600-800mm to fit Copal-3 or Betax-5 shutter?

[Daniel_Buck]

I'm probably going to eventually want a lens longer than my 450 for 8x10. I have a Copal-3 and Betax-5 shutter for lenses that I don't use most of the time, so I'm wondering what is the possibility of finding a lens longer than 450 (I'm thinking 600-800?) that will fit directly into a copal #3 or Betax #5. I don't know how lenses work when re-mounting onto shutters, aside from the aperture being incorrect, do many long lenses directly fit one of these shutters?

I read on skgrimes website that "24" f-11 Goerz Artar", "30" f-12.5 Goerz Artar", fit onto copal #3, but with the note of "Needs barrel flange for mounting to lensboard ." Does this mean that the lens is held onto the board via screws, instead of the normal threaded ring that tightens around the lensboard?

I'm not actively looking for a longer lens, but if I find something that I can use in one of those shutters, I know I could make use of it, and would eventually want it. If it's more trouble than it's worth, I'll skip it. Just curious really.

[Really Big Cameras]

Daniel,

Unless you get a REALLY good deal on a 24" or 30" Red Dot Artar, you may be better off looking for a lens already in a shutter, like a 600mm Fujinon C or an 800mm Nikkor T-ED.

The Artars are great lenses, and are fantastic on the ULF formats, but in addition to the cost of the shutter, the custom machine work needed to properly fit them into a Copal No. 3 shutter is quite expensive. Financially, you may come out ahead selling your unused lens that's in a Copal No.3 shutter on eBay and putting the proceeds toward a nice used 600mm Fujinon C.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://www.reallybigcameras.com/)

[Daniel_Buck]

ah, yea I don't want to do any machining. Don't really want to sell the other lenses either, I do use them, just not all the time. If I found a 600-800 that I could easilly screw and unscrew into one of those shutters, I'd go for it. Thanks for your reply!

[Really Big Cameras]

ah, yea I don't want to do any machining. Don't really want to sell the other lenses either, I do use them, just not all the time. If I found a 600-800 that I could easilly screw and unscrew into one of those shutters, I'd go for it. Thanks for your reply!

Daniel,

I can't think of any barrel mount lenses longer than 480mm that are a direct fit in a Copal No. 3 shutter. In general, barrel mount lenses were made for process cameras and did not come mounted in shutters. I have seen a few 600mm APO Ronars from the early 1960s that were factory mounted in large Compound shutters. However, I'm not sure if the cells from barrel mounted 600mm APO Ronars from that time period were a direct fit in Compound shutters, or if machining would be required.

The most economical way to use these long barrel mount process lenses is with a LUC, Packard or Sinar shutter. The Sinar shutters are plentiful on the used market and, as a result, they are a great bargain these days - not cheap, but you can probably pick up one for about the same price, or less, than a used Copal No. 3. They have speeds from 8 sec up to 1/60 sec. Of course, they work perfectly with all Sinar cameras (going all the way back to the original Sinar Norma), but if your camera has a large enough front standard, you can adapt a Sinar shutter to use with it.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://www.reallybigcameras.com/)

[Michael Jones]

I read on skgrimes website that "24" f-11 Goerz Artar", "30" f-12.5 Goerz Artar", fit onto copal #3, but with the note of "Needs barrel flange for mounting to lensboard ." Does this mean that the lens is held onto the board via screws, instead of the normal threaded ring that tightens around the lensboard?



The flange for the copal #3 shutter is a custom-made flange that indeed is mounted with screws into the lens board to hold the weight of the lens. 600mm plus lenses are heavy and the little shutter mounting rings will not support the weight. You also may have to have your lens board strengthened. Adam reinforced my Kodak Master board to support an huge Kodak process lens he remounted and the job was perfect (although it took a while).

The short answer is nothing in the lengths you mention directly screws into either shutter (although there may be some obscure process lens to fit the Betax). All require machined adapters to screw the lens elements into the shutter. The usual charge for Adam @ SK Grimes remounting a lens into a shutter is a minimum of $300-400 depending upon complexity.

The bottom line is that you must have a compelling reason to remount a lens. By the time you purchase a shutter, lens and pay for the remounting, you will likely be over $1000 in cost. I just had a short Dagor remounted into a shutter and by the time I had Adam make lens caps and a filter adapter ring, the cost was $500 (plus the lens and shutter). Good luck.

Mike

[Peter De Smidt]

Are you sure that you need a shutter for a 600mm lens? Won't you regularly be stopping down to at least f45? Depending on film type and filters you may be able to get buy with the lens cap or hat over lens method of exposure. It's not that hard and it does work well.