White Squaw (rock?) Colorado

[John Kasaian]

It is a landmark. From the scan of the sketch I have, it looks a bit like the recently deceased "Old Man in The Mountain" in New Hampshire but "White Squaw" should be somewhere between Salida and Montrose along or near the old Denver and Rio Grande route which crossed Marshall Pass. I've been trying to find where it is exactly, but so far no luck. I was wondering if any Coloradoans here might know it's whereabouts.

I did a search and the only White Squaw the 'puter came up with was one in Oregon.
So----
Has anyone ever heard of this rock and if so, where exactly is it in Colorado?

[Nathan Potter]

John, I've been over that road several times - looked for it but not been able to see anything resembling a white squaw. I'll poke thru some of my literature - you've re-ignited my curiosity.

Nate Potter

[rippo]

i don't know colorado, but i do know google. :) there's a place in colorado called "squaw rock", apparently near some chalk bluffs (which would likely be white in color). same thing? here's a link:

http://www.mountainzone.com/mountains/detail.asp?fid=1259156

[Donald Miller]

John, Weld County is in northern Colorado and quite far removed from what you described.

The only thing that I can offer is that between Buena Vista and Salida...to the west of the highway and in the direction of the fourteen thousand foot peaks of the Collegiate Range is a place that has some chalky type deposits that are unusual for that region. Antero Hot Springs is in that region. I have never heard of the rock formation you describe. Antero Hot Springs would be somewhere in the region that you describe...however Montrose is quite a bit further west of there.

[John Kasaian]

John, Weld County is in northern Colorado and quite far removed from what you described.

The only thing that I can offer is that between Buena Vista and Salida...to the west of the highway and in the direction of the fourteen thousand foot peaks of the Collegiate Range is a place that has some chalky type deposits that are unusual for that region. Antero Hot Springs is in that region. I have never heard of the rock formation you describe. Antero Hot Springs would be somewhere in the region that you describe...however Montrose is quite a bit further west of there.

If the sketches in the sketchbook were drawn in order, the illusive White Squaw should be somewhere between Cimarron and the Uncompahgre River thats 1891 immigrant spelling, btw) There is also a sketch of "Vernal (illegible) that looks like a deep chasm splitting a mountain which, once again if the sketches were made in order would be between the Uncompahgre River and Black Canon (canyon). There are also two sketches of the Curecanti Needle in between the sketches of Cimarron and Marshall Pass, so I'm guessing my circa 1891 tourist was eventually headed Eastbound on the Denver and Rio Grande. There are also a few hand drawn maps I'm attempting to decipher, one of the maps has "8 Mile Park" and "12 Mile Park":confused:
There's nothing like that on my AAA map!

Thanks for any and all info! :)

[Michael T. Murphy]

Somewhat OT, but this is interesting if you are not familiar with it:

http://www.thirdview.org/3v/home/index.html


Mark Klett and the Rephotographic Project. Basically doing the same thing, tracking down the exact site of older photographs (OK, sounds like yours is a drawing) and making new photographs at the same location.

They may have some techniques taht offer insight.

Good luck.

[Keith Pitman]

The only thing that I can offer is that between Buena Vista and Salida...to the west of the highway and in the direction of the fourteen thousand foot peaks of the Collegiate Range is a place that has some chalky type deposits that are unusual for that region. Antero Hot Springs is in that region. I have never heard of the rock formation you describe. Antero Hot Springs would be somewhere in the region that you describe...however Montrose is quite a bit further west of there.

This area is referred to as the Chalk Cliffs. I've been there a number of times, but couldn't tell you about a formation with the White Squaw name. Knowing the way geographical naming goes, it may have had one name when the drawing was made, and have been renamed (possibly several times) since that time.

If you come out to search for it, let me know; I'll help you look, and make a few photos, too.

[Donald Miller]

If the sketches in the sketchbook were drawn in order, the illusive White Squaw should be somewhere between Cimarron and the Uncompahgre River thats 1891 immigrant spelling, btw) There is also a sketch of "Vernal (illegible) that looks like a deep chasm splitting a mountain which, once again if the sketches were made in order would be between the Uncompahgre River and Black Canon (canyon). There are also two sketches of the Curecanti Needle in between the sketches of Cimarron and Marshall Pass, so I'm guessing my circa 1891 tourist was eventually headed Eastbound on the Denver and Rio Grande. There are also a few hand drawn maps I'm attempting to decipher, one of the maps has "8 Mile Park" and "12 Mile Park":confused:
There's nothing like that on my AAA map!

Thanks for any and all info! :)

John,

This is intriguing. Sounds like a lot of fun to try and locate. I almost wish that I was going on the quest with you. The Uncompahgre River is a relatively short river that joins the Animas River and continues as such southward. It lies much further west than the area I mentioned earlier.

The Cimarron River is a tributary of the Arkansas River and exists in the southeastern corner of Colorado...very much distant from your desription. The other river that may have been confused with the Cimarron is the Rio Grande...it has it's headwaters near Crede, Colorado...that is much more in keeping with your description.

Considering that deep chasms are normally created by water courses and if I understand your description as eliminating the Black Canyon of the Gunnison than that leaves only one water course...that being the Gunnison River itself. Now there is a deep canyon that lies ahead (east) of the Black Canyon which is presently dammed as the retaining structure for the Blue Mesa Reservoir in Gunnison County, Colorado. This would be located between Gunnison and Montrose Colorado...to the north of the present day highway. Since it is inundated, one has very limited access to what may have been there when the sketch was made. Access to the dam is available...or at least it was the last time that I was in that area.

I don't recall any chalky rock naturally deposited in this area however. The Crestone Peak and Needle (both 14 thousand foot peaks) lie to the east of this region in the Sangre De Cristo range. However I have not heard of the Curecanti Needle. There is a Curecanti Recreation Area that lies between Blue Mesa Reservoir and the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. It has access to a remarkable dam structure.


The only other deep chasm that I recall is the Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River...but it would be further east and north of the area that you describe.

Sounds like a road trip to me.

Good luck to you.

[Donald Miller]

John,

I have located a reference to a twelve mile park (Smiths Gulch) in Fremont County Colorado. The county seat of Fremont County is Canon City Colorado. Canon City is noteworthy since it lies very near the Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River.

[Donald Miller]

This area is referred to as the Chalk Cliffs. I've been there a number of times, but couldn't tell you about a formation with the White Squaw name. Knowing the way geographical naming goes, it may have had one name when the drawing was made, and have been renamed (possibly several times) since that time.

If you come out to search for it, let me know; I'll help you look, and make a few photos, too.


Thanks for the offer and the information. Yes, the Chalk Cliffs brings back some memories to me. However, like you, I don't know of any reference by the name that John mentioned.

BTW did anyone ever buy the town of St Elmo? The whole darn place was up for sale the last time I was there.

Thanks again.

[Donald Miller]

Somewhat OT, but this is interesting if you are not familiar with it:

http://www.thirdview.org/3v/home/index.html


Mark Klett and the Rephotographic Project. Basically doing the same thing, tracking down the exact site of older photographs (OK, sounds like yours is a drawing) and making new photographs at the same location.

They may have some techniques taht offer insight.

Good luck.

Nice link...very interesting. Thanks

[Keith Pitman]

BTW did anyone ever buy the town of St Elmo? The whole darn place was up for sale the last time I was there.

Thanks again.

How long ago was that?

The first time I was there was around 1958. As I remember it, at that time, an old woman owned the town and had either just died or been taken somewhere because she was incompetent. I also remember that there was a building full of 1930's era cars. Always wanted to get back and buy them. When I finally got back around 1998, I couldn't find them.

The jailhouse burned down a few years ago and I haven't been there since, but there are a number of structures left, including a number of "historic" houses that are used as summer homes. I think there are a few full time residents.

[Donald Miller]

How long ago was that?

The first time I was there was around 1958. As I remember it, at that time, an old woman owned the town and had either just died or been taken somewhere because she was incompetent. I also remember that there was a building full of 1930's era cars. Always wanted to get back and buy them. When I finally got back around 1998, I couldn't find them.

The jailhouse burned down a few years ago and I haven't been there since, but there are a number of structures left, including a number of "historic" houses that are used as summer homes. I think there are a few full time residents.


Oh Gosh, this is going to make me think...I would guess that the last time was around 1994. I always wanted to get up to Tincup too...but never did...too many places and too little time...

[John Kasaian]

Thanks Donald and Keith! The location of 12 Mile Park is a huge help! My 19th century traveler was quite well known as a walker so it is likely he'd go on hikes. The map he drew gives miles between campsites(?) and bridge locations so that might be an easy route to track.
The sketch of Curecanti Needle would be the same one thats in Curecanti Recreation area---at least it looks like the same one. I've emailed the rangers with the place names in hope they'll have some idea where the more esoteric locations are located.
The order in which the sketches were drawn are I feel important and I'll have to recheck the scans to make sure I have everything in order.
To complicate matters there are pages missing from the sketch book consistent with the notation that he sold some of is drawings to cowboys to settlers he met along the way to finance his trip after losing a considerable sum of money to card sharks on the Denver and Rio Grande!
I'm trying to map as many locations as I can before heading out to photograph them since I'll only have a few days available to cover the area :)

[Nathan Potter]

John, I think your original assumption is possibly correct. I was looking for the face of a squaw in a rock outcrop somewhat east of Montrose. My wife had found a reference in an obscure booklet when we were in Montrose. We could not find the outcrop going east but I remember that it was supposed to be west of Cimarron. I'm studying topo maps of the area between Montrose and Cimarron and I find an outcrop named Squaw Hill (looks like a mesa formation possibly with a steep cliff type edge. This might fit in your travelers route. As you go east from Montrose you'll go through Cedar Creek (small settlement). Continue on about 2 miles and cross Rawhide Gulch and start looking south for the Squaw Hill mesa; It'll be about 2 miles to the south of the road. If you pass the Montrose resevoir you've gone too far.

Nate Potter

[John Kasaian]

Thanks, Nathan!:)

[Alan Rabe]

Just a comment. When I lived out west I was told that "peaks" that had the name of squaw were named that because they looked like a female breast. May give you an idea of what to look for.