Foma 4x5 film [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Jiri Vasina

26-Jun-2008, 13:50

As per my direct question to Foma, they do not produce Fomapan 400 in sheets. I was told that not even by special arrangement. Only rolls and SF.

Fomapan 100 and 200 are produced in sheets regularly. (But when I asked about availability of non-standard sizes - 5x12" and 5x8" specifically - I was told that again they would not cut it. They did not even offer cutting it with a minimum volume.).

(Btw. Fomapan 400 is a horrible film. All the films have way different characteristics, so if you have not tried Fomapan 400 in rolls, don't assume anything about it. And I'm not against Foma, I love Fomapan 100, it's my main film.)

Neil Purling

26-Jun-2008, 14:34

Foma 100 seems to be right with 8 min @20C in R09 dil 1:50.
Ilford FP4 wants 15 min for the same dilution & temp.
It is an amazingly short development time for Foma 100.

I just wanted to know if the Foma 400 cut in 4x5 was perhaps made but not imported into the UK.
What is it that is bad about Foma 400 in other formats? Is it the grain or contrast?

jmcd

26-Jun-2008, 15:49

My information on Foma 400 must be out of date, from the Fomapan 400 Action data sheet, "Other sizes are subject of an agreement with the manufacturer."

Jiri Vasina

26-Jun-2008, 22:36

Fomapan 400 is bad because it's a bit inconsistent in sensitivity (even among different rolls in the same batch). It's very contrasty with very prominent grain and low shadow details (even when I tried highly diluted R09 and stand development). It might work acceptably (and usually works) at EI 250-320, but if you try to push it just a little bit, it starts to fall apart - in that regard it's much worse than any other 400 film I have tried (Delta 400, HP5+, Rollei Retro 400, Neopan 400, Kodak TMax 400). Even Delta 3200 @ EI 6400 (in R09) is better than Fomapan 400 @ EI 800.

And yes, in the data sheet, there is that sentence, but I think they might think different roll sizes (70?). Sheet film is coated on a different base than roll films and they do not coat the 400 emulsion on the sheet film base - at least that's what info I was given by the Foma clerk I contacted.

Maybe you would have better luck with persuading them to cut a different size [of 100 and 200], maybe my order was just too small. Maybe you only have to wave enough money in their face :) ...

Vlad Soare

27-Jun-2008, 00:04

I had heard that Foma 400 is unpushable, which also results from Foma's technical data sheets (which, by the way, I find excellent), but I wanted to see it with my own eyes. I exposed half a 35mm roll at EI 800 and the other half at EI 1600, then developed it in R09 1+20, 20 minutes at 20 degrees Centigrade.

You may say that R09 is not exactly the right developer for the job, because of the tendency of Rodinal-type developers to lose some speed. However, I made this choice because these developers are very good for pushing. At EI 800 and above (and even at 400, according to the data sheet), details in the shadows would be lost no matter what, so there would be little, if any, difference between R09 and a speed-enhancing developer.

Here's one exposed at EI 800:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4254/8001sx6.jpg
and a 100% crop at 1200 ppi:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8548/8002yt3.jpg

Here's one exposed at EI 1600:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8759/16001uf4.jpg
and a 100% crop at 1200 ppi:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6475/16002cm5.jpg

The images exposed at EI 800 turned out pretty fine. Somewhat increased grain and contrast, but nothing outrageous.
At EI 1600 it's much worse: black shadows, blown out highlights, grains the size of golf balls, a negative which is difficult to print (I managed to print it with a no. 5 filter just to prove myself that I can do it, but it was no fun). However, if you happen to have Foma 400 loaded, and you must react at a split second's notice or else lose the picture of your life, it gets the job done.

Vlad Soare

27-Jun-2008, 00:11

Foma doesn't list sheet sizes as an option for the 200 version, but I saw it available in 4x5" from a couple of suppliers. I guess they can make it if there's sufficient demand.
I don't know about the 400 though. I've never seen it offered in 4x5" by any supplier, so Jíři may be right.

Gene McCluney

27-Jun-2008, 23:50

I "think" Fomapan 200 is only supplied in sheets to USA.

Jiri Vasina

28-Jun-2008, 00:02

It is possible to order Fomapan 200 in sheets also from some suppliers in the Western Europe (Norway, possibly Germany and UK), but from my inquiries here in the Czech Republic, it's very difficult to obtain it locally (and that I find very strange of them. What business model does it support not to offer it here when they produce it here in the Czech Republic?)

katie cooke

28-Jun-2008, 01:34

In the UK, Silverprint stocks Foma 200 4x5 and 8x10 sheets.

Scott Davis

28-Jun-2008, 08:19

It is also available here in the US in 5x7 (fomapan 200 that is) both as Fomapan and as Arista.EDU Ultra from Freestyle. I have not seen the 200 in anything bigger than 8x10 - it would be very nice to have it available in 11x14, and it would also be great if they would make it in the odd sizes like 5x12 or 7x17. Perhaps we could organize a group buy from this forum that would make it worth their while?

Jiri Vasina

28-Jun-2008, 08:30

Maybe "you overseas" could make a deal with them (at Foma), but when I asked about the possibility of cutting Fomapan 100 or 200 to a different non-standard size, I was put down. And that is put down like in "no, it's not possible", not "no, it would be expensive, you would have to order at least ...".

But by all means do try asking. They might change their mind and see the need for a bit of flexibility.

Gene McCluney

29-Jun-2008, 00:42

How are these films with reciprocity? Long exposures of 15-45 minutes or so?

How does the film consistency and quality compare to something like Ilford FP4+?

Maybe checking with Photo Warehouse in Oxnard, CA would result in them being able to buy rolls of the film and cutting to size as they used to do with Ilford. (sure wish Ilford would license it to them to do for odd sizes now instead of the once a year thing)

Fomapan 200, while one of my favorite films, is almost the worst choice if reciprocity is a consideration. It has horrible reciprocity characteristics. You will be making multiple-hours long exposures if you need an exposure of 15 minutes or more.

Jiri Vasina

29-Jun-2008, 02:06

Fomapan 100 is only very slightly better with reciprocity characteristics - you are better of choosing a different film for those long exposures.

(Fomapan 100:
1-10s, add 1EV - exposure should be twice as long.
10-100s, add 3EV - exposure should be 8x (!) as long.
more than 100s, add 4 EV - exposure should be 16x as long (!!!).

Fomapan 200:
1-10s, add 1.5EV - exposure should be 3x as long.
10-100s, add 3EV - exposure should be 9x as long.
more than 100s, add 4EV - 16x as long exposure.

So you see, not a good one).

Gene McCluney

2-Jul-2008, 00:07

Maybe checking with Photo Warehouse in Oxnard, CA would result in them being able to buy rolls of the film and cutting to size as they used to do with Ilford. (sure wish Ilford would license it to them to do for odd sizes now instead of the once a year thing)

It has been several years since Photo Warehouse has had a bulk roll of (camera type) film to cut-down. If they were really interested in continuing to do this, I would think they would have explored the possibilities by now. Efke/Adox and Foma, as well as Era in China would probably be sources they could utilize. I just don't think they are very excited about continuing this service. Consider that Maco in Germany continues to offer unique films that they have cut to size.

Neil Purling

2-Jul-2008, 01:09

How does the reciprocity of Foma 100 compare to Ilford FP4?

Gene McCluney

2-Jul-2008, 13:36

How does the reciprocity of Foma 100 compare to Ilford FP4?

Foma is one of the worst brands for reciprocity. Ilford is one of the best. They are miles apart.

Vlad Soare

2-Jul-2008, 21:13

According to the data sheets, Foma 100 seems to be worse in this respect than FP4, although FP4 isn't exactly state of the art either (at least if you compare it with the Across, which up to 120 seconds needs no compensation, and only half a stop between 120 and 1000 seconds :)).

nelsonfotodotcom

2-Jul-2008, 23:21

Acros is lovely stuff for extended exposures. My favorite film. Need to restock, come to think of it.

eddie

3-Jul-2008, 04:08

How does the reciprocity of Foma 100 compare to Ilford FP4?

i have used both in my pinhole cameras. i would say foma100 is slower....but they are both very very bad for reciprocity issues.

when i need "speed" i use tmax 100, acros, and color neg film. tmax400 is supposed to be pretty "fast" for reciprocity shooting but i have not tried it.

eddie

Neil Purling

3-Jul-2008, 23:01

I thank you for the warning over the awful reciprocity characteristics of the Foma 100.
This is going to be relevant if I am shooting with one of my Wide-Angle Rectilinear's on a cloudy day and necessarily using f32 or 44.

Neil Purling

4-Apr-2016, 00:24

Upon returning to large format after a break I now see that Fomapan 400 is available in 4x5 sheet & I have a box of it on the way to me.
When using Fomapan 400 in 35mm I found it grainy and lacked shadow detail if you tried to use it at anywhere near the official speed.
I came across a review by a Mr Tester in Australia with the same sort of experience in regard to the shadow detail.

If you look at the technical information in detail the actual speed of the film is really only around 200ASA. I rated the Foma 400 at 200 and got lovely shadow detail, which is the conclusion Mr tester arrived at from his experience with the film. So, when the box of film arrives I will just rate the stuff at 200.
I will do the same when my box of film arrives. The Foma data on the 400 shows the film is really only 200 from the development curves.
The only developer I have in enough quantity is Rodinal & Foma state 11-12 min in Rodinal dil 1:50. My initial tests will be at 200 ASA & developed for 11min.

plaubel

4-Apr-2016, 02:55

As per my direct question to Foma, they do not produce Fomapan 400 in sheets.

Jiri, this means absolutely nothing concerning ability of sheetfilm in general.

As usual, every film producer produces his film on rolls. On big rolls.
Sometimes the film producer is configurating this rolls himself with all demanded sizes, sometimes not.
In this case, Foma in own words gave up cutting "exotic" sizes, but others do cut.
General photo (Laborpartner/Compard) par example is possible to cut big rolls to sheets.

No wonder that Maco offers Fomapan 400 sheets from 9x12cm up to ULF.
https://www.macodirect.de/film/schwarzweissfilm/fomapan-400-planfilm-9x12cm-50-blatt

""Sheet film is coated on a different base than roll films and they do not coat the 400 emulsion on the sheet film base - at least that's what info I was given by the Foma clerk I contacted.""

So taking informations from Foma clerks sometimes may not mean much, too?
That's my experience, too :-)

But today, there exist some possibilities.
I can imagine Innoviscoat coating the Fomapan 400 formula to a sheet film base.
I can imagine Maco saying to Foma "hepp, produce this film exclusively for us".
And so on..

Yes, the policy of Foma seems to be full of wonders; but they have less capacities, oldstyle technique, and, in my opinion, some not so good contracts to some salesmen.

Ritchie

Kyle M.

4-Apr-2016, 03:22

plaubel

4-Apr-2016, 03:42

Kyle, this doesn't necessarily depend on Foma themselves.
Too much reasons overthere...

Par example, Foma has an online shop, europeanwide, very nice prices, expressed in Euro ( don't forget, they call it European Union here).
But: As a "neighbour" of us, they don't ship to Germany !
Asking Foma, they love to explain with problems with shipping companies, ha!

Impex and Maco are the lone distributors here; comparing the prices Germany/Tchech will explain a bit more to the story.
I am allowed to buy from them, or alternatively I can buy from the little daughter of Foma in Norway. Nice prices there, but ugly taxes to us .

I also can go to Tchech, only 600 Km, buying directly in the Foma Shop (directly from producer to customer); but online, from Tchech to Germany? No way.

Ritchie

Neil Purling

4-Apr-2016, 04:30

The Fomapan 400 I bought from a UK camera store. It will arrive on the 5th ir 6th April.
When I hear 'exotic' sizes mentioned I think of obsolete formats or the really large stuff, where normally the only available film is blue or green sensitive X-ray film. I don't recall if Ilford custom cut film to quarter, half or whole plate. I guess it depends on demand.
The low demand is probably why Foma does not do that sort of thing.

I used to use a lot of Fomapan 200 before it disappeared & then when it re-appeared it had coating issues. As I rated the stuff at 125 ASA it was my substitute for FP4.

I have not used Kodak B&W 4x5 other than what I have got in job lots or part-used boxes from studio disposals. Given their current price is 3x the cost of Foma for fifty sheets. It looks like Kodak is 30% more expensive than Ilford.
You can see why I would buy the Fomapan.

MartinP

4-Apr-2016, 05:31

It seems strange to me that you can't get Fomapan 400 in 4x5 sheets across the pond. Because Freestyle here in the U.S. stocks it. Unless this is just old stock they are using up, but normally they would say so. I would think that if you could buy a European film in the U.S. then it would certainly be possible to get it over there.

The thread is/was rather old.

In Europe, you can now buy 'off-the-shelf' (ie. not as special order materials, or sizes) Fomapan- 100, 200, 400 and Retropan320 in most sizes from 9x12cm to 8x10". For ULF or weird sizes then IlfordPhoto (Harman) continue to be the main source, with their annual special-order process.

IanG

4-Apr-2016, 06:20

It seems strange to me that you can't get Fomapan 400 in 4x5 sheets across the pond. Because Freestyle here in the U.S. stocks it. Unless this is just old stock they are using up, but normally they would say so. I would think that if you could buy a European film in the U.S. then it would certainly be possible to get it over there.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/4204450-Foma-Fomapan-400-iso-4x5-50-sheets

You can get Foma 5x4 film in Europe, what you have to remember though is that outside of the UK it wasn't a standard size in Continental Europe where the German 9x12 format was used instead. The same went for 7x5 in the UK and Europe, the UK had Half plate and Europe 13x18.

It's only in recent years that 5x4 has become more common in Europe and 7x5 in the UK.

Ian