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jasonjoo
7-Jul-2008, 14:18
Hey folks,

My Chamonix 4x5 should be here in August and I'm slowly picking up some items so that I can use the camera right away! Since this format is very new to me, I was hoping if some of you could help answer the following questions:

I have both a 90mm SA f8 lens and a 150mm Sironar-S (actually it's on the way). I believe the Chamonix will take Linhof style lens boards, and I was looking at the Bromwell lens boards from B&H. First of all, does the Chamonix take centered or off-centered lens boards? Also, how exactly do I get the lens ONTO the lens board? I assume I'll have to take apart the lens and then reassemble it with the lens board in between, but is there a special tool required for this? Or can I simply untwist the rear element with my hands?

For focusing loupes, what is a good magnification for focusing? I've seen 3.6x, 4x, 8x, etc. If it matters at all, I'll be shooting landscapes and portraits (pretty diverse!).

I have already picked up a handful of Fidelity film holders and next on my list is to purchase a focusing loupe, cable release and a dark cloth of some sort. I already own an incident light meter, which I might sell to upgrade to an incident + spot meter. Is there anything else (other than film) that I'll need to get started right away?

My last purchase, the Sironar-S really cleaned out my savings, so I'm on a budget from here on out, unless I sell one of my Rolleiflex TLR's, which I am currently considering!

Sorry for the lengthy post and tons of questions! I appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Jason

Gordon Moat
7-Jul-2008, 14:40
The TOYO 3.6x loupe is a very nice item, at an easy to live with price (even used). If you consider that your biggest prints might be near 4x enlargement, then this magnification of loupe should work quite well. When you want to make even larger prints, that is when an 8x loupe can be even better, though not always as easy to use as a 3.6x loupe.

You might consider getting an instant film back for some of your first test exposures. The old Polaroid 405 and newer Fuji PA-45 can use Fuji FP100C, FP100B, and FP3000B, as well as existing stock of Polaroid 669, 690, and other pack films. The slightly larger Polaroid 550 or newer Fuji PA-145 backs can hold Fuji FP100C45 instant pack films, and a few others that only Fuji make currently; though cost per shot is higher to get the larger instant print.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Ron Marshall
7-Jul-2008, 14:50
KEH has lots of used LF gear at fair prices, and their gradings are accurate. See the Nikkor Technika lensbords, good fit and cheap.

Sounds like you have pretty much all that you need.

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/CategoryTableOfContents.aspx?Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=true&ID=58&BC=LF&BCC=7

butterflydream
7-Jul-2008, 16:54
The old Polaroid 405 and newer Fuji PA-45 can use Fuji FP100C, FP100B, and FP3000B, as well as existing stock of Polaroid 669, 690, and other pack films. The slightly larger Polaroid 550 or newer Fuji PA-145 backs can hold Fuji FP100C45 instant pack films, and a few others that only Fuji make currently; though cost per shot is higher to get the larger instant print.

Fuji PA-45 is for FP100C45 and PA-145 is for FP100C to be precise.

Jason, you need a lens wrench to fix your lens onto the board.
Something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TOYO-Toyoview-Lens-Mount-Wrench-Wrenches-Sinar-Horseman_W0QQitemZ190223996713QQihZ009QQcategoryZ29981QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

You fix the lens retainer ring with the wrench. You can turn rear element by hand.

jasonjoo
7-Jul-2008, 17:13
Gordon, I probably won't be printing that large any time soon! I'll probably stick with contact prints and 8x10 prints. Thanks for the tip. I will look at the Toyo 3.6x loupe!

I am also looking into the instant films. I would love to use it both to test exposures and to take pictures with in itself, but this may have to wait a few months. I'm a bit low on funds for the time being, so the bare essentials first :)

Thanks Ron! I'm a big fan of KEH, though the way they labeled their lens boards is not very helpful to a beginner like me! I just need to pick up a lens board for my Super Angulon, and I just so happen to have a gift card from B&H to use!

Ernie, thanks! I'll pick up a lens wrench this week!

Jason

Aahx
7-Jul-2008, 19:29
Jason... you asked how to put a lens on a lensboard. Here are some images to help you understand how some lenses goes together. If you get a undrilled lensboard you will have to drill it to meet your lens size. I would see if B & H has pre drilled boards sized for the lens you are recieving. This board I am using for example is not a linhoff board (this is a larger Omega board) but for illustration purposes it fits the bill.

http://my.photodump.com/Aahx/LF-Lens-and-board-parts-image-T.jpg (http://www.photodump.com/Aahx/LF-Lens-and-board-parts-image.html)

^ click thumbnail to see image.. And this is the order they go... you would start assembling it from right to left. As the last two items that go on, are usualy your retainer ring (which you tighten with a lens wrench) and rear glass element.

http://my.photodump.com/Aahx/Rear-perspective-view-LF-lens-assembly-T.jpg (http://www.photodump.com/Aahx/Rear-perspective-view-LF-lens-assembly.html)

^Here you have the assembled lens and board showing you the rear where you would tighten the retainer ring.

Anyway.. hope the images help you picture how things can go together.

As for loupes... I have tried 4x, 6x, 8x, and 10x loupes. my favorite is my Schnieder 6x APO(the older black one, not the new plastic silver space looking one), but I used to own a Mamaya 4x that was also excellent. The higher maginfication loupes were ok, but I found for myself that I prefered a bit less. It will really come down to what you end up with for groundglass brightness, and what you like to look at it with. We all have different preferances in how we see, and the ways we do it. Some tools can make things easyer (like my Schnieder) but they can also be much more expensive (like 3x) than another (like a Peak) which can be considerably cheaper. Just remember you can always start within your budget, and grow from there. This way you start to learn what you need from a personal users perspective, and not just a book or forums idea of what is "best". As some tools we use are going to fall into that "subjective" catagory of what we personaly prefer.

jasonjoo
7-Jul-2008, 20:09
Hi Soren,

Thanks so much for the diagram and explanation. That was very helpful! Thanks for the info on the loupes as well. I usually prefer to get it right the first time, but as with many things photo related, there's always a personal preference that plays a huge role in the outcome.

Jason

Nick_3536
7-Jul-2008, 23:00
Thanks Ron! I'm a big fan of KEH, though the way they labeled their lens boards is not very helpful to a beginner like me!

They list the size of the hole. With used boards that may or may not have been drilled with a wierd size this is great. Both in avoiding or finding a wierd size :D

Did anybody mention the Rodenstock lens wrench? Not very expensive and does make things easier.

anchored
7-Jul-2008, 23:21
Lens wrenches... you'd be better off with a spanner-type wrench IMMHO. The cheap flat wrenches don't work for recessed boards, if you should choose to go extra-wide and need a workable lens wrench. Might's well get a wrench that works for anything... even if one has to spend a few dollars more.

Darkclothes... might I suggest that for starting off a heavy black t-shirt works as well as most on the market. I have a Blackjacket (which I don't like) and a Delta (too hot and heavy), and even owning the two I still use a black t-shirt more often then the others. I find not a lot of advantages with spending much on dark clothes... funds are better used elsewhere, at least starting off.

On polaroid backs... I've personally never found much use for them (perhaps they'd be nice for studio work with setting up lighting, but not really needed much for outdoors photography)... have them for my medium format and large format cameras. Have only used them once over quite a few years... not all that thrilled with the results of polaroids. I would suggest a QuickLoad back would be a more useful accessory... at least if you are going to travel much.

jasonjoo
8-Jul-2008, 10:41
I don't see myself using anything wider than 90mm as of now. I really can't say for sure until my camera gets here and I start to get a feel for things, but based on previous use, I don't think I'd need anything wider than the 24/28mm focal range.

I'll try to start off with a home made dark cloth. They shouldn't be difficult to make :) I'll have to go hunting for the right materials though!

As for polaroids, I love the look of instant films! But I plan to do some studio portraits, so the polaroids will be invaluable then. I also need to save some cash for a quickload back as well. I forgot about that :X Probably won't need one until I start traveling again.

Thanks for your help everyone. I appreciate it!

Jason

Frank Petronio
8-Jul-2008, 11:03
The Toyo 3.6x loupe is fine for general use. I don't think I could focus better with a higher power loupe, if it is that close that it matters there is enough other slop in the system to negate the precision of the 8x loupe (film bowing in the holder for example).

Don't forget a really solid tripod and head, along the lines of a Gitzo #2- or 3-series. The Fiesols from China look good. What works for 35 and 120 may not be enough to withstand loading film holders, etc. - you are applying force to the camera when loading, in addition to the weight of the camera itself.

A lenshade of some sort. An adjustable compendium style one is preferable for use with camera movements, but at least get a thin metal screw-in one, as it offers a little extra flare protection and also protects the lens from dings and dirt.

A good pack or case to carry this stuff in. Plastic Ziplocs for your cleaned film holders. Something like a Harrison film changing tent for loading film.... endless threads on this stuff

A digital camera can replace Polaroid and a light meter in many instances. Of course it is nice to have all three in your arsenal, but the digicam is the most useful imho. Watch somebody else go off on a rant about this though ;-)

Get film holders in quantities of 5 so that you can load an entire 10 sheet box at one time. It sucks to have two sheets in a box...

Collect a couple of extra empty film boxes for off-loading exposed film.

Sell me your Rolleis!

jasonjoo
9-Jul-2008, 17:27
Hey Frank,

I currently have a Bogen 3021PRO with a 468MGRC2 ball head. The legs can carry up to 13 pounds, while the head can carry up to I believe 30 pounds. I'm hoping that the Chamonix is light enough so that I don't have to replace my legs!

The other tips will be very useful as well. I'll be sure to have a few ziplock bags in handy! I'll also be buying film in 50 count boxes (I'll primarily shoot the Arista.EDU Ultra films for the time being).

I also picked up 9 Fidelity film holders though the Grafmatic holders seem very convenient and should take up less space. However, they're quite expensive, but once I save up some more, I'd like to have a few Grafmatic holders!

As for the Rolleiflex... I have a 3.5E that needs a CLA (and I actually haven't used it yet), but even the broken ones are hard to part with :)

Jason

Laurie
9-Jul-2008, 19:30
Hi Everyone,
I am totally new to this. My Dad has just given me a 4 x 5 camera. I don't know where to start...Any ideas?

aduncanson
9-Jul-2008, 20:17
Hi Everyone,
I am totally new to this. My Dad has just given me a 4 x 5 camera. I don't know where to start...Any ideas?

Laurie,

Welcome! That is great! I have found that my greatest enabler is a darkroom equipped well enough to be a pleasure to work in. I hope that you have that available. Somebody on this forum advised a new LF photographer to shoot every day. I can't quite do that, but it seemed like the best possible advise to me. I am also finding that keeping notes of what I do in the darkroom and what I have done while making exposures (and what to do differently next time) is very valuable. Oh yeah, look at a lot of pictures and have fun.

- Alan

John Kasaian
9-Jul-2008, 22:25
You've had lots of good advice, but I'll add my 2-cents anyway---don't stress over any of this stuff. Much of the brands mentioned are personal preferences. While all are good choices, if you are starting out with LF don't expect to really need any of it right away. Your old light meter will serve you just fine. The loupe you use to check out your MF negts will also work. For a dark cloth, you can do nicely with doubled black t-shirts (or a sinmple piece of dark cloth!) Many 4x5 cameras don't wiegh much more (if any) than your medium format Rolleis so it is quite possible that the tripod you already have will safely hold your new camera---you'll never know until you test it out. Ready-load backs are nice, but so are grafmatics. And so are the Fidelities yo've already collected. I'd suggest using what you have to develop more of a sense of what you'll want as an upgrade (if any) and the only way to know for sure is the shoot! And then shoot some more! First impressions can change quickly. Spend your money on film, chemicals and paper instead.

I am not suggesting that more "appropriate" gear is something you shouldn't aspire to owning, only that what really is "appropriate" for you is something you'll need to decide for yourself and experience will make your decisions better informed.
Your 4x5 is new to you. That is enough to learn about without having to add other new (and expensive) gear into the equation at the get-go.
Enjoy what you've got. I honestly believe the your photographs will not know the difference. Whatever additional gear you really need will make it's self known in good time.

jasonjoo
9-Jul-2008, 22:40
Hey John, thanks for the advice.

I currently use a Sekonic L-358, which is great, but to use the Zone System, I believe I will need a spot meter. I find the Zone System a very neat way of coming up with an exposure and is something that I want to study while learning how to shoot 4x5.

I'll pick up a loupe, dark cloth, and plenty of Arista.EDU Ultra! Waiting for the Chamonix is killing me right now!

Jason

Gordon Moat
10-Jul-2008, 12:01
Hello Jason,

You can get a 1º or 5º spot attachment for the L-358, if you want to do spot metering. The 5º has a better low light sensitivity, and is slightly less expensive.

You don't need to use the Zone system to exposure B/W film, though if you want to go through the time of setting up a closed system: controlled exposure, through developing, and onto prints, then it is not a bad way to go. If you decide to shoot colour transparency, then you are better off with incident readings, though you could spot meter.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Laurie
11-Jul-2008, 03:05
Thank you. I appreciate all the help I can get!

jasonjoo
12-Jul-2008, 22:00
Thanks Gordon, I did not know about the spot meter attachment. However, I'd most likely sell the L-358 first and put the extra $160 towards the higher end model with spot meter built in. The zone system is very intriguing and it makes a whole lot of sense. I haven't had issues with the incident meter but I feel like the zone system may help me out in the long run.

Jason

Ernest Purdum
18-Jul-2008, 20:16
Laurie, what kind of camera do you have? That will help us to give suggestions. Please tell us the markings on the lens, too.

Francesco Gallarotti
9-Aug-2008, 08:13
The old Polaroid 405 and newer Fuji PA-45 can use Fuji FP100C, FP100B, and FP3000B, as well as existing stock of Polaroid 669, 690, and other pack films. The slightly larger Polaroid 550 or newer Fuji PA-145 backs can hold Fuji FP100C45 instant pack films, and a few others that only Fuji make currently; though cost per shot is higher to get the larger instant print.
Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

This totally confuses me now...
I didn't get my camera yet so I cannot test. The only item I have received so far is a used Fuji PA-45. Are you saying that I cannot load the FP100C45 in it, but only the smaller FP100C?

Somewhere else I read that the datasheet fp100c-pi.pdf lists the Fuji holders for the two sizes: Fuji Instant Holder PA-145 for the smaller film (FP-100C) and Fuji Instant Holder PA-45 for the larger (FP-100C45).

CG
9-Aug-2008, 09:36
Hi Everyone,
I am totally new to this. My Dad has just given me a 4 x 5 camera. I don't know where to start...Any ideas?

Making an assumption you are new to large format, but not to photography in general, the articles at www.largeformatphotography.info are a great place to get a toehold on what to do.

www.apug.org has lots of good info too.

Steve Simmons of View Camera Magazine fame, has published a popular book on LF photography. The Ansel Adams series of books was fabulous too.

C

Gordon Moat
9-Aug-2008, 14:17
Someone else corrected that earlier in page 1 of the replies:

Fuji PA-45 is for FP100C45 and PA-145 is for FP100C to be precise.

Usually I try to be very accurate, though mistakes can happen . . . must have been an off day for me.

Ciao!

Gordon

Francesco Gallarotti
9-Aug-2008, 15:00
Oh good! Thanks for the quick reply!
Good so that means I bought the right one...

I just wish the Fuji instant film had a usable negative like the Polaroid 55 used to have...