toyo recessed board: going from 0 to 1...

[rippo]

hey all. i've got a recessed board for my toyo view C. it's currently drilled for a copal 0, but the metal is also scored around the opening for a copal 1 size. i need the larger size so i can try all sort of wacky experiments with process and enlarger lenses. any idea how i can punch this ring of metal out so i can use the larger size hole? using Ordinary-Guy tools, not I-Hide-a-Machine-Shop-In-My-Garage-Guy tools. :)

[Ralph Barker]

I don't think that little groove is actually intended for punching out with ordinary-guy tools. You might try a half-round metal file, mixed with a large dose of patience. Otherwise, it's machine shop or at least a hole saw in a drill press with a centering/hold-down jig, I'm afraid.

One other alternative is a metal hole punch used for making holes in metal electronics chassis. They aren't particularly cheap in these sizes, but the only tool required is a regular-guy wrench.

[Nick_3536]

I don't think it's scored really. That's so the shutter fits right. If that area hadn't been reliefed I bet the board would be too thick.

You need recessed board for process lenses? Considering the cost of a recessed board wouldn't it make more sense to hack a flat board?

[rippo]

Ralph: Rats. I was hoping you'd tell me a stout screw driver and a mallet would be enough to knock it loose. :)

Nick: it's definitely a groove, so it should have no bearing on whether the shutter seats properly or not.

The process lenses I have in mind are all short focal lengths, and would likely get used with a roll film back (or, with vignetting, on 4x5). I do need the recessed board, otherwise I would run into bellows restrictions. Lenses are anywhere from 50mm to 127mm. Some need it, some don't. But the recessed board was extremely cheap.

So looks like I'll have to take it somewhere? Rats.

[lenser]

Hi, Rippo.

You might check out used boards at KEH.com or on ebay. A trip to a machine shop can be very expensive (but that's you only good alternative). You might find a good used one at a much cheaper price.

Tim

[rippo]

thanks Tim. every recessed board i've come across on ebay has been sized for copal 0. i see others that have this same scored ring around the opening as well, but haven't yet seen any for copal 1. i can keep looking i guess, but it seems a shame not to use the one i have. but yes i don't want to spend tons of money on it.

[BOB BERESFORD]

The holesaw followed by a half-round file works. Or you can drill out a start hole - then use a jigsaw. Or just drill all around the circle with a small bit - then knock it out...finishing off with the file and or sandpaper. I have just drilled out one of mine ( holesaw wasn't big enough ) then epoxied on a front panel from a dead technika . So now I've got a recessed Technica adapter board.....which Toyo don't make...and i can focus a 65 and 58 XL schneider ( great lens ) no problem. So I'm having a resurgence of faith in my 45 G's. more customising planned. There used to be an add for Toyo tyres in Australia - but obviously thought of in Japan - " if you want Toyo performance, you must fit Toyo ! " Am now applying that motto to my photos. Will see what happens.

Keep experimenting Rippo - and others - surprising what can develop ( pardon the bad pun ).

[BOB BERESFORD]

The holesaw followed by a half-round file works. Or you can drill out a start hole - then use a jigsaw. Or just drill all around the circle with a small bit - then knock it out...finishing off with the file and or sandpaper. I have just drilled out one of mine ( holesaw wasn't big enough ) then epoxied on a front panel from a dead technika . So now I've got a recessed Technica adapter board.....which Toyo don't make...and i can focus a 65 and 58 XL schneider ( great lens ) no problem. So I'm having a resurgence of faith in my 45 G's. more customising planned. There used to be an add for Toyo tyres in Australia - but obviously thought of in Japan - " if you want Toyo performance, you must fit Toyo ! " Am now applying that motto to my photos. Will see what happens.

Keep experimenting Rippo - and others - surprising what can develop ( pardon the bad pun ).

[Bob Salomon]

Why not just go to Samy's and have them do it properly for you?

[ic-racer]

I have had good results with a Dremel on both aluminum and wood lensboards. After you enlarge the lens hole, then you can keep the Dremel for future projects :)

A bit like this grinds off aluminum pretty easily.

[rippo]

Bob B: is this a special hole saw for metal? the only ones i have are for wood. i'm not sure which would win, the lensboard or the hole saw. :) with that groove it would be self-guilding though...i could probably stand to lose a hole saw if it got me the hole i wanted.

Bob S: Er...Samy's can drill a hole in my lensboard for me? Really? I have a Samy's about a half an hour away.

[rippo]

You dremel people think everything can be solved with a dremel, don't you? :)

I might have to investigate that, thanks! Hardly fits the 'ordinary guy tools' goal I had though.


I have had good results with a Dremel on both aluminum and wood lensboards. After you enlarge the lens hole, then you can keep the Dremel for future projects :)

A bit like this grinds off aluminum pretty easily.

[BOB BERESFORD]

Mat Rippo
The dremmel looks nice for finishing the hole or even widening, but for what you want the holesaw is the best way to do most of it. But then you need a drillpress. I have a full set of holesaws, and usually adjust or make lensboards that way.....flat aluminium plus hole plus matt black paint ( plus more tweaks for technika boards ).....then finish with half round file. A machine shop or engineers will have all that and can do the hole rapidly. But to widen an existing hole the dremmel looks very practical. There are also cheap little grindstones on spindle that will fit into your electric drill....just be slower than the dremmel. Best choice for you ? make sure the new hole is well traced out first.

[BOB BERESFORD]

Note holesaws come as flexible sets for wood ( often budget DIY ) or as solid critters to cut most things. My quality set is Sutton - think that's American.

[rippo]

all i have are wood hole saws, which will probably not work on this. i'd hoped i had a size that fit, but no. and no real way to stabilize the board. but the size 0 hole is cut already, it just needs widening to the size 1, which is has a scored circle. probably going to need the dremel, but i haven't gotten around to it yet.

thanks very much for your suggestions, bob!

[BOB BERESFORD]

Why not just go to Samy's and have them do it properly for you?

Even in USA, most people won't be near a Samy's and unless they have laser cutters or a drill press, an ordinary machine shop can do it better..... and no doubt for less. But DIY is easy enough. You just need the locking ring as the reference point for the hole.

[Robert A. Zeichner]

Having done a lot of machine shop work and also having tried to do things like this with ordinary hand tools, I think the risk of damaging what you have is too great to attempt this with hole saws or chassis punches. The problem with those tools is that they require a pilot hole on the order of 1/4" to 3/8" to center them properly. If you attempt to use a hole saw to enlarge an already big hole as is the case with your lens board, you will most likely experience the tool walking all over the place. A chassis punch may be difficult to center. The cost of a punch will exceed the cost or either a new board or what a machine shop will charge you to do it right. The only other tool I can think of that would work is a nibbler. I have one of these and have successfully enlarged holes with it provided the material is aluminum and not too thick. A half round file will take care of smoothing. I think I got mine from Brookstone when they truly had hard to find tools and most were made here in the states.

[John Schneider]

If you have access to a stout drill press, a boring head is a great investment. Otherwise, a holesaw will give a really rough and out-of-round finish.

I'm always amazed at the number of people who don't know how to wield a file (or don't securely clamp the workpiece, or who use crappy/unsharp files etc.), and consequently downplay its abilities. My second choice after the boring head would be to file it, which wouldn't take any more time than the other methods start to finish. Buy a good aluminum-cutting half round file from a good industrial supplier (a local industrial hardware store, McMaster-Carr, MSC, etc.), mount the board in a vise, and it shouldn't take more than 10 mins to get a nice enlarged hole.

[BOB BERESFORD]

Good point from Robert - quality holesaws ( which machine shops have ) fit onto a central drillbit and there's no problem - you just secure the blank lensboard - but with a big hole already there you have to clamp it down more. I've done this both ways. ( The flexible DIY round blades will give more problems - designed for wood. )
Just don't have the hole too big, and expect to finish with a half round file. But in that case, you can first trace out the circle, then drill around it with lots of holes - knock it through - and then file. That's the cheap/easy DIY way.

[Bob Salomon]

He happens to be quite near a Samys store.