Arca Swiss Orbix

[more photography]

I have been round the WWW, this and many other forums,and still not 100% clear about orbix movement.

I am mainly interested in Landscape, and prefer not to distort the perspective, does somebody have afull explanation or orbix, has anybody written adocument on it.

There are plenty of explanation of the web regarding ebony asymmetrical movements, also about centre movements, but not about orbix. Does it work with base tilt inthe front standard, and how do they complement each other.

Thanks in advance.

[jotloob]

The base tilt (swing) for the front and rear frame has its axis at the top of the function block , but lower than the bottom of the corresponding frame .
The orbix tilt (swing) has it axis in the middle of the frame and is only meant for the front frame . So , orbix is a supplementary tilt (swing) possibility for special situations . When shooting landscapes , in most cases I just use an orbix tilt by 5-8 degrees and receive the desired results .

[Atul Mohidekar]

Orbix adds the axis tilt capability for the front standard about the lens axis. IMO this considerably shortens the time taken to focus the camera when tilt is required, at the cost of slightly higher weight. There are two types of Orbix. Both add the ability to tilt the front standard about the lens axis. The Dynamic Orbix (older) is not geared, the Micrometric Orbix (newer) is geared. I would recommend the Micrometric Orbix if you are considering one.


// Atul

[evan clarke]

It's the best thing since buttered bread with jam. You focus the center of the GG and then click in the foreground to focus, stop down and expose...EC

[Sheldon N]

If you want to see what it looks like on the camera, check out the first picture in this thread...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=36782

I have the micrometric orbix mounted on an Arca Swiss 4x5 Field (110-141). The micrometric orbix is the second knob from the top on the right side of the photo.

Micrometric orbix is just geared front axis tilt (as opposed to the standard base tilt of the Arca). Even though it is located under the lens, it works like axis tilt because the geared track moves along a curved arc.

The real beauty of Orbix is the precision with which you can fine tune movements.

[more photography]

If you want to see what it looks like on the camera, check out the first picture in this thread...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=36782

I have the micrometric orbix mounted on an Arca Swiss 4x5 Field (110-141). The micrometric orbix is the second knob from the top on the right side of the photo.

Micrometric orbix is just geared front axis tilt (as opposed to the standard base tilt of the Arca). Even though it is located under the lens, it works like axis tilt because the geared track moves along a curved arc.

The real beauty of Orbix is the precision with which you can fine tune movements.


Thanks very much - very nice photos, will go back and leave you some feedback.

Which Camera was that ?

You talk about (110-141) what does that mean.

So - it is like an axis, You focus, tilt and focus until the whole plane is sharp.

Any advantages to normal axis, other than gearded and precision.

[marschp]

I have the Arca Swiss F-Field with micrometric orbix, a 110 front standard and 141 rear standard.

The camera has BOTH front base tilt and front centre tilts. However, the base tilt is manual - you have to push or pull it (very smooth). The centre tilt is geared, controlled by the orbix mechanism - just turn the knob and the frame tilts forwards or backwards, rotating about the centre axis of the lens.

Having used it for landscape I don't find Orbix as useful as it seemed when I first read about it. Yes, you can sometimes focus quickly if your composition includes an even distribution of subjects from front to back and from top to bottom. However, with landscape photography (mine at least) this is most often not the case, with the subjects that must be in sharp focus distributed unevenly about the image, making use of centre tilts redundant. I now find myself using front or, more usually, rear base tilts to focus.

This is a point alluded to by Jack Dykinga in his book 'Large Format Nature Photography', page 51 where he states "However, most situations encountered by the landscape photographer involve irregularly shaped subject matter with emphasis placed on the foreground. For that reason I'm apt to use a back base tilt most of the time."

If I were ordering the Arca today, knowing what I now know, I'd save the bucks and go without the Orbix mechanism. Now, if they had the option of a lightweight geared back base tilt maybe I'd go for that.

Cheers.

Paul

[more photography]

Thanks for your assistance, what is 110 front and 141 rar std, what is the difference and what value to ge from them

Thanks

[Frank Petronio]

About two years ago, Arca switched the size of their format frames (the frames that the lensboard and ground glass back clip into) from 171mm square to 141mm square. This saves weight and makes the camera more compact. Of course older 171mm bellows and such won't interchange, so now they can upsell (or upset) their old customers ;-)

They also made a variant to the 4x5 series of cameras by using a 110mm frame and lensboard for the "Field" version of the 4x5 F-line. It is lighter and more compact; its bellows is quite nice, and it is a good way to go if you are a weight shaving backpacker. However I think you give up a little bit of "rise" capability (34mm I suspect).

In practice, (and some users will argue this -- so do a search) the 171mm cameras are excellent and the switch to the smaller frames only saves a few ounces... so often a used 171mm version is a sweet deal. And even the 171 version is compact and easy to backpack, plus the larger lensboards are very nice for larger lenses!

If you are just getting into this and are a "newb" then an expensive Arca-Swiss is quite an investment to see if large format photography is going to work for you. Arca also made a 4x5 kit called the Discovery, which is quite a bargain and has all the same parts as the other 171mm cameras except for a simplified standard which uses friction movements. It's the best bang for the buck and really all that anyone needs -- the additional $ features are just that -- nice extras but not essential to making good photos. You might still find new old stock somewhere, and many come up on eBay. Lots of people buy expensive Arca, Linhof, and Ebony cameras because "they are the best" but then they never use them, so those are the best deals ever.

For that matter, a really old Arca -- the ABC series from pre-1980 -- is a fine camera and a real bargain (often less than $500). The only problem with these is that most of the parts are not forward compatible with the later F- and M-lines.

Arca-Swiss doesn't have a website and there is rarely any up to date literature available. Forums like this serve as their defacto website and technical support center ;-) There is a very good article by Kerry Thalmann in View Camera magazine's archives (I forget what issue and I am not a subscriber) and this camera repair center maintains a lot of Arca information (much of what I wrote... ;-p): http://precisioncameraworks.com/

Arca-Swiss is a strange company in the way they operate their business but their cameras are very nice and I guess they don't have to try to hard to sell or service them. Just research them before you buy and make sure parts you buy on eBay will fit your particular model.

FWIW, I think the Discovery is the way to go, they sell in the $800 range on eBay and nothing else comes close at that price range (except maybe a new Chamonix from China).

[Frank Petronio]

Not to kill a dead horse, but remember you can always ADD Orbix to your camera later on, it just costs a fee and a trip to Precision Camera Works.

[Sheldon N]

I'm not sure that Precision Camera Works can add orbix to your existing standard, unless they happen to have another orbix standard in stock and will just swap it out with you.

When I was inquiring into this earlier, Bob at Precision referred me to Diane with Arca Swiss who indicated that the standard needed to go back to France to have it retrofitted. Rod Kuklas at Photomark (another Arca expert) indicated that he wasn't sure that Arca Swiss was even doing the retrofit anymore.

Ultimately I ended up buying an entirely different Arca with Orbix (110-171 version) and pirated the Orbix standard from it to put on my 110-141 camera. I then resold the Arca 110-171 as a non-orbix camera. A lot of trouble just to add orbix, and it cost me about $500 when it was all said and done.

Regardless, if you are interested in getting Orbix I'd recommend getting it from the start.

[evan clarke]

I'm not sure that Precision Camera Works can add orbix to your existing standard, unless they happen to have another orbix standard in stock and will just swap it out with you.

When I was inquiring into this earlier, Bob at Precision referred me to Diane with Arca Swiss who indicated that the standard needed to go back to France to have it retrofitted. Rod Kuklas at Photomark (another Arca expert) indicated that he wasn't sure that Arca Swiss was even doing the retrofit anymore.

Ultimately I ended up buying an entirely different Arca with Orbix (110-171 version) and pirated the Orbix standard from it to put on my 110-141 camera. I then resold the Arca 110-171 as a non-orbix camera. A lot of trouble just to add orbix, and it cost me about $500 when it was all said and done.

Regardless, if you are interested in getting Orbix I'd recommend getting it from the start.

I added the Orbix to my 171 and Precision could not do it, it had to go to Arca and was gone a couple months. I bought my 141 with it already installed and agree with Sheldon that you should buy it on the camera...Evan Clarke

[more photography]

I have the Arca Swiss F-Field with micrometric orbix, a 110 front standard and 141 rear standard.

The camera has BOTH front base tilt and front centre tilts. However, the base tilt is manual - you have to push or pull it (very smooth). The centre tilt is geared, controlled by the orbix mechanism - just turn the knob and the frame tilts forwards or backwards, rotating about the centre axis of the lens.

Having used it for landscape I don't find Orbix as useful as it seemed when I first read about it. Yes, you can sometimes focus quickly if your composition includes an even distribution of subjects from front to back and from top to bottom. However, with landscape photography (mine at least) this is most often not the case, with the subjects that must be in sharp focus distributed unevenly about the image, making use of centre tilts redundant. I now find myself using front or, more usually, rear base tilts to focus.

This is a point alluded to by Jack Dykinga in his book 'Large Format Nature Photography', page 51 where he states "However, most situations encountered by the landscape photographer involve irregularly shaped subject matter with emphasis placed on the foreground. For that reason I'm apt to use a back base tilt most of the time."

If I were ordering the Arca today, knowing what I now know, I'd save the bucks and go without the Orbix mechanism. Now, if they had the option of a lightweight geared back base tilt maybe I'd go for that.

Cheers.

Paul

Paul your photos are fantastice.

One question - which I don't even Robert White did not know, what is the amteral the Arca made from , steel, Alumuminum or some kind of alloy.

[more photography]

[QUOTE=marschp;354264]I have the Arca Swiss F-Field with micrometric orbix, a 110 front standard and 141 rear standard.

Hi Paul

Is there any advantage other than weight to having the 110 front std, does this affect movement, tilting etc..

Did you order this way, or did pay the 100 front std afterwards.

[evan clarke]

[QUOTE=marschp;354264]I have the Arca Swiss F-Field with micrometric orbix, a 110 front standard and 141 rear standard.

Hi Paul

Is there any advantage other than weight to having the 110 front std, does this affect movement, tilting etc..

Did you order this way, or did pay the 100 front std afterwards.

The disadvantage of the 110 front is that you can't use any of the lensboard and adapter accessories that you can on the 141. I have cameras with Linhof boards and have lenses mounted in them. I can use a Linhof adapter on my 141 to use these lenses...EC

[Blumine]

[QUOTE=more photography;354917]

The disadvantage of the 110 front is that you can't use any of the lensboard and adapter accessories that you can on the 141. I have cameras with Linhof boards and have lenses mounted in them. I can use a Linhof adapter on my 141 to use these lenses...EC

Arca doesnt make an linhof-110 adapter board, but SK Grimes does. I just ordered this camera and most of my lenses are on linhof boards. The cost to covert everything to Arca boards was prohibitive, to say the least. The SKGrimes adapater proved to be the solution, or should I say I hope it will.

Blumine

[evan clarke]

Hi Blumine, Could you post a picture when you get yours?...EC

[marschp]

Paul your photos are fantastice.

One question - which I don't even Robert White did not know, what is the amteral the Arca made from , steel, Alumuminum or some kind of alloy.

Not too sure - I suspect some kind of alloy. I can send you the ARCA Swiss PDF if you would like - its 7.7Mb in size.

Regards the 110 front standard. I think you lose out on the use of the Linhof adapter panel, although I see another post saying there is one available for the 110 panel - I'd like to see a picture of this because if it involves shifting the lens forward relative to the Orbix unit then that would reduce the effectiveness of the Orbix mechanism to some degree (because it would shift the lens forward, and off axis, therefore meaning that the lens was no longer rotating about its axis). Also, the smaller frame size means its more difficult to get you fingers in to the exposure controls compared to the larger frame. The lens panel on an ARCA is effectively recessed by about 15mm as the board is set at the rear of the frame, so there are two vertical flanges either side of the lens panel. Its not abig deal, but does present an added difficulty when using large shutters or recessed lens panels (for WA lenses).

I'm not sure if you lose any rise or fall by using the 110 over the 141 front, but maybe someone else can answer that.

On the positive side, the 110 weighs a bit less, is smaller, and allows use of the standard bellows (071031) which gives approx 38cm of extension.

Cheers

Paul

[evan clarke]

Here's a picture of my 141 next to my 171...EC

[Blumine]

Hi Blumine, Could you post a picture when you get yours?...EC

Happy to do so, it will probably be next week or so before it all arrives. The adapter isnt cheaper, $195, but its better than changing 10 lens boards at 80 bucks a pop.

Blumine

[evan clarke]

Happy to do so, it will probably be next week or so before it all arrives. The adapter isnt cheaper, $195, but its better than changing 10 lens boards at 80 bucks a pop.

Blumine

Great, My neighbor and photography buddy uses a 6x9 Arca and a 4x5 Technika so his lenses are fragmented. It would be a great addition to his kit. The Technika boards are a little smaller too....Evan

[darr]

Happy to do so, it will probably be next week or so before it all arrives. The adapter isnt cheaper, $195, but its better than changing 10 lens boards at 80 bucks a pop.

Blumine

You forgot to add in the $65 for the Arca lens board you need to send SK Grimes as well. At least that is what I paid for it when I had them do it over a year ago. It is a solid board when completed, with a bit added on the top for the slider to hold the Linhof board intact.

13263 13264
13265 13266

--
Best,
Darr

[Blumine]

You forgot to add in the $65 for the Arca lens board you need to send SK Grimes as well. At least that is what I paid for it when I had them do it over a year ago. It is a solid board when completed, with a bit added on the top for the slider to hold the Linhof board intact.

13263 13264
13265 13266

--
Best,
Darr


Actually they said they didnt need an Arca Board. Evidently they have made several of these recently and the board was not necessary as a result.

Regards,

Blumine

[Frank Petronio]

The SK Grimes method of lensboard attachment is better than the Arca-branded one. When I had an Arca their Technika adapter had a hair trigger that popped and dropped the board with a fraction of a millimeter movement... one of the only things they didn't get right and it bugged me to no end.

[Greg Miller]

I'm not sure if you lose any rise or fall by using the 110 over the 141 front, but maybe someone else can answer that.


You do lose a bit of rise with the 110 standard. For landscape work it would rarely be an issue (and for the cases where it is an issue you can always add some indirect rise by angling the rail up). For architecture work it would likely become a meaningful shortcoming.

[Ling Z]

You do lose a bit of rise with the 110 standard. For landscape work it would rarely be an issue (and for the cases where it is an issue you can always add some indirect rise by angling the rail up). For architecture work it would likely become a meaningful shortcoming.

Also, this could be a problem if you use a front standard with Orbix as the lens is decentered.

[evan clarke]

I'd buy the 141 every time....EC

[Mattg]

Also, this could be a problem if you use a front standard with Orbix as the lens is decentered.

Yes, but it's not a problem. I have a 6x9 which is 110 front and rear. The Orbix mechanism is made to work on only one centre so you must centre the front standard by using half of the available rise in order to get axial tilt. The tilt is centered on the marking on the standard for the rise scale.

It's not a problem because you don't really loose any rise as you can always compenste with fall on the back having set the camera up for neutral shift in the beginning (which is what you do if you think you might need front tilt).

It's only the combination of a 110 front and larger rear that causes a loss of rise and the 141 is much better in that regard than the 171.

Anyone have a 141 format conversion kit they'd like to get rid of?