I don't understand this prejudice

[Clay Turtle]

Portfolio is strictly LF, mostly 4x5 but I am adding some 5x7 but that is My prejudice, then again I don't particularly try to foster it upon others.http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=38796
After making this statement, I had some reflection about it. Just how truthful was I being?
In particular, my point of view was based upon some recent shooting, I had done with in the 35mm format. I have access to a darkroom which contains a Beseller 67 dicro. enlarger. I had been intent of shooting or at least as primary shooting of LF in b&w scenics. To gain access to areas, I thought I would try using some form of a boat & in discussions of usage lead to practice runs with 35mm in kayak. My thought were more toward a small boat or canoe but as portability are concerned & stability, the kayak was promoted as being best suited for my purposes.

It was an interesting & educational departure from the norm!Thoughts or preception of doing Clyde Butcher style shooting, standing chest deep in water , camera setting on a tripod shooting the landscape as seen from the water.
Reality Check: Everything I did in the field suddenly seem to sink into the murky depths. One thing to set up a tripod on fairly solid footing, quite another to set it up in some slippery mud . . . So you are standing there in waist deep water. how do you get to your film holder, etc . . . where do you put those things used preparing to shoot? How do you keep them dry!
These things came to me as I was paddling around in this kayak with my 35mm. As I paddle along I come upon photo opportunities of the moment . . . one of the reasons I like to carry the 35mm, to snap those quick shots before they disappear, usually fleeting glimpse produced by my intrusion into their world. Ah, camera in water tight carrier (inside zip lock bag; secondary safe guard) not exactly quick access but then in paddling, water tends to run down the paddle & off your hands into the boat. Add towel to accessories to dry hands before handling camera & equipment.
So the question came to me, could I have shot these opportunities with an LF camera? I thought about it but couldn't percieve any LF camera that would (could) cover these circumstances. But I tend to think of LF as something I am doing off a tripod with the time to set up. I know that some of you do shoot handheld(?) so what cameras do you feel would be suited to these circumstances & could be used in place of the 35mm?

PS:In my consierations of suitability are toward use of an SLR for focus & multiple shots capacity. I though about range finder press style & even a roll back on such LF but then if I use medium format film, why not a medium format camera.Of course, one of the aspects of LF is the ability to shoot different film types as each shot is a separate load.

[Kevin Crisp]

I don't understand this post.

[IanG]

Perhaps the word "prejudice" is entirely inappropriate and better alternatives would be choice or option.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

I agree with Kevin the the post is pretty hard to understand. After rereading it a few times, I got the impression it was a complaint to the effect that 35 mm SLRs are much easier to use than LF cameras, especially from small craft.

Graphics and other press cameras with coupled rangefinders were made to be shot hand-held. Available in 2x3, 3x4, 4x5, and 5x7. There are also 8x10 box cameras. But, alas, all intended to be shot handheld without movements or precise framing.

There are also "plate cameras" in sizes up to at least 4x5 withviewfinder attached to the front standard that work with at least front rise.

If you want to know how Clyde Butcher does what he does, ask him.

[bigdog]

Clay:

Sometimes 35mm is simply the right tool for the job. There is a reason why cameras and film come in all sizes and configurations other than just "choice". In my opinion, insisting on shooting everything with sheet film is a choice, and a choice that is often based on prejudice rather than need.

But then, I could be wrong - and will no doubt be told so. ;)

Cheers,

David

[Ben Syverson]

Use whatever works.

[Brian Ellis]

"Thoughts or preception of doing Clyde Butcher style shooting, standing chest deep in water , camera setting on a tripod shooting the landscape as seen from the water.
Reality Check: Everything I did in the field suddenly seem to sink into the murky depths. One thing to set up a tripod on fairly solid footing, quite another to set it up in some slippery mud . . . So you are standing there in waist deep water. how do you get to your film holder, etc . . . where do you put those things used preparing to shoot? How do you keep them dry!"

I don't know about the rest of the post but I can tell you how Clyde Butcher does these things - he has an assistant (often his wife Nicki) in a boat near by, she hands him his things as he needs them.

[QT Luong]

When I was shooting in the South Florida parks, I packed with me a small inflatable boat that I used to put my camera bag on.

[Clay Turtle]

I don't understand this post. I don't blame you , I reread it & I found it confusing . . I had been commenting at the link given which with some darkroom work I was doing, had led me to re-evaluate my choice to carry & use the 35mm instead of an LF camera. In going over the characteristics of such situations mentally I could not think of an LF camera that would be suitable for these purposes. So I sought out opinions & knowledge of other LF'er that shoot handheld cameras.
Perhaps the word "prejudice" is entirely inappropriate and better alternatives would be choice or option. Ian As I stated above, in part, this assessment came from work with an enlarger in the 35mm format. Looking at the composition on the easel, I think 'Wish I had shot this in a larger format!' Seeing the print also tends to re-enforce the consideration that LF format work give more depth of detail.
My opinion which tends to fuel my prejudice toward using a larger format?
As demonstrated by this very question being posted?

[Clay Turtle]

Clay:
Sometimes 35mm is simply the right tool for the job. There is a reason why cameras and film come in all sizes and configurations other than just "choice". In my opinion, insisting on shooting everything with sheet film is a choice, and a choice that is often based on prejudice rather than need.

But then, I could be wrong - and will no doubt be told so. ;)
Cheers, David:) :p Ya, ran up on a pink spoonbill, even got a couple of shots with the 35mm . . . unfortunately it was loaded with b&w film :eek: Thing was I paddled up to the land & got out to take the shots if I didn't press him, he was willing to share the site. Staying on my end I could have set up & composed for an LF shot & as I generally carry color as well as b&w!
When I was shooting in the South Florida parks, I packed with me a small inflatable boat that I used to put my camera bag on.Yes, I looked at them as well. One of my first thoughts was a small inflatable but as I made the rounds of boat,canoe & kayak dealers (all sport inflatable models) the recurring common denominator was weight & puncture resistance . . . Oh, by the way what kind of bag did you use? Although few dry bags (soft) would fit the LF, the ones I looked at for the 35mm seemed to support a roll method to seal but I had been advised to go with a 'zip lock' style bag which then was rolled, double seal in effect.
I don't know about the rest of the post but I can tell you how Clyde Butcher does these things - he has an assistant (often his wife Nicki) in a boat near by, she hands him his things as he needs them. Yes I had considered using a hard side waterproof box for the LF camera & equipment which is why I have been looking toward larger (tandem) kayaks. But I am thinking that some style of float might be better as I seldom have anyone with me & I have visions of the camera tripod being knocked over by the boat in a gust or shift in the wind . .

[Kevin Crisp]

It isn't either or. Medium format can give you better image quality with portability and speed. I am an SL66 fan.

[Bill_1856]

"Thoughts or preception of doing Clyde Butcher style shooting, standing chest deep in water , camera setting on a tripod shooting the landscape as seen from the water.
Reality Check: Everything I did in the field suddenly seem to sink into the murky depths. One thing to set up a tripod on fairly solid footing, quite another to set it up in some slippery mud . . . So you are standing there in waist deep water. how do you get to your film holder, etc . . . where do you put those things used preparing to shoot? How do you keep them dry!"

I don't know about the rest of the post but I can tell you how Clyde Butcher does these things - he has an assistant (often his wife Nicki) in a boat near by, she hands him his things as he needs them.

I remember hearing him talk about one time when he left his tripod set up (complete with plastic wrapped 8x10 Deardorf) for two weeks and checked it daily by boat to see it it had stopped settling. He caught it just before the camera started sinking beneath the waves!

[Gene McCluney]

There is no doubt that shooting large format in water is a difficult task, but patience, and imagination will allow you to do it. An assistant is mighty handy to hand you things, and you can carry some sort of soft bag hanging from your shoulder that you can stuff things into. Not all water has soft muddy bottoms.

For 35mm, you can sneak up on wildlife and photograph them unawares. For large format, you have to compose your shot and wait for wildlife to enter it. Completely different technique, and the latter requires loads of patience, but the rewards can be great.

[E. von Hoegh]

Perhaps the word "prejudice" is entirely inappropriate and better alternatives would be choice or option.

Ian

I think he meant "bias"

[Clay Turtle]

Thank you all for your comments that no one put forth any LF Cameras at least gives some resolve that I was overlooking something in my decision.
It isn't either or. Medium format can give you better image quality with portability and speed. I am an SL66 fan.I have only shot a few medium formats, I liked the Mamiya 645 format but something like a Pentax would be a better choice opting for the larger medium format? SL66?

PS: Hmm . . . I am thinking about it, now something like an oversize 35mm slr that would have a familiar look & feel . . . interesting I had not given a medium format much thought being so rapped up in my prejudice toward LF.