front and rear swing you can accomplish a shift. I backpack in Colorado with my Tachihara and related kit and can't imagine wanting a different camera. Weight is a huge concern for me as my backpacking kit with the 4X5 and digital slr weighs 65 pounds.

I know one of the Ebony models is very full featured in regards to movements, but it is heavy compared to the other ebony models. I can't ever keep all their models straight, but I'm pretty sure the one with full movements is also the most expensive.

[Bruce Watson]

An option for a light monorail is the 3 pound Toho:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

Second that. I've had a Toho for what, six or seven years now, and I never look at another camera because this one has everything I need. Including full movements on both standards (like a good monorail should). And it's quite easy to pack and deal with on location.

I should also point out that the weight of the camera does make a disproportionate difference in backpacking. Because a lighter camera lets you use a lighter tripod head and a lighter tripod, etc. I'm just sayin' that it's worth considering.

[gflanslo]

Thanks for the pointer to the Toho, I didn't know they existed. What a great camera and It looks like a great candidate for my use. It's about double the expense of the Shen although I can see myself using this camera for quite a long time and I could sell my current monorail since the Toho could fill in for the studio work as well. I'm going to have to start saving all my penny's for this one if I decided on it. Bagger currently has them listed at $1,425.

[Kuzano]

Light monorail from Gowland ...the Gowland pocket... made in various formats and with varied movement options. The design always seemed to be evolving with regard to various rise, shift, tilt movements. There was an all movements model. You can see a couple of variations on the Gowland web site. http://www.petergowland.com/camera/
They were also branded for Calumet. Simple two piece monorail weighing 2.5 to 3 pounds.

Also, a little heavier, but with all movements at a very reasonable price... often found for $350 to $500 depending on accessories. I've seen them periodically on eBay. The calumet cadet. Monorail with L front and rear standards.

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

[Ron Marshall]

Thanks for the pointer to the Toho, I didn't know they existed. What a great camera and It looks like a great candidate for my use. It's about double the expense of the Shen although I can see myself using this camera for quite a long time and I could sell my current monorail since the Toho could fill in for the studio work as well. I'm going to have to start saving all my penny's for this one if I decided on it. Bagger currently has them listed at $1,425.

I use from 55mm to 450mm on mine. Very happy with it!

[Bob Salomon]

What is the budget?

There is always the TechniKardan 45, if the budget permits.

[gflanslo]

I think $1,400 is about the max for my budget. I really liked the pricing on the Shen and Chomonix but there are several other camera's that have gotten my attention. How much to TechniKardan's go for?

[Daniel_Buck]

the chamonix does have good movemens (minus rear rise/fall), be aware of the rear standard's movements though, rear shift and swing are linked together in an odd way. This may make 'technical' shooting (like architecture?) a bit more difficult (or at least different). I have found that it doesn't bother me at all, but it's different than the design of most cameras. That said, the chamonix does provide good movements, way more than I've ever needed :-)

[Mark_S]

I have two field cameras, both with good movements:
For 4x5 I use a Walker Titan SF
Bellows extension >430mm
Front rise and fill
Front tilt, both base and axis
Front swing
Front shift
Rear tilt (forward and back)
Rear Swing
Rear Shift
Full specs here:
http://www.walkercameras.com/titan-sf-4x5-03.html
Very pleased with this camera. The long bellows allows me to do some nice closeup work. Only gripe is that it is bigger and heavier than most 4x5 field cameras.



For 8x10, I use a Century Universal:
It has rear tilt and swing
Front rise and fall
Front tilt (axis)
Front swing
Front shift
Bellows extension in excess of 750mm

The century universal is great as a lightweight 8x10 field camera for backpacking, my only 2 gripes with it are that at long bellows extensions, the camera is not as stable as I would like, and the warranty has expired.

[Rick-okc]

I have the Shen-hao and the Chaminox 4x5. Both are very good cameras. The Shen-hao does have very good movements on the back standard. I think a bit better than the Chaminox. The Chaminox is a bit lighter. I've decided to keep my Chaminox and sell the Shen-hao, if you're interested.

[Bob Salomon]

I think $1,400 is about the max for my budget. I really liked the pricing on the Shen and Chomonix but there are several other camera's that have gotten my attention. How much to TechniKardan's go for?

New, thousands more then your budget. Used about 50% more then your budget, or more. The TK 45S is a $6100.00 list price camera. The new Wista Quince wood camera is a $2100.00 list price camera and it has rear shift.

[dsphotog]

Aren't Deardorff cameras being made still?? offshore??
Just a thought...
David Silva

[Pete Watkins]

I like my little Wista 45DX. I've had it for about 8 years now. I've also got a B&J 4x5/5x7 that is beautiful but the Wista can take roll film backs and a 65 mm SA lens on a flat lens board. The Wista folds up small and in my opinion the weight of the camera is cancelled out by the weight of the crap that goes with it........lenses, roll film holders, light meters, filters, spirit levels and all the other stuff that I cart around with me but rarely use.
Pete.

[Ole Tjugen]

The ultimate field camera - for movements - is the Carbon Infinity. Expect to pay well over $2000 for one, if you can find one of the only 80 ever made - and only about 20 of them escaped being locked op by collectors!

Second best, and it's a distant second, is the Gandolfi Variant. The Level III has all movements, the Level II has more than most people will ever need.

I had both of them out today, and there really is no contest. Both are far more versatile than any of my other cameras though - and most of the time I use a "simple" 5x7" Gandolfi Traditional without front swing or radical rear movements.

[gflanslo]

what types of movements are people using out in the field. Granted I do a lot of selective focus stuff but I was just wondering what others are doing.

the Gandolfi seems like a really nice camera. Anyone else have experience with these. The Waker SF looks nice too and around the same price range. To bad the dollar is so weak right now.

[Harley Goldman]

The TK45 is a big, heavy camera. Not sure about that one.

I have owned a Toho and Arca and now own a Chamonix. The Toho is a very nice, light camera. However, it is very slow to change lenses and very slow to go from horizontal to vertical. You will get used to it, but it is always slow. I did not like that aspect of the camera. I would describe the operation as "fiddlely", for lack of a better term.

I currently have the Chamonix. Once I got the Cham and used it, I sold my Toho and my Arca (a full monorail, if you are not familiar with it). The Chamonix is a very rigid camera that is quite easy to use. It has a couple of minor quirks, but I am extremely happy with it. I never thought I would like a wooden field camera, but I love this one. It really is a carbon fiber field camera with wooden standards, which explains it great rigidity.

I am in Santa Barbara if you ever wanted to head down and check it out in person. Not much of a putt from SLO town.

[Peter De Smidt]

I used a Toho FC45x for 5 or so years, and I just received a Chamonix. So far, I prefer the Chamonix by quite a bit. With my Toho the lens and film plane weren't parallel in the starting position, adjusting things was not particularly smooth or easy, one had to tighten down the element that held the bellows frame quite hard, and switching from vertical to horizontal was a bit tedious. With the Chamonix making sure that the the back when extended is parallel with the front standard will take a little more work than on a normal field camera, but so far that's the extent of it's idiosyncrasies.

[John Bowen]

Anyone looking for a field camera with extensive movements needs to at least consider Richard Ritter's new cameras. Plenty of movements (I think everything except rear rise), loads of belows extension and extremely light weight. I own one and just love it! Check it out. www.lg4mat.net

[David Karp]

I really, really like my Walker Titan SF. It is not just the movements, it is rigid as all get out, and very well made.

[gflanslo]

It seems like the top runners for me are the Toho, Gandolfi, Chomonix, shen and the Wista if the exchange rate was better. Anyone in the central coast area with any of these cameras that I can test drive??

[Matus Kalisky]

I am also considering swapping my Tachi for something else (togain better wide angle lens capabilities with 75/4.5) and Chamonix is high on the list. Actually - does the Chamonix have rear or front standard focusing?

[tim810]

Anyone looking for a field camera with extensive movements needs to at least consider Richard Ritter's new cameras. Plenty of movements (I think everything except rear rise), loads of belows extension and extremely light weight. I own one and just love it! Check it out. www.lg4mat.net

I second this. The cameras are very well built and about as solid as can be when set up. The rail system will hold his weight but weighs almost nothing. I just own a back built by him and the craftsmanship is amazing!

check it out

[z_photo]

i made the plunge with a used wisner 4x5 technical field camera. i am growing to love it. i think one reason is that like Mr. W i like long lens photography. i just wish this thing had the 20+ inch bellows vs the 16". that reminds me of a quesiton i am going to post in another thread...

anyway, i see them popping up used now and then, sometimes at very good prices.

[BradS]

I am also considering swapping my Tachi for something else (togain better wide angle lens capabilities with 75/4.5) and Chamonix is high on the list. Actually - does the Chamonix have rear or front standard focusing?

I don't know but, it turns out to be a very important and oft overlooked question I think.

[John T]

Gregory,

Check your PM. I have a Toho that I'm selling (finished a backpacking project where weight was extremely important). I'm in the Santa Barbara area.

John

[Ken Lee]

i made the plunge with a used wisner 4x5 technical field camera. i am growing to love it. i think one reason is that like Mr. W i like long lens photography. i just wish this thing had the 20+ inch bellows vs the 16"...

anyway, i see them popping up used now and then, sometimes at very good prices.

I purchased a used 4x5 Wisner Technical field, for much less than a new Chinese model. With lots of bellows draw, it lets you shoot with a 450mm Fujinon C at closer than infinity, and lets you get really close with shorter lenses.

If you have to have a folding wooden camera which is rather small and light, it's hard to beat. With brass fittings and a deep red bellows, it also attracts... admirers. ;)

[Frank Petronio]

A used Badger M1 (a rebranded Toho) was recently on eBay for $550 or so, which seemed like pretty good deal.

All of these superlights are going to be more fussy to set up and use since simply inserting a film holder is going to add stress, make the back move, twist things a little... it is really easy to knock things out of wack while shooting. Not a deal breaker but it just takes a little more care... but I've even seen $3000 Arcas that didn't have parallel standards.

Going ultralight with a Toho, Gowland, or Tachi has the added benefit of allowing you to drop down to a very light tripod, like a #1-series Gitzo and the smallest RRS head... Thalman also has an article on lightweight lens (90 Angulon, 135 Sironar, 240 Fuji) and what to pack... Pretty slick if you really want to go light.

Otherwise it's pretty clear that the Chamonix is best value if you are patient enough to wait for one and move up a weight class in exchange for a more solid and versatile camera; the Japanese and Euro cameras are getting too expensive for (sane) Americans with the weak dollar. Or just buy a good used version of anything mentioned above.

[gflanslo]

Ritter's camera's look very nice. Quick questions, does he make a 4x5 or would I have to buy a reducing back? Also I didn't see and pricing on his website. Does any know what these are going for?

[gflanslo]

I found an Bagger M1 on the auction site for $380. Am I missing something?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Badger-M1-Professional-4x5-View-camera-NICE_W0QQitemZ280252211928QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280252211928&_trkparms=72%3A1077|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

[raucousimages]

If you have it in your budget look into the hybrid type cameras like a Toyo 125VX or some of the Arca Swiss line.
Size and weight are almost that of a field camera but with all of the movement of a rail camera.

[keeds]

Ritter's camera's look very nice. Quick questions, does he make a 4x5 or would I have to buy a reducing back? Also I didn't see and pricing on his website. Does any know what these are going for?

Richard makes an 8x10 with a reducing back, although I believe if you ask him nicely he will build whatever you want. If you wanted a 4x5 back with appropriate bellows then he would probably do that also. Ask him.

[Ron Marshall]

I found an Bagger M1 on the auction site for $380. Am I missing something?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Badger-M1-Professional-4x5-View-camera-NICE_W0QQitemZ280252211928QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280252211928&_trkparms=72%3A1077|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

Badger no longer sells that camera. It is nothing like the design of the Toho.

Find out if the standards are easily removable from the rail, for transport, or it they fold flat.

[Harley Goldman]

Before I bought my Toho, I tried an M1 and returned it to Badger. It did not have the build quality of the Toho. They are priced lower than the Toho for a good reason.

[Dave Wooten]

The Wisner tech cameras are hard to beat. The 4 x 5 has up to 584 mm bellows draw, axis and base tilt, rear rise and paralles focus, geared reat axis tilt...the 5 x 7 has up to 762 mm bellows draw. The specs are still up on the wisner site. These cameras often come up for sale and IMNSHO are best buys.

[gflanslo]

There are so many options out there, how am I ever going to decide on what to get. I seems like the Toho is going to meet my needs in terms of uber amounts of movements but there are some field cameras out there that might just fit the bill as well. Is anyone out there using the Chamonix, Rickter, Shen, ect for 'extreme' selective focus work? If you are interested in seeing what type of selective focus work I'm into check out my website.

[Tony Karnezis]

There's a Badger M2 for sale on this site for $500. It, not the M1, is the Toho equivalent.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=38900&highlight=badger+toho

[Bob Salomon]

There are so many options out there, how am I ever going to decide on what to get. I seems like the Toho is going to meet my needs in terms of uber amounts of movements but there are some field cameras out there that might just fit the bill as well. Is anyone out there using the Chamonix, Rickter, Shen, ect for 'extreme' selective focus work? If you are interested in seeing what type of selective focus work I'm into check out my website.

One way would be to go up to Monterey and check out cameras at Cameras West or go to Palo Alto and check them out at Keeble & Shuchat and at Bear Images or go south to LA and visit Samy's main store.

All of these dealers will put cameras from various manufacturers in your hands to simplify the decision process.

[archivue]

What is the budget?

There is always the TechniKardan 45, if the budget permits.

The arca swiss Fline field 141 is a best alternative if budget permits !
Is by far more rigid, and a fantastic bellow 58 to 360 !

[Ole Tjugen]

Gregory, I'm sorry to say this but you're a perfect candidate for a larger format: In terms of DoF (or lack of such), a 8x10" with a 300mm f:5.6 Symmar is about equivalent to a 4x5" with a 150mm f:2.8.

150mm f:2.8 lenses are few and far between, but 300mm Symmars are out there in great numbers. So are 360mm f:5.6 Symmars - the difficulty there is finding a camera that can hold the beast! At the moment my Gandolfi 8x10" holds a 300mm Symmar and the 360mm is on a 24x30cm plate camera. I fear that the big one would challenge even the Gandolfi (see pictures in the "Show off your Camera" thread here)...

[gflanslo]

thanks for the tips on the stores around my area. I might be in Santa Barbara this weekend.

I think the arca swiss over my budget but looks like a great outfit. Someday....

Ole - thanks for the insights about moving up to 8x10. I never thought I would consider moving up but you make some good arguments. What kind of movements does your Gandolfi have? Do you think the Chamonix 8x10 can handle the 300mm or 360mm lenses? Any other recommendations on 8x10. My budget is going to get blown up.

[John Kasaian]

It seems like the top runners for me are the Toho, Gandolfi, Chomonix, shen and the Wista if the exchange rate was better. Anyone in the central coast area with any of these cameras that I can test drive??

Baja Central Coast---Santa Monica---is where Gowland cameras are born! :)

[Bob Salomon]

Baja Central Coast---Santa Monica---is where Gowland cameras are born! :)

Samy's main store had one a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

[Kevin Crisp]

I am surprised there has been no mention of the Canham DLC in response to the question. It has monorail-like movements, a ton of bellows draw and a used one is in the price range indicated. Great customer service, excellent with wide angle lenses. Reasonably priced very high quality lens boards. A ground glass that is as good as a Maxwell. Obviously there is no "best field camera" and there are lots of great choices.

[Ole Tjugen]

... Ole - thanks for the insights about moving up to 8x10. I never thought I would consider moving up but you make some good arguments. What kind of movements does your Gandolfi have? Do you think the Chamonix 8x10 can handle the 300mm or 360mm lenses? Any other recommendations on 8x10. My budget is going to get blown up.


I'm afraid I have no idea about the Chamonix. I'm sure they are fine cameras, but I went directly from an antediluvian plate camera to a pristine second-hand Gandolfi Traditional.

The Traditional has front base and axis tilt, rear base tilt and limited swing/tilt of the "Technika type", although Gandolfi made them first. Oh - lots of front rise, as well as front rise and shift on the sliding lensboard. Front swing mechanism can be added to the cameras - for a price.

[Ben Calwell]

I've used a Wista DX with rear shift for almost 20 years, now, with no problems. It seems to me that just about any field camera would have adequate movements for landscapes, etc. I've never had a photographic situation where I've had to bend my Wista into a pretzel shape using movements.
A slight tip of the front standard or a bit of a back tilt is usually all I need to do. Same with the swings.