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more photography
28-May-2008, 05:26
Hi

I have narrowed my choice into these two cameras, now mostly I will be shooting landscapes, I like the Asymmetrical movements of the Ebony and I also like the metal frame of the Linhof.

Please share your field experience with me, pros and cons on each.

Michael Nagl
28-May-2008, 05:56
Hi More,

I was working with a Technikardan one afternoon - rigidity struck me as modest, and little green plastic itsybitsies fell off the camera... nowhere nearly as well made as the 70s Linhofs... It folds up relatively compact and thats great when you´re the guy that gets his camera out of it´s aluminium case after arriving in the studio, whereas for the field, a camera that needs to disassembled down to the bellows each time sounds less convincing.
On the Ebony I can´t comment, but on assymetrical movements (had them on the P1), the use of which is beyond me, since the middle of the picture still does most logically seem to be the ideal place for the axis, what else?

regards,
M

Don Dudenbostel
28-May-2008, 06:29
I can't say about the ocnstruction of the current Linhof cameras but my Master Technika that I used for 30 years was a tank and my technika 70 that I owned prior to the master was equally as fine. I haven't even seen a current production Linhof but recently pruchased an Ebony SV45Te and could not be happier with a wooden view. I used Deardorff 8x10's for 35 years and love them and still own one but the Ebony take wood to a higher level. Construction, design, function and quality materials are the equal of the generation of Linhof's that I've grown to love. I don't know about the asymetrical movements but i can say the quality of Ebony cameras is tops.

Brian Ellis
28-May-2008, 07:57
Strange that you'd narrow the field down to these two cameras since they're such totally different cameras. But there are two very detailed reviews of the Technikardan in the camera review section of this forum, one from someone who liked his a lot (Paul Butzi) and one from someone who didn't (me).

In addition to the Technikardan I've owned two Ebonys (SVTi and SVTe). Neither was as firm, solid, precise, well made, or as pleasurable to use for me as the Linhof Technika V I had been using (sorry Don) and I found the three-wheel focusing system a pain to use with some lenses. So I sold them and bought a Linhof Master Technika. If you like a metal camera, as I do, the Technika models are much more comparable to the Ebony you're considering than the Technikardan.

timparkin
28-May-2008, 08:57
Hi MRF,

I'm an Ebony 45SU user and I have used a linhof previously (but only during a workshop).

The main pluses for the linhof are rigidity at long extensions, nice control over tilt, shift etc., compact once folded, nice bellows. The negatives I noticed were the way it folds (although I couldn't see that this should be a big factor), the size (it is bigger than a collapsed 45su by my reckoning).

The 45su's advantages are asymmetric tilt (which I have to say is something I really, really like, although I'm sure I could cope with centre tilt), beauty (it's a wonderfully built beast), ease of setup. The disadvantages are, instability at long extension, variable stiffness on the focussng levers, movement when locking down swing.

Overall, if I were to buy again, I'd get the Ebony mainly for ease of setup and asymettric tilt. I wouldn't get a stock 45SU though. I'd get a modified 45SU with the rear swing and shift disabled to save about 1lb and some stability..

If I were after the technically better camera, the Linhof would probably the one but with beauty and ease of use taken into account, the Ebony wins..

Tim

Frank Petronio
28-May-2008, 09:15
At your price range you should consider an Arca Swiss -- they fold down compactly too, albeit not in the same way. The regular Linhof Technika is pretty nice too -- both would be more robust than either of the above.

Ben Chase
28-May-2008, 10:17
I've been using my Linhof TK45s now for about a year or so and while it has worked well, I recently had an opportunity to look at and try the Arca Swiss field with micrometrix, and honestly I think the Arca Swiss beats the TK.

As a result, at some point I will likely move to the Arca, although both are very good cameras, so I don't think you would go wrong with a TK, but if you have the opportunity to compare a TK and an Arca Swiss (preferably the Field), you should do it.

timparkin
28-May-2008, 10:57
Hmm... I must admit the Arca Swiss would be a camera I would have to look seriously at. When I was buying I hadn't considered it but since then the more I've learnt the more I've realised what a good camera tthey make..

Tough decision..

Tim

Robert Fisher
28-May-2008, 11:21
Having owned both a 45SU Ebony and a 45 Orbix Metric Arca, IMO both are simply outstanding with their own respective advantages.

However due to the ease of transport and setup, I would choose an Ebony (plus they are simply beautiful).

Ling Z
28-May-2008, 11:25
I have used Ebony SV45U2, 45SU, Linhof MT and Arca F-Metric. If you can stand limited movements, get a Linhof Master Technika. Otherwise, go for an Arca Swiss Field with micrometric orbix which is the most versatile camera IMHO.

Don Dudenbostel
28-May-2008, 12:28
No question the Master Technika is an outstanding machine. I used my camera for commercial work when I didn't need movements to the degree of my Sinar. The main disadvantage is the limited movements and ballows draw. Even though the M Technika has improved wide angle movements withe the flip up flap on the body it still is very limited in the wide department and due to limited bellows length it's can't accomidate long non tele glass. I never used much shorter then my 90 SA 5.6 and longer than my 360 Tele Arton. For mid range lenses and moderate movements it's tops.

On my Ebony I use a 72mm SA XL up to my 500mm Nikkor T tele set. I also use my 300 Nikkor M at moderate close distances with no issues with stability.

There's no perfect camera, atleast one that i've seen over the past 40+ years. It's all in what pleases you and your expectations and style of shooting. I still have and use my Sinar Norma and 8x10 Deardorff. In the studio the Sinar wins IMO and I don't think I could ever part with it. In the field for my personal work I like the Ebony 4x5 and also the 5x7 Canham wood that I purchased this year. All are superb in their own way and what bothers one person won't bother another. Some folks hate the lever locks on the Canham wood and others including myself love the levers. Thinking back to the early 60's when I got into 4x5 and LF I don't remember a camera that didn't have atleast a few good features. Even the old Calumet / Kodak / Orbit 4x5's of the 60's were great in their own way.

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28-May-2008, 12:34
Hi MRF,

I'm an Ebony 45SU user and I have used a linhof previously (but only during a workshop).

The main pluses for the linhof are rigidity at long extensions, nice control over tilt, shift etc., compact once folded, nice bellows. The negatives I noticed were the way it folds (although I couldn't see that this should be a big factor), the size (it is bigger than a collapsed 45su by my reckoning).

The 45su's advantages are asymmetric tilt (which I have to say is something I really, really like, although I'm sure I could cope with centre tilt), beauty (it's a wonderfully built beast), ease of setup. The disadvantages are, instability at long extension, variable stiffness on the focussng levers, movement when locking down swing.

Overall, if I were to buy again, I'd get the Ebony mainly for ease of setup and asymettric tilt. I wouldn't get a stock 45SU though. I'd get a modified 45SU with the rear swing and shift disabled to save about 1lb and some stability..

If I were after the technically better camera, the Linhof would probably the one but with beauty and ease of use taken into account, the Ebony wins..

Tim


Hi Tim

Considering you love the asymmetric tilt which is why it is on my list, why would you want to modify back, only to loose the back tilt flexibility.

Regards

more photography
28-May-2008, 12:36
I have used Ebony SV45U2, 45SU, Linhof MT and Arca F-Metric. If you can stand limited movements, get a Linhof Master Technika. Otherwise, go for an Arca Swiss Field with micrometric orbix which is the most versatile camera IMHO.


I have not considered Arca, but will do so. I think as I recall they are even more expensive

JimL
28-May-2008, 13:12
The TK45 (or 45S) is great for wide angle use, and with the bag bellows, allows complete freedom of shift even at minimum extension. At the other end of the scale, there's also enough extension to accommodate a lens like the Fuji C 450mm. It sounds like Michael Nagl only used the TK once, and contrary to what he says, there is no disassembly required when packing the camera up. It sits folded in my pack with the bellows and any of my lenses attached. I can get it out of the pack, onto the tripod and set up, ready to focus, in about 20-30 seconds. I can do this pretty much by feel now that I'm very used to the camera - the zero detents on the 45S make the set up fast. The Technikardan is a precision device, and the construction of the essential parts is of typical Linhof quality, except, as Michael points out, the colored plastic lever ends can fall off.

Some of the cons I've found: I've occasionally forgotten to tighten the front standard shift or reset the tilt, so it helps to develop some rigor in your approach to the camera, as there are quite a few levers to operate in set up and break down. Yes, it's probably not the most rigid camera out there, and I wouldn't want to use it with heavy lenses at long extension without supplementary support (a 480mm Apo Ronar in a Copal 3, for example). The L-standard design is inherently a little more flexible than standards supported on both sides, but in practice I don't find it a problem. Some people report problems with the folding (Brian has been quite vocal about this), but I find it really quite simple once I understood the concept. It's an unusual design, so it may not be intuitive right away.

Jim

Bob Salomon
28-May-2008, 13:33
"Even though the M Technika has improved wide angle movements withe the flip up flap on the body it still is very limited in the wide department "

How? The Master Technika 2000 and the current 3000 handle wide angle lenses down to 35mm on flat boards or boards with a short extension on them, depending on focal length!

more photography
28-May-2008, 13:45
I have used Ebony SV45U2, 45SU, Linhof MT and Arca F-Metric. If you can stand limited movements, get a Linhof Master Technika. Otherwise, go for an Arca Swiss Field with micrometric orbix which is the most versatile camera IMHO.


Hi
I have been browsing the web for some information on Arca Swiss F metric orbix, could you tell me what is orbix and what movement is that. ALso is the arca base or centre tilt.
do you have an electronic manual ?

Regards

Ling Z
28-May-2008, 13:51
"Even though the M Technika has improved wide angle movements withe the flip up flap on the body it still is very limited in the wide department "

How? The Master Technika 2000 and the current 3000 handle wide angle lenses down to 35mm on flat boards or boards with a short extension on them, depending on focal length!


Though I cannot make comments on MT3000, I do have a Linhof MT Classic and an MT2000. Making movements is virtually impossible when using wide angle lenses with a focal length less than 65mm. The front standard has to be pushed back into the camera body, and even 10mm rise is hard to achieve.

Ling Z
28-May-2008, 13:54
Hi
I have been browsing the web for some information on Arca Swiss F metric orbix, could you tell me what is orbix and what movement is that. ALso is the arca base or centre tilt.
do you have an electronic manual ?

Regards

Hi,

You can find more Arca info on http://www.precisioncameraworks.com/Pages/arca_core.html.

Ling

more photography
28-May-2008, 14:21
HI Thanks

I have just downloaded their PDF, but not very clear about movements - I rather hear it from an owner point of view in plain english.

I guess I have to find and visit a dealer

Brian Sims
28-May-2008, 15:57
I've been backpacking with the Technikardan for a couple of years. It is a beautiful camera for field work--accomodating lenses from 65mm to 450mm with the regular bellows. The range of camera movements will never be a limiting factor to your work. There are two disadvantages: 1. folding the camera takes some practice. 2. once folded the bellows are still vulnerable to damage. Here's how I solved both of those problems.

1. Folding the camera without damaging the bellows. I bought a used camera with badly damaged bellows. I removed the lensboard and the camera back and practiced folding the camera while watching what was happening to the old, beat up bellows. I didn't have to worry about screwing up a new set of bellows, so I was able to experiment and practice. By the time I put the new bellows on, folding the camera without crimping the bellows was second nature.

2. Protecting the bellows. I build this box out of lightweight, but tough spruce. Once screwed into the box, I can toss it into my backpack and not worry. I can sit on it, drop it in the dirt...and the camera is safe. The box adds about a pound and a half of weight, but the security is well worth it.

13022

butterfly
29-May-2008, 04:58
I have an Ebony 45SU, and have used it extensively for 3 years, in all weathers and conditions. I am a perfectionist and I can say hand on heart I simply cannot fault the camera. Beautiful to look at, quick to set up and use. I have no problems with rigidity at any extension. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. The asymetrical feature really is excellent.

timparkin
29-May-2008, 05:54
Hi Tim

Considering you love the asymmetric tilt which is why it is on my list, why would you want to modify back, only to loose the back tilt flexibility.

Regards


Hi,

I wouldn't want to lose the tilt or rise/fall. I'd just get rid of the shift and swing. But if you're not worried about an extra 3/4 lb then go for both of them :-) I've never really used the asymettric swing (I've done swing by eye as it's nearly always in combination with tilt as a compound movement).

Tim

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29-May-2008, 05:57
ok called robert white in the uk, and essentially orbix adds axial tilt to the front std. Back tilt is base tilt.

Some say this is an innvoation, how? when most large formats are centre axial tilt. I know the Arca is a top solid camera, this is not the question. Where is the benefits?

timparkin
29-May-2008, 05:58
ok called robert white in the uk, and essentially orbix adds axial tilt to the front std. Back tilt is base tilt.

Some say this is an innvoation, how? when most large formats are centre axial tilt. I know the Arca is a top solid camera, this is not the question. Where is the benefits?

The innovation is that you get axial tilt without having standards rising either side (as far as I can tell).

Tim