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View Full Version : filters on a threadless lens? Gundlach Radar



Daniel_Buck
15-May-2008, 15:14
Hello! I have a Gundlach 12" Radar 8x10 that I just had CLA done on the Betax #5 shutter, and have it mounted on a board. I'm curious about using filters on this lens, since I shoot a relatively fast film (Tri-X 320) and the fastest shutterspeed on the shutter is 1/50th. I like the quality of blur that I see in out of focus areas in the image, so I'm planning on using this lens at f4.5 quite a bit on my 8x10. I'm guessing that I'm going to need an ND filter for times that there is just to much light. How would I go about doing that for a lens with no threads?

There are threads on the rear element, my 77mm filter is just slightly to small, so I assume the rear threads might be 78mm? I don't think I've ever seen filters in that size before.

Anyway, what's the best/easiest way do have an ND (or even a color filter) on a lens like this? The front element is roughly 80mm wide. If I had a square gel filter, I suppose I could just tape it (or hold it) up to the lens, I don't think I'd like to always do this though.

Any thoughts?



And on a side note, anyone know anything about this lens? Gundlach 12" Radar 8x10 I can take a few pictures of it if that would help anyone remember anything about the lens, like when they were manufactured? Just curious really :-)

lenser
15-May-2008, 15:32
Hi, Daniel.

Calumet has a gel filter holder (Xenophon) that can be mounted in front or behind the lens. It mounts to the board and should be the solution you need. There is also a clip on (spring mounted) holder with built in barn doors. It holds 3" gels. ND filters are available in gel form.

Cokin also has a mount that attaches by means of adjustable screws and their standard filter holder slides onto that. Then use whatever of their filters you want including polarizer, colored, ND, etc. This one is made for oversize diameter lenses or those without threads. I use mine for several different large format lenses.

Good luck.

Tim

John Schneider
15-May-2008, 15:42
S. K. Grimes makes a ring for just this purpose that is held in place by the friction of an o-ring:
http://www.skgrimes.com/slipon/index.htm

Daniel_Buck
15-May-2008, 15:52
looks like this might do the trick!

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/LE5002/

I don't quite see how the SK grimes ring works? I mean, I don't understand how it stays attached to the lens? Maybe I should read it over again later :-)

wfwhitaker
15-May-2008, 16:04
...And on a side note, anyone know anything about this lens? Gundlach 12" Radar 8x10 I can take a few pictures of it if that would help anyone remember anything about the lens, like when they were manufactured? Just curious really :-)

You can look at a Gundlach catalog at cameraeccentric.com. Info on the Radar is here (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/gundlachcat/radar1.html) and here (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/gundlachcat/radar2.html).

Daniel_Buck
15-May-2008, 16:28
Thanks Will! Yes, I found those two pages in my searching. Any idea when the lens was manufactured? Or what most people used it for? It's got plenty of coverage at infinity on 8x10, I plan on using it for closer up things though, and possibly portraits. Just curious, because my searching didn't bring up very many accounts of this lens.

wfwhitaker
15-May-2008, 18:24
Any idea when the lens was manufactured? Or what most people used it for?

My guess is that it's from the twenties. But I have little more information to go on than the Gundlach catalog pages. It was probably intended as a general purpose lens or a "commercial" lens, one which was flattering for portraits wide open, but reasonably sharp stopped down for commercial work. It was a studio lens. Its weight will tell you that much. Don't drop it on your foot!

The Lens Vademecum offers little about it, but does suggest that it's "essentially a Q15, but with a three-glass rear component." Q15 refers to the lens design diagram and is notably that of the Tessar. The implication, then, is that the Radar is basically a Tessar design. The three element rear cell may have been to avoid patent infringement. This last bit is speculation on my part, but this seems to be a fairly common modus operandi throughout the history of lens design. I have this same lens, also in a Betax. I've not yet had a chance to use it, but I look forward to doing so.

Atul Mohidekar
15-May-2008, 19:00
This is may be another option for threadless lenses - Cokin "P" Series Universal Adapter

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/14101-REG/Cokin_CP499__P_Series_Universal_Adapter.html


// Atul

Daniel_Buck
15-May-2008, 19:08
Thanks Will! I was guessing 1930's just from the look of it. I'm always curious about when things were manufactured, don't know why :-)

Atul, that looks perfect! I think I'll pick one of them up and see how it fits! It looks like it will just barely fit!

mikec
15-May-2008, 22:52
no one mentioned the lee gel snap which is available in 4x4. I was thinking about getting one for the same purpose. any reason not to?

IanG
15-May-2008, 23:44
Daniel, there's info on the Radar lens here. (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/gundlachcat/radar1.html)

I have the same 12" version, but I've not tried it yet, the Betax shutter was terrible, it had been oiled :D

The shutters now oil free, and works far better but can be a bit erratic. So I'll have it CLA'd properly.

Compared to my 12" Dagor of similar vintage it's very heavy, and large, make sure yours is securely fitted to the lens board, mine fell off when I put it on the camera (luckily onto a soft carpet) judging by the number of screw holes that had happened quite a few times before.

You need a very strong cable release for the Betax shutter, it takes a lot of effort to cock & trip the shutter !!!!

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the lens, and see some images.

Ian

Ole Tjugen
16-May-2008, 00:34
no one mentioned the lee gel snap which is available in 4x4. I was thinking about getting one for the same purpose. any reason not to?

No reason at all, just get one. I use mine all the time - on old brass lenses with non-standard threads, newer lenses which happen to have a different thread from anything I've got, dented filter rings, or whatever. everything, that is, except for the small (65mm, 90mm and 120mm) Angulons which just don't have any barrel to grip on.

Daniel_Buck
16-May-2008, 04:06
You need a very strong cable release for the Betax shutter, it takes a lot of effort to cock & trip the shutter !!!!
heh, yea I noticed that! I guess that's because the shutter is cocked and released at the same time?

David A. Goldfarb
16-May-2008, 05:07
I use two filter holders for my threadless and odd-sized lenses--a little Voss 3" filter holder that attaches with a spring clip and has two barn doors that cost me $15 used from keh.com, and a Lee Gel Snap for 4" filters. I can also use 4" filters on my Sinar filter holder and in the back of my Linhof compendium shade. For even bigger lenses, I'm usually using them on my Sinar, so I can use the Sinar filter holder, or I just figure out a way to tape or clip the filter to the lens.

Doremus Scudder
16-May-2008, 06:07
Can't help chiming in here:

I have a couple of strips of medical skin tape (the gauzy-looking stuff) taped to the clear plastic of my filter-carrying pouch. When I need to rear mount a filter, I just hang the next larger size filter off the rim of the rear lens element and secure it with the tape strips. The tape keeps its adhesive for a long time. One could carry a roll as well. (I would be extra careful with this if the camera were pointing up though...)

I use this technique sometimes with wide-angle lenses to avoid stacking filters in front of the lens and thereby vignetting.

Cheap and effective as well as low-tech...

Best,

Doremus Scudder

rwyoung
16-May-2008, 06:13
no one mentioned the lee gel snap which is available in 4x4. I was thinking about getting one for the same purpose. any reason not to?

I bought one to try with my odd assortment of lenses. So far it has worked great and has the added benefit of letting me more easily hang my 4" Packard shutter on the front of a brass lens and also on the front of some "experimental" lenses I made from PVC pipe and simple optical elements.

The gels on the other hand are quite fragile.

goamules
16-May-2008, 15:21
It must be the season of the Radar and Betax 5. I just got one too. Most of the below say it's a modified tessar. Mine also had clean glass, gummed shutter. Lighter fluid treatment seemed to get it working. It must weight 8 lbs! Feels like one solid chunk of glass.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=22789&highlight=radar
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/31972-gundlach-radar-anast-f4-5-10-x8-question.html

Garrett
http://www.flickr.com/photos/garrettsphotos/sets/72157601802735284/detail/

Dan Dozer
16-May-2008, 16:28
no one mentioned the lee gel snap which is available in 4x4. I was thinking about getting one for the same purpose. any reason not to?

I'm with everyone else - these system work very well for me with my older lenses. I also made a slip on/take apart barn door sun shade unit that fits right over the top of the Lee frame.

Dan

Mark Sawyer
16-May-2008, 16:58
Anyone know if the Lee Gel Snap will work with 4x4 glass filters? And what's the largest lens barrel it will fit? I've got some monsters...