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ray_sheeth
13-Jun-2008, 21:51
I was thinking of getting a 5X7 Shen-Hao or an Okasa. My primary interest is landscape and I would prefer a rotating back. (I know if I don't get a camera with this feature- I will kick myself later!) Although I could spend more I would prefer o keep the price under $1500.00 (U.S.) My primary lens is the Super-Symmar 110XL and thru forums I have been told this lens image circle will fit on a 5X7. I, also don't require a great deal of movement, but on the other hand I don't know that I would be happy with a Walker XL. (even if I could afford it and keep my wife happy) Any advice would be greatly appreciated because my knowledge of this field is greatly inadequate. Although there is one thing I do know - I want a field camera not a monorail (been there done that)
For the record, I want a 5x7 over a 4x5 because I want to get into black & white contact printing. (there is not a whole lot of places that can handle large format anymore) Thanks again!

seawolf66
14-Jun-2008, 04:23
To keep the wife happy is simple by the best at the lowest and then she will say that wasnt so bad and you left me some spending money: I've had two wifes !! [running for cover] Go to KEH and watch their web site and you should find a dam good camera wooden field I mean for under $1,ooo.oo, otherwise its time to go hunting ; Midwest camera , Viewcamera shop , Igor cameras, and there are many more names of places to look: for lenses information go to cameraeccentric.com and read thru their vast posting of booklets: Myself I am in the process of locating a Heavy duty G.A.S. pill to take for this G.A.S. problem I have and others seem to have, when it comes to large format equipment:

seawolf66
14-Jun-2008, 06:08
Ray: right at this moment they have a linhof 5x7 up for sale: ][ 5X7 LINHOF TECH IV BURGUNDY WITH GRIP, CABLE BELLOWS BAD, RANGEFINDER INOPERATIVE, LARGE FORMAT VIEW FOLDING CAMERA [] grade BGN -$999.99 : and there is lot of use folks here have no problems with their BGN grade-ing on the stuff they sell:

Brian Ellis
14-Jun-2008, 07:09
Not sure exactly what you have in mind with a "rotating back." Almost all 5x7 field cameras have the capability of making horizontal or vertical photographs without turning the camera on its side. It's just a question of whether the back rotates while on the camera or whether you remove the back and reorient it to vertical. Either one is very simple to do so I wouldn't worry too much about which way it's done with whatever camera you buy.

Either of the cameras you mention should work fine for landscape photography. I'm not familiar with the Osaka and Shen Hao in 5x7 but in 4x5 an Osaka is a re-badged Tachihara, I assume it's the same in 5x7. In 4x5 Shen Haos are about 2 lbs heavier than Tachiharas but have a couple more movements that IMHO aren't important for landscape photography. I don't know if those differences hold true in 5x7 or not.

With respect to contact prints, I moved from 4x5 to 5x7 for the same reason you're thinking of 5x7 - ability to contact print. I discovered that for me, while a 5x7 print occasionally worked, in general it was too small to be consistently effective, especially for many landscapes. Since you're interested in contact printing you might give some thought to an 8x10 system. For me that was the smallest size that consistently worked pretty well for contact prints. 5x7 is a very appealing aspect ratio though so I can understand your interest in it.

With a wife to consider, buying a wood camera is a good idea. They all tend to look more or less alike to a non-photographer so when you buy a new one and it arrives at home in the mail you can just say it's your old one that you sent out for repair.

John Kasaian
14-Jun-2008, 08:08
I agree with Brian Ellis, a simple reversing back is as good as a rotating back.
If you are at the "thinking" stage and you are on a Bride pleasing budget I think you'll get more value with carefully selected used gear.
Another issue you didn't mention is how far away from your vehicle do you plan on shooting your landscapes? If hiking for miles is a possibility, I think that would have something to do with selecting the gear for your kit.
For hiking, I think the cat's meow is the Nagaoka! Ultralight wieght though at the expense of bellows length. If you can settle for medium to wide lenses IMHO this is the one to look for--they rarely show up on ebay though :(

The Technika mentioned above would be a fine camera to look at too--it will let you work "hand held" which is something few other 5x7s will allow. It adds a whole new dimension to LF! While $1,000 isn't budget friendly (my budget anyway) the Linhof is a suberb camera (the term "Gold Standard" comes to mind!) Another "Gold Standard" are the Deardorffs. The front swing modes are preferrable IMHO and if you can find a good one under $750 you'll have a superior camera for far less than anything you can buy new IMHO.
Far more budget friendly are flat beds like the Agfa Ansco Universal, Kodak 2D and Burk & James. Expect to pay $200-$400 for a good one. These are all excellent cameras with tons of movement. The only drawback is that they fold up into chunky cubes as opposed to the slim clamshells like the 'dorff and Nagaoka. They'll still easily fit into a day pack for hikes and they'll usually fold up with a lens in place. With clamshells you more often than not have to reverse the lensboard to close them up.

I'd suggest contacting Jim at Midwest Photo Exchange---name your requirements and budget and he can probably set you up with a good kit you can start using asap, without having to futz around with leaky bellows and balky shutters you'll risk getting junkers on ebay.

For lenses, some of my 5x7 faves are the 14" APO Artar and the 215mm Ilex/Calumet. With a little shopping around you can probably find one for not too much dinero. A 150 G Claron would make a beautiful "wide" on a 5x7 if that is how you visualize the world. Whatever you do get one lens and stick with it. Add another when you have a real need. Magic bullet chasing is a loosing propostion and a good way to waste time and $$. If you are just starting out, resist!

Just make sure you have a tripod that will handle your new camera, get some film holders and the rest, as they say, will be history! :)
Happy Hunting!

Oren Grad
14-Jun-2008, 12:44
The 5x7 Osaka/Tachihara is a nice camera and a reasonable value, but it is quite heavy for the format - more than 8 pounds. At least from the specifications for the FCL-57A model on the Badger Graphic website, the Shen Hao should be noticeably lighter.

For 5x7 I use a Nagaoka which weighs less than 4 pounds. I love it, but there are definitely tradeoffs in robustness of construction and range of movements to get the weight down that low. Also, they're no longer available new in the US.

ray_sheeth
14-Jun-2008, 18:39
Thanks all of you for your advice! But unfortunately (as always) this leads to more questions.

1)Is there any retailers dealing in large format equipment besides the ones I mentioned that I need to know about?

2) I never considered of getting a 8X10 for my next camera. What you said does consider merit, although larger than a 4X5, it is still reletively small for contact prints. Looks like I need to research some more before I take the plunge (but 110 XL does not cover a 8X10 - I like the lens I would to hate to let it go)

3) I found a used 5X7 Nagaoka in my travels with a 4X5 reducing back (condition 8+)

4) Usually I keep fairly close to my truck, lugging around a monorail is not my idea of fun. My tripod is a Gitzo - I doubt there is a camera made that it can't handle. (although, it weighs more than most cameras)

I am glad this forum is still around - there is a wealth of knowledge in these forums, I browse them regularly

lutherasmith
14-Jun-2008, 18:55
Badgergraphics.com sell large format equipment and if you ever get interested in color 5X7 they import fujichrome. 5x7 color is hard to find. BH sells Portra in 5x7.

8x10 is a nicer size for contact prints. 5x7 starts to look like a postage stamp on a wall. Of course many people like little contact prints.

The problem with 8x10 is it is very easy to start cost accounting when you are shooting. I try to not think about the cost of the film but it may come into play with the 8x10.

Since you aren't working far from the car 8x10 would be easy.

John Kasaian
14-Jun-2008, 19:33
Re. #2) Well, 8x10 certainly rocks! You'll need a tripod that can support one. I find the size excellent for contacts---it makes 5x7 look downright puny.

Re.#3) If you have a chance for a 5x7 Nagaoka and the price is within reason you should have no problem reselling it if it is not to your liking---you might even turn a profit!

Nick_3536
14-Jun-2008, 23:54
If you increase the budget a little bit the Shen FCL-810 coupled with the 5x7 back will do what you want. You get to shoot 5x7,8x10 or if you add the 4x10 back 4x10. It will easily handle short lenses like the 110mm you talked about. Which is fairly wide on 5x7. Even wider on 4x10 which it should easily cover IIRC.

It's a fairly light 8x10. I'd be hard pressed to suggest the 5x7 with the relatively small increase in price and weight for the 8x10.

Matus Kalisky
15-Jun-2008, 04:34
Ray, you say you want to do contact prints. Well - I am shooting only 4x5 and contacts are indeed for most occasions a bit too small (I would probably not call 4x5 large format :D ). I am thinking (for the far, far future) to get maybe 5x12 or 7x11 as 8x10 is too square for my taste. So - I have just digitally printed some scans from my 4x5 cropped and scaled to the size of 5x12 and 7x11 contact prints. I will do more in the future - but my feeling is that landscape printed smaller than 7x11 would probably be just too small. For potraits or some macro/table top - 5x7 could be probably fine. I just want to say - think twice before you buy.

Chuck Pere
15-Jun-2008, 06:38
I wouldn't buy a 5x7 Nagaoka if it only had a 4x5 back and no 5x7 back. Your chances of finding a 5x7 back only are pretty slim. Take a good look at some prints made to 5x7 and 8x10 and decided what size you like. Of course subject factors in a lot here. I'd say that if you can handle the extra weight and size go with the 8x10. More film is available but it does cost more. If you have enlarging options 5x7 could be nice. Contact looks small just enlarge it.

ray_sheeth
19-Jun-2008, 13:08
After looking around for 8x10's, or the lack of them, I am currently looking at the Tachihara 810GF or the Shen-Hao FCL 810-A. (although the Shen-Hao is a little more than I want to spend)
1)What do YOU think about these cameras?
2)Concerning wooden cameras, do they stand up well in humid climates?
I have been told that my 110mm XL will cover 8x10. According to my chart, the image circle sits around 288, and looks like 310 barely covers. I think I need several different opinions on this before I start taking pictures and finding corners cut off.
3)What do you think? (even from a noobie 110mm on a 8x10 is a little wide!)

Again, I appreciate all your input in all this!!!

For the record, ray_sheeth is Hebrew and its translation means simply "a beginning".
(it is appropriate I would think)

You need to crawl before you can walk and you need to walk before can run)

Ole Tjugen
19-Jun-2008, 13:54
I shoot 4x5", 5x7", 8x10" - as well as the metric sizes 6.5x9, 9x12, 13x18, 18x24, 24x30 and 30x40cm...

I started out with a 5x7" Linhof Technika, which I later replaced with a 7x5" (sic) Gandolfi Traditional. The Gandolfi is the only wooden camera I have seen, felt or fondled that comes close to the solidity and rigidity of the Technika. So I bought an 8x10" version, too, when I decided to try that format...

IMO the gain in going from 5x7" to 8x10" is mostly in weight and cost. For contact printing I use either 5x7" or 24x30 / 30x40cm, where the 5x7" has the added advantage that I have an enlarger for it.

http://www.bruraholo.no/images/Senja_2007/Senja04.jpg was shot with a 121mm lens on 8x10", and it's hysterically wide. It also doesn't quite cover - and the image circle is 288mm. It was made to cover 18x24cm, which is just that much smaller. The 110mm XL has slightly less even illumination, so I would hesitate to recommend it for 8x10". A lens aroung 210mm will give less exaggerated wide-angle view. http://www.bruraholo.no/images/Senja_2007/Scan-070713-0011.jpg was shot from the same spot with a 240mm lens, IIRC.

The climate here in western Norway is humid too, but the temperature is quite likely lower than wherever you are. Wooden cameras have no problems even if it rains 300 days per year.

Cesar Barreto
19-Jun-2008, 16:10
Hi, Ray.

Years ago I went to Fernando de Noronha Islands, in northest Brazil, shooting with a 4x5' Tachihara and almost everyday, after being for hours on the seaside, I did almost wash my whole gear due to dried salt spread everywhere. On some places I had to clean my glass each 10 minutes and even after 10 days on this inclement weather the camera never showed any signs of regrets, neither told me: hey, what you think you're doing with me?
So I would say that wood cameras can be the best mate one could expect on any kind of weather and would never doubt about taking it anywhere.

Bill_1856
19-Jun-2008, 17:28
Grab the 5x7 (+4x5 back) Nagaoka! Quick!

Ernest Purdum
19-Jun-2008, 18:39
Buying cameras and lenses is a very personal matter. I always suggest starting with relatively inexpensive used equipment. It will teach you what features and characteristics are important to you. If we weren't individuals we'd all take the same pictures. The nice thing is that after you have learned what you' really like, if your first purchase isn't it, you can probably sell it for at least close to what you paid for it. Cheap rent!

Gene McCluney
19-Jun-2008, 19:11
Wooden cameras have been around since the dawn of photography (1850's), and if they have been taken care of will work just fine today. Of course bellows material needs to be replaced ever 1/4 to 1/2 century. Don't worry about the longevity of wooden cameras. There are quite a few wood camera craftsmen that can make you a new part for any vintage wood view camera...try that with a super-dooper all metal whiz-bang medium format camera.

audioexcels
20-Jun-2008, 01:33
I shoot 4x5", 5x7", 8x10" - as well as the metric sizes 6.5x9, 9x12, 13x18, 18x24, 24x30 and 30x40cm...

I started out with a 5x7" Linhof Technika, which I later replaced with a 7x5" (sic) Gandolfi Traditional. The Gandolfi is the only wooden camera I have seen, felt or fondled that comes close to the solidity and rigidity of the Technika. So I bought an 8x10" version, too, when I decided to try that format...

IMO the gain in going from 5x7" to 8x10" is mostly in weight and cost. For contact printing I use either 5x7" or 24x30 / 30x40cm, where the 5x7" has the added advantage that I have an enlarger for it.

http://www.bruraholo.no/images/Senja_2007/Senja04.jpg was shot with a 121mm lens on 8x10", and it's hysterically wide. It also doesn't quite cover - and the image circle is 288mm. It was made to cover 18x24cm, which is just that much smaller. The 110mm XL has slightly less even illumination, so I would hesitate to recommend it for 8x10". A lens aroung 210mm will give less exaggerated wide-angle view. http://www.bruraholo.no/images/Senja_2007/Scan-070713-0011.jpg was shot from the same spot with a 240mm lens, IIRC.

The climate here in western Norway is humid too, but the temperature is quite likely lower than wherever you are. Wooden cameras have no problems even if it rains 300 days per year.

I actually like that 121mm shot if you had better lighting/contrast like the photo using the 240. Can you somehow touch up the 121 shot and give it a more contrasty look like the one taken with the 240 so it gives the 121 shot a bit more pop;)?