How do I attached my Mamiya 645 to a 4x5?

[AdamS]

I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL and I would like to have full tilt-shift capabilities for architectural subjects. Tift-shift lenses for the 645 are ridiculously expensive, and I will not buy one. If possible, I also would like the ability to shoot 4x5 at times, but with 120 being the primary format.

Can I (should I) find a way to connect my Mamiya 645 to a LF camera (I've seen a MF camera connected to the back of a LF camera, but didn't understand why it was done)?

Should I sell the Mamiya and buy a LF that can take MF backs?

Is there a better solution?

I'd like any solution to be under US $700.

[erie patsellis]

Adam,
I built a lensboard and revolving back for my Toyo that uses RB lenses to solve the same problem, plentiful, and inexpensive as well.


erie

[Bob Salomon]

All you need to do is buy a 6x9cm or 4x5 camera and add a roll film back. That will be much less complicated to operate then a Mamiya stuck onto the back of the view camera.

Also you are aware that the lenses that you currently own for the 645 will not work at infinity on a view camera. They would only work for macro on a view camera with a 645 camera on the back..

[Jeff Keller]

Your Mamiya lenses are unlikely to have a large enough image circle to do any tilt/shift so you will be buying large format lenses. There are a number of companies that make various adapters but you probably won't find any very flexible choices.

Trying to recall from my memory, Harblei, Zork, SRB(in the UK), and Horseman make some for different cameras.

As others have said, you will probably be best off using a view camera with a roll film back.

[Walter Calahan]

Get a roll film back for a 4x5. Cheaper and easier.

[lxdesign]

I have a quick question about the film holders.... If shooting medium format on a 4x5 view camera.... obviously the film is smaller, thus it will effectively be a crop? What do you do about focusing, etc with the camera?

Just curious.

[Turner Reich]

The setup you want is going to be a 4x5 view camera and lens designed for the work you want to do. Get a roll film back because the system you want to put together won't be able to cover the field and won't allow for movements. It might sound good on paper but in reality the optics aren't there.

[AdamS]

I have a quick question about the film holders.... If shooting medium format on a 4x5 view camera.... obviously the film is smaller, thus it will effectively be a crop? What do you do about focusing, etc with the camera?

Just curious.

AdamS: I am not 100% sure, but I believe the answer is "yes", it would be cropped. Therefore, others have told me that I would want to go wide angle. In order to focus, special marks (showing 645, 6x7, etc) would be placed on the normal view screen, so that when the roll film back is inserted, you know wher it will be framed.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[bbjorkum]

Buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Moveable-Adapter-For-Mamiya-645-To-Linhof-Sinar-4x5_W0QQitemZ310051612790QQihZ021QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

In this way you can focus and shoot almost immediately, as you will benefit from your Mamiya's shutter.

[cowanw]

I have a similar Cambo to Hasselblad adaptor. The body and back and viewfinder go on and the bellows and large format lens are in front. Focus and metering are through the 90 degree viewfinder. The mamiya adaptor looks similar.
Regards
Bill

[Darryl Baird]

Your biggest hurdle is to find a lens that will deliver the images onto the small 6x4.5 film size. (Followed by having a usuable image on the Mamiya because of the depth from camera mount to the film plane. The camera body adaptors don't work for wide angle work, only normal to telephoto.) If you are shooting interiors or fairly large/tall buildings the focal length will need to be very short, 35 - 50mm. There aren't a lot of used lens in that range, 47mm Super-Angulon comes to mind. The more modern WA optics will blow that budget in a jiffy. Better move up to 6x7 and/or 6x9 and get a 58-75 mm lens... lots more choices and much better prices. I shoot a 4x5 with 6x7 and 6x9 Horseman backs, using 65mm Nikkor and 90mm Nikkor and like the combination of focal length and film format.... for architecture or landscapes.

For $700 you could get a cheap monorail, bag bellows, and a back or two, but I think the lens will still set you back between $300-800 alone.

AT KEH there are a few options:
lenses - http://tinyurl.com/3mvunr
monorail with bag bellows - http://tinyurl.com/4el62p
back - http://tinyurl.com/53vfoq


I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL and I would like to have full tilt-shift capabilities for architectural subjects. Tift-shift lenses for the 645 are ridiculously expensive, and I will not buy one. If possible, I also would like the ability to shoot 4x5 at times, but with 120 being the primary format.

Can I (should I) find a way to connect my Mamiya 645 to a LF camera (I've seen a MF camera connected to the back of a LF camera, but didn't understand why it was done)?

Should I sell the Mamiya and buy a LF that can take MF backs?

Is there a better solution?

I'd like any solution to be under US $700.

[Frank Petronio]

You'll find it less expensive and higher quality to simply get an inexpensive monorail 4x5 with a good vintage 90mm lens as an outfit starting at about $500 -- not to hard to find on eBay -- and either use 4x5 film or a medium format back that would make a 6x7 or 6x9 image (twice your 6x4.5 size). Of course you can spend much much more but you should be able to put something together for a reasonable cost if you do your homework...

[Clueless Winddancing]

Stop the presses! It has been done, documented, and instructions are readily available. I am supposed to be working right now so I will get the specifics back to you ASAP; but, for now ...Shutterbug, David Brooke, piggy backing, Jan 93 maybe.
He liked it for portraits; but, ( he makes money writing articles with broad appeal).
Your responses have been interesting and notable so far. The out of pocket cost was very, very little. Give me real addresses that will accept attachments and I will send copy tonight/ I've not uploaded so unless someone want to help out I don't know a better way.

[erie patsellis]

maybe this?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/epatsellis/DSCF7015.jpg


gives you the option of using either the RB lenses or view camera lenses, cheap as it gets...

erie

[Clueless Winddancing]

I have sent the images and instructions to Ian M.

David Brooke said that he used it to shoot products quickly on roll film and with various SF lenses. It was Shutter Bug '93

[David E. Rose]

I have a Mamiya 645 and their 50mm shift lens. I bought the lens used for around $500 from KEH. It is very sharp. It is also light and convenient, unlike the view camera/645 combos. There is a 50mm shift on Ebay now for more than $500, but still under your budget:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-645-50mm-f-4-SHIFT-LENS-SHIFT-MAMIYA-LENS_W0QQitemZ360054049141QQihZ023QQcategoryZ3352QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hartblei also make 3 shift lenses that can be had in a Mamiya 645 mount. I believe they run less than your budget as well. I own two of them. Not as sharp as the Mamiya glass, but workable.

If you just want to add shift capability to your 645 system, I think that these lenses are the logical choice. If you want to really explore camera movements, buy a view camera and everything that goes along with it.

[David E. Rose]

Here is the 55mm Hartblei on Ebay for $319 new:

http://cgi.ebay.com/for-Mamiya-645-AF-AFD-ZD-ARSAT-55mm-f-4-5-shift-Lens_W0QQitemZ170203852647QQihZ007QQcategoryZ30070QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

[scott russell]

Buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Moveable-Adapter-For-Mamiya-645-To-Linhof-Sinar-4x5_W0QQitemZ310051612790QQihZ021QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

In this way you can focus and shoot almost immediately, as you will benefit from your Mamiya's shutter.

Do they make one of these for the Pentax 6x7?

[Marko]

Erie, that setup looks interesting! Would you mind sharing some details?

[Clueless Winddancing]

Intimations of a solution.

[erie patsellis]

Erie, that setup looks interesting! Would you mind sharing some details?

The toyo 45 E,F & G (possibly others as well) share the same lensboard and back dimensions, similar to the Sinar/Horseman approach, it's totally modular. I took a junk Toyo lensboard with an oversized hole in it, cut out a square and mounted a revolving back off of an Ebay parts RB, took the front lens mount off of same camera and mounted it to a Toyo Lensboard, fabricating a little lever to cock the lens, (more info on the lensboard on my website), what you end up with is a RB view camera, you can use RB lenses, LF lenses, 4x5 back or RB/Graflex backs. Total cost was about $40 and a few hours time. The 50 and 65 don't cover 4x5, the 90 does, though soft in the corners and the 150SF makes an awfully nice soft focus lens on 4x5, though short for portraits.

The one nice thing is with the long register of the RB, you have almost 4" to fit everything into, more than enough for conventional bellows, unless you're making extreme movements.

erie

[BOB BERESFORD]

All you need to do is buy a 6x9cm or 4x5 camera and add a roll film back. That will be much less complicated to operate then a Mamiya stuck onto the back of the view camera.

Also you are aware that the lenses that you currently own for the 645 will not work at infinity on a view camera. They would only work for macro on a view camera with a 645 camera on the back..

It's very easy to combine formats - medium to large - and the MF camera on the back of a view camera is much less complicated than using a ground glass, hood etc. The format size is smaller - only disadvantage. Having 2 shutter operating possibilities plus auto wind is better. To use the shutter in the LF lens - with its high sync - you can lock up the mirror in the Mamiya - or not - and use Bulb. So you're working with 2 cable releases.

The Mamiya 645 lenses will work at infinity on a Sinar F ( and probably on some other cameras if you customised ) but it's pointless because they will normally only cover 645 and you'd have to use a cap over the lens as a shutter.

However, they will definitely work for Macro on a View camera - even with a 6 x 12 back etc ....in fact a 35mm macro lens will do so as well because as the lens moves away from the plane - in close focus - it projects a bigger image circle.

Surprised Bob didn't realise that. He's distributing the excellent but expensive Rodenstock Macro lenses, but you can do LF macro on the cheap with all sorts, incl enlarger lenses - which are corrected for close focus. As long as you can mount them to a lensboard somehow - various options.

Your main aim is to get the mamiya on the back and use fairly wide lenses to shift ?

So best option is the Sinar F - F2 with wide bellows. You can mount a lensboard on the back and then epoxy a Mamiya ext tube etc to it. For the front, best to get a Linhof adapter board so you can keep your lenses on small boards. You'll never look back and soon be buying used roll backs as well.

Personally I've done a similar setup for Pentax 6 x 7 on a Toyo mono and it's perhaps a bit more versatile and cheaper. But you can do the same on your setup. Pentax 6 x 7 ext tubes are cheap.

My current project is getting a Mamiya Pro SD onto the back of the Toyo...involves customising the small pro SD ext tube. These cameras shoot motorised 6 x 8 backs. But will only be good for LF lenses of 210 or above ( 150mm on the F ? )....or Macro.

Actually I'm also customising a Toyo rear standard so I can get lens and film as close as on the Sinar F. Will lose rear tilt, but setup will be stronger. Another option - toyos are cheap to get and have an excellent Linhof adapter board.

[BOB BERESFORD]

Do they make one of these for the Pentax 6x7?

Very Interesting !..........though the lateral shift option will usually be unnecessary.

And that Sinar F-2 would do it all better - shiftwise.

Note that adapter will fit into any Grafflok back as long as it has grooves in it.

Quite easy to make - with plywood or a dead double dark, an extension ring and lots of epoxy. Try cutting a suitable hole through it first ? Then you can attach about any MF camera to any 4 x 5 .

But with modular cameras like Toyo and Sinar you can - Scott - just epoxy a Pentax 6 x 7 number 1 ring to a lensboard and you're away. ( what I prefer - but I do also have the other system ). Thing to watch is the lens to film distance. Sinar F is naturally close. customising a rear standard for a Toyo ( they swap easily ) is another option to get close as the Sinar.

[BOB BERESFORD]

An especial congrats to Erie for making a trigger device to release the RB lens shutters.
Had given up on the idea myself - of remounting those lenses - because of the difficulty of cocking and releasing......quite a bit of force involved. Won't be much latitude on 6 x 7 , but you could fit an RB 645 back and move things a lot. But how to focus it ? Mamiya had a groundglass but I think that's for Pro SD and / or RZ ?

[erie patsellis]

Bob, you give me too much credit, I didn't build one from scratch, go to http://www.eriepatsellis.com/rb_info/lensboard1.html and you will see how easy it is, in fact.


erie

[BOB BERESFORD]

Hi Erie an innovation to be explored further....will have to dissmember an RB now to see exactly how you did it....then glue to a Toyo lensboard. Epoxy comes in black and grey - or you can paint after - and it secures most things.
Using this system on a (Toyo) mono with a 6 x 8 or 6 x 9 back ( no shift ) is also practical. The RB lenses all cover at least 6 x 8 . Got some really good KL ones. The lens-film distance of RB will be convenient on a view camera.

Bob

[erie patsellis]

bob, go to my website at http://www.eriepatsellis.com/rb_info/lensboard1.html and it's fairly well documented. I'd avoid gluing, as you need some clearance for the cocking lever.

erie

[Kirk Gittings]

Trouble is guys he wants to shoot ARCHITECTURE which will require wide lenses with lots of coverage. He will need lenses as wide as a 20-28 on 35 or 75-90 on a 4x5. That translates to what? 18-35 lenses with lots of coverage or something on 645? Most of these ideas mentioned above are simply not viable solutions for shooting architecture with appropriate wide angle lenses. It is very complex/expensive problem which is why so few truly wide shift lenses are made for medium format. Get a cheap 4x5 that will handle wide lenses and use 6x9 Calumet roll film holders. I did all my commercial work that way for many years with an old Calumet Widefield which cost me $150 and will take a 47 with full movements on a flat lens board through a 180 (210 with an extension lens board).

[erie patsellis]

Pretty much my approach, as stated earlier, roll film back on a 4x5 is simply the most cost effective and easiest way to shoot architecture. Not having any commercially available ones at hand, and having a ton of RB backs, I used the approach easiest for me (and most cost effective at the time)

erie

[Gene McCluney]

A roll film back for a 4x5 view camera is the best solution. The common older backs, such as those made by Graflex will work with any 4x5 camera with a Graflock back. Calumet (and others) made a roll film back that would slide in like a cut-film holder. These 120 size film backs came in different image sizes. (6x6, 6x7, 6x8) They all will "crop" in comparison to the image on the full 4x5 ground glass. You would need to make some marks on your ground glass to indicate the image area of the roll-film back you are using. With a roll-film back (they all have darkslides) you operate pretty much just like you do when shooting sheet film. You compose on the ground glass, set the lens, put the roll-film back in place of the ground glass, pull its darkslide and take your picture. Don't forget to advance the film after each shot. Don't forget to put the darkslide back in before you remove the back.

If and this is a big "IF" you adapt a medium-format SLR such as an RB-67 or a M645 to a view camera frame, and "IF" you are able to source a lens that would give you infinity focus, you are still limited in the amount of "shift" you can do, because of the mirror box on the SLR body, which will start getting in the way with only a moderate shift. With a "real" roll film back for the 4x5, you will have full use of all the movements capable of the camera.

[Eric Leppanen]

Here is another potential solution if you don't mind stitching:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/digital-ebony.shtml