View Full Version : Real world movements with some older lenses

Former Member 8144
12-Jul-2008, 02:00

I'm looking to get some feedback on the real world amount of movements (shift and rise, not tilt) with some older lenses.

My favourite focal length is 110 but not looking at the schneider xl for now I am looking at some other options. How do the older style kodak 100mm 6.3 wide field ektar and schneider angulon 120mm 6.8 do, and for that matter the schneider 90 6.8 angulon?

Its not of course for architectural work, more for long distance travelling but where I still like to have some movements to control perspective and placement issues.



Ole Tjugen
12-Jul-2008, 02:11
The Ektar I don't know.

The 120mm Angulon covers 5x7", meaning it has an image circle of about 210mm. At smaller stops it is possible to extend this a little, especially if you don't need details in the sky area. :)

The 90mm Angulon is said to cover only 4x5", and then only straight on at f:32. My experience is that it covers a little bit more than that, but not enough to be critically sharp all over if using front movements. But since the focal length is short, you will rarely need more than a hint of tilt to "Scheimpflug" a landscape - meaning that you can probably get away with it. Or combining front tilt with front drop to center the lens axis on the film again, or even use a hint of rear tilt? You can basically forget about rise and shift - again, unless you don't mind fuzzy skies. ;)

Brian Ellis
12-Jul-2008, 08:47
You can get all the information you'd ever want about older Schneider lenses from their U.S. web site, www.schneideroptics.com. I just sold a 100mm Wide Field Ektar on ebay and I gave the coverage information for it in the listing. I can't remember where I found the information but most likely I just Googled on "wide field ektar." Or you can go to ebay's completed sales section and find my listing. Just type in "wide field ektar" and you should be able to find it, there aren't that many sold on ebay and I'm pretty sure my sale was still within the time period for which ebay retains completed sales.

Benno Jones
13-Jul-2008, 00:50
I use the 100mm 6.3 WF Ektar and haven't had much problem with coverage for movements. I think I can recall running out of rise/fall/shift once or twice, but they were extreme cases. In normal situations I've had no problems.

Former Member 8144
14-Jul-2008, 03:08
Thanks guys,
I assume on these older lenses, that the edges are a touch softer than the modern equivalents, especially when shift/rise are used?

Ole Tjugen
14-Jul-2008, 06:21
Not necessarily.

Old Super Angulons, just like newer ones, cut "hard" at the edge of the image circle. The main difference there is in the maximum aperture and/or the maximum coverage.

When I compared a 1930's 90mm Angulon and a 1950's one, I found that the main difference was that the newer one had a more even sharpness in the area of coverage but dropped off more rapidly outside that, but that this difference can only be seen when comparing the different negatives directly (same scene with both lenses).

Lens design is always a compromise, and the main change in emphasis is between pre-and post-WWII lenses, as "good enough for contact prints" disappeared from the construction specifications.

14-Jul-2008, 08:20
My favourite focal length is 110 but not looking at the schneider xl for now I am looking at some other options.

Fuji SW F/8 105mm. Covers 250mm or so. Cheaper used then the 110XL. Not very common but they do show up.

Carsten Wolff
15-Jul-2008, 17:18
The 104mm to 114mm or so WA Raptars cover 5x7 with movements. I have a 103.7mm/f12.5 barrel version that I haven't actually measured the image circle of, but I have not run out of useful coverage on the 5x7 Arca yet, despite being temporarily front-mounted in an Alphax #3; am looking to find a direct fit Wolly shutter for that one. I also have a tiny 108mm/f6.5 WA Cooke VIIb which seems to have ~260mm useful circle. Mine is in a Copal 0 and is a nice and sharp lens, but hard to find in shutter (they were sold as barrel lenses to be front-mounted into Epsylon shutters). Beware of butchered (read "home-shuttered" WA Cooke examples; the lens spacing is very tight and critical.