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pdeeee
1-Jul-2008, 08:28
hi.... I am having trouble finding a way to develop my 5x7 negs.... I have looked into finding a tank with a light tight valve system as you can buy for a 5x4 system.... I cannot find one, and I dont think they exist... I can develop in trays in a dark room but it involves a lot of time and messing about in the dark. I was wondering if anyone knows if you can buy light tight developing trays which will enable me to at least work once the neg is in place and change to stop and fix in the dark replacing the lid each time... I would need three of course,,,,,any suggestions?

Ron Marshall
1-Jul-2008, 08:44
The Jobo 3006 Expert drum will do six 5x7 or six 4x5. I think the best price new is at Badger Graphics. Used they go for about $175. Pricey, but worth it.

It drains and fills quickly, so you only need one.

Kevin Crisp
1-Jul-2008, 08:48
I don't know about a tank, but I went to a restaurant supply store and got a plastic tray that had a good 4" around the edges of the negatives. 40 ounces of developer fills it nicely. I took two of the little plastic tripods that come with home delivery pizzas, clipped off one of the legs on each one, sanded the clipped stump smooth, and glued them upside down in middle of the tray to keep two sheets from touching each other when sloshed around. The film goes in emulsion up, I never touch them after pushing them under initially. I follow the lift-three-sides tray agitation technique covered in the Kodak publication for TMAX. I have no problems with even development since the sheets can move around quite a bit and the pattern changes every few seconds per the Kodak recommendation. Best of all, I have never scratched one.

Yes, it is just two at a time, but once you get the work flow going smoothly they are ready to fix at about the time the two ahead are ready to come out of the fixer. If I really am energetic this works out to about 16 sheets per hour.

I don't know if this is "too much messing around in the dark" for you, but it seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.

caleb
1-Jul-2008, 09:40
I use a jobo drum as well, the 8x10 one works for my 5x7 but only does 5 at a time. I just can't justify buying another one right now. I did discover that the little jobo 1500 series 35mm tank with a single extension on it will let me do one sheet at a time. Slide the film in emulsion side to the center of the tank, insert the "tube" that holds the reels in place and acts as a light trap, then put the lid on and roll away. So far it has given very even development and is much easier than loading up the big tank with one sheet just to check the set-up of a shot. I have never seen anything like what you are looking for, I think it could work if you are only doing one sheet at a time in a tray but if you are doing the "deck of cards" thing with multiple sheets in a tray then you would need to be in the soup shuffling the film all the time anyway. If you can't find or afford a jobo tank then I would go the route of the old style Kodak rubber tanks and steel hangers, they have become pretty affordable but would still require being in the dark for 15 minutes or so. Let us know if you find what you are looking for...

timbo10ca
1-Jul-2008, 09:40
I've been tray developing 5x7 since I started LF a year and a half ago. I've rarely had a scratch even when I first started- it's actually pretty easy (FYI, I so emulsion side up). I find problems only if I try doing more than 6 negs at a time, but that's usually the maximum film you can use in a liter of developer anyway. It doesn't involve much futzing around in the dark at all actually, as long as you have some room and plan out your motions. No steep learning curve at all. I'd recommend giving it a go if you haven't already, before making up your mind. It's very cheap too- no new equipment to buy. Steve Simmons describes a very easy workflow in his book and on the View Camera website. If you still don't think it's for you, you can try BTZS tubes- this is described in a number of places too. If you make your own it's cheap as well, but does involve some "dark" shuffling. I considered it, but it seems a bit more of a pain than trays and I don't have a big enough sink.

Tim

Lenny Eiger
1-Jul-2008, 09:58
For larger negs, I use Pyrex glas baking tray for the developer and have developed (like everyone else) hand techniques for keeping negs apart and doing proper and consistent agitation... On occasion I get a scratch and Photoshop clones it out with no problem....

Lenny

pdeeee
1-Jul-2008, 10:00
thanks everyone, I have tried badger graphics for a used jobo 3006 but cant see one there, but thanks ron for that info, I was beginning to believe I was the only person using a 5x7 format...also, timbo, when you use the trays do you put more than one neg in at a time, cos if you can without scratching, that would be great.... I may do that for a while, until a used one comes up... if anyone has a used jobo 3006 please let me know.............thanks
paul

cjbroadbent
1-Jul-2008, 10:11
I do two at a time in the Patterson Orbital tray. Hands free, kitchen sink, no sweat. Precautions: remove fins, engrave bottom, tap to loosen film, use enough chemichals to beat exhaustion.

Ole Tjugen
1-Jul-2008, 12:10
I either use trays - or a JOBO 2830 print drum. The drum works great, even for E6.

Eric Woodbury
1-Jul-2008, 12:37
I've been using a Jobo 3006, but I've made some tubes and used them a few times. I may be a convert. Nice to be able to give every sheet of film a different time.

Mine are very simple. Made from 2" ABS pipe. A bottom piece of pipe that is capped that is long enough to hold the sheet film. Then the top is long enough to hold the developer. It is capped on one end and a coupling on the other. In the dark, put the film in the long tube. The other ends set upright on the counter full of developer. Plug in the tube with the film, then you can turn the lights on. To start developing, invert the tube so that the developer flows over the film and then you can roll them on the counter or in a tray of water. You may want to presoak your film, or not, before loading the film. When the development time is up, turn off the lights, separate the pieces and put the film in open tubes in stop and then fix. Somewhere in there, depending on whom you believe, you can turn the lights back on.

Robbie Shymanski
1-Jul-2008, 12:45
I am curious as to how tray developing "involves a lot of time messing about in the dark". I have tray processed hundreds of sheets of 5x7 Tri-X in 8x10 trays in my bathtub. Once the lights are off, I unload 10 -12 sheets, develop in HC-110 B for 7 minutes, a minute in the stop, and three minutes in the hypo before I flick the lights back on. So that's 12 minutes sitting in the dark on the side of my tub while I shuffle sheets with one hand, a cocktail in the other. Hardly sounds like work at all.

By the way, I fix for a total of 5-7 minutes. It is just nice to look at my film before going through the rest of the processing. Why waste my time washing film I know is bad?

G Benaim
1-Jul-2008, 13:38
Another vote for trays, as it's the only way to also do dev by inspection (search DBI in the archives, or Michale SMith's article). It's more fun than seeing your prints emerge in the developer, and your negs will always be just right.

Ron Marshall
1-Jul-2008, 13:54
thanks everyone, I have tried badger graphics for a used jobo 3006 but cant see one there, but thanks ron for that info, I was beginning to believe I was the only person using a 5x7 format...also, timbo, when you use the trays do you put more than one neg in at a time, cos if you can without scratching, that would be great.... I may do that for a while, until a used one comes up... if anyone has a used jobo 3006 please let me know.............thanks
paul

Badger only has new drums:

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1592

For used try posting a wanted add here, or the AZO Forum or APUG or Ebay.

John Kasaian
1-Jul-2008, 15:32
A Unicolor 8x10 print drum will handle two 5x7s. Both drum and Unirollers go for $35-45 on the 'bay. Check out the LF Home Page for details on using it for 4x5s :)

timbo10ca
1-Jul-2008, 19:37
thanks everyone, I have tried badger graphics for a used jobo 3006 but cant see one there, but thanks ron for that info, I was beginning to believe I was the only person using a 5x7 format...also, timbo, when you use the trays do you put more than one neg in at a time, cos if you can without scratching, that would be great.... I may do that for a while, until a used one comes up... if anyone has a used jobo 3006 please let me know.............thanks
paul

Hi Paul- I max out at 6 negs at a time. To do more involves too rapid shuffling for me, and that's when I've gotten my scratches. I rotate through the stack in about 30 seconds. Super easy system.

Tim

Gene McCluney
1-Jul-2008, 19:37
I process 22 sheets (at a time) of 5x7 on 11 double stainless steel film hangers in 3.5 gallon tanks, and get beautiful results. I am "in the dark" for about 15 minutes, including loading the hangers.

Amund BLix Aaeng
2-Jul-2008, 06:10
These (http://www.viewcamerastore.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_74&products_id=790) tubes, you can do 4 5x7`s with two tubes, you`re only in the dark for a short time, changing between chemicals.

Gene McCluney
2-Jul-2008, 09:04
Why would anyone have trouble being in the dark for a few minutes?

Vlad Soare
2-Jul-2008, 11:16
It's not exactly being in the dark that's the problem (after all, a "daylight tank" is still loaded in complete darkness). It's doing a delicate procedure in the dark, a procedure where a little mistake could mean a ruined negative. Besides, the procedure is messy (think spilled chemicals all over the counter when you shuffle the sheets, and especially when you move them from one tray to another - I can't help it, I'm a cleanliness freak, my darkroom is the cleanest place in the entire house :D) and hard to control (temperature, agitation consistency, etc.).
How can you keep the temperature steady in the dark, with both hands immersed in the developer? OK, you could use Diafine and not care about temperature, but if you happen to like Rodinal or any other sensitive developer you're out of luck. :)
It's things like these that made me steer completely away from tray developing, and not the darkness itself. ;)

Kevin Crisp
2-Jul-2008, 11:43
My answers are that the fingers are not constantly in the developer when you use a slosher. Chemicals are not spilling all over the place since the tray is rocked very gently. This is no more messy than developing a sheet of paper when printing. Uneven development has never been a problem even when temperatures around here rise during the summer and development times are under 5 minutes. The Zone VI compensating timer deals with any change in temperature anyway, not that the drift would be significant during the 5.5 minutes the film is in the developer so I could leave that device out of the equation and I would have the slight inconvenience of using my thermometer again.

For me, trays are just simple and perfectly functional. I did have some early frustration with the shuffling of many sheets in developer at once so I dropped that part of it and the problem was solved. This isn't a very exciting part of the process for me. I don't (I can't) shoot the volume of film some of the other forum members shoot, so maybe that is part of the reason I keep things simple. I like the fact that if something goes really wrong while developing I lose just two sheets not 6 or 10.

Given the interest so many people have in doing it other ways I accept that there are other points of view favored by many. (Although how many hundreds of posts are there with people having trouble with their tube development?) There are obviously many different ways of developing 5X7 film satisfactorily, people should obviously pick whatever they like best.

Vlad Soare
2-Jul-2008, 13:08
Kevin, you mean you rock the tray? I was talking about the method of picking the bottom sheet and inserting it on top, and doing that constantly. If you rock the tray instead, then I agree your hands don't have much influence on temperature.
In summer I start with the developer at 20 C and, if I don't use a water bath, I end up with 22 C after six minutes. If I use a water bath I can keep the developer within a few tenths of a degree from 20 C, but the temperature of the water raises constantly by approximately 0.2 degrees every minute, so I have to add fresh cold water every minute. I just don't see myself doing that in the dark without even seeing the thermometer, but who knows, maybe it would work... :confused:


This is no more messy than developing a sheet of paper when printing.
True, but in that case I can see what I'm doing. ;)


I like the fact that if something goes really wrong while developing I lose just two sheets not 6 or 10.
I'm not sure I follow you. If, let's say, the developer was dead, you'll only find that out at the very end, after all sheets are fixed. Develop six sheets, lose six sheets. Regardless whether in a tray or in a daylight tank. :confused:
Or maybe you mean you only lose two sheets because you simply don't develop more that two at once?

Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize one method or another. I'm sure tray developing has its advantages, otherwise it wouldn't be used by so many people. I'm just trying to explain why some people, myself included, go out of their way to avoid it. :)

Lenny Eiger
2-Jul-2008, 13:15
It's not exactly being in the dark that's the problem (after all, a "daylight tank" is still loaded in complete darkness). It's doing a delicate procedure in the dark, a procedure where a little mistake could mean a ruined negative.

This is a matter of practice. I spent so much time in the dark I know where everything is, how far from myhand, etc. It doesn't mean you have to do it this way - its just that I don't think its as difficult as you imagine.



How can you keep the temperature steady in the dark, with both hands immersed in the developer?

Temperature control - to a particular degree, C or F is unimportant. What matters is that one does the same thing every time. If one has one's hands in the developer always, then the amount of heat in your hand will transfer at the same rate each time.

I routinely process up to 8 sheets of 8x10 at the same time. I agitate for the first and last minute continuously and rotate once thru the stack every 30 secs, which equals about 10-12 secs of agitation.

Lenny

Kevin Crisp
2-Jul-2008, 13:22
I am rocking the tray in the manner recommended by Kodak for tray development of TMAX in their publication of a few years back. Pick up the right side of the tray and put it down, then the front, then the left side, then the front, etc. A cycle takes about 8 seconds. This is a gentle, constant agitation, since the slosher lets the sheets move around some and the dividers are so narrow there is considerable randomness to it.

I try to match the darkroom temp to approximately the solution temp, though getting the solutions all to be the same and a reasonable match for the wash is more important to me than that. Obviously if the dark room is much warmer than the solution, the solutions will get warmer faster. I think the drift even in the range you describe isn't going to make a significant difference with most materials, but the compensating timer handles it.

Yes, I am doing two sheets, roughly 16 an hour.

dasBlute
3-Jul-2008, 12:35
I'll second for the Unicolor 8x10 print drum, I got a motor and three drums
of various sizes for $75. The motor doesn't spin too fast, doesn't leak
much :) . I use 500ml D76 1:1 for two sheets. The negs look great.

Glenn Thoreson
3-Jul-2008, 14:45
A Unicolor print drum and roller will do two 5X7 at a time, in the light after loading. Cheap, super easy and very effective.