New darkroom

[k_redder]

Hey Everybody,
One of my favorite things to do on this forum while I've been working on getting back into LF photography has been to scour the place for all the info that I could find on what people have done to design/build their home darkrooms. I especially enjoy seeing pictures of what people have done/are doing with there space. So, since my project is starting (some imagination still required) to look like something I thought I'd post a few pics of the space so far.
Like most projects, this one grew in scope right out of the box. Our house already had a walk-up attic to work from, but I figured that if I was going to run electric, plumbing, and heat/AC to anything upstairs, then I was going to do the whole upstairs. So in addition to the darkroom itself, there's the stairwell, hallway, closets and an office/workspace to finish off. So, it's basically like finishing another whole floor of our house.The other part of it is that if I can't do the work myself, I can't afford it. So it's taking a while (almost a year since I started). Juggling this project on top of everything else (work/wife/kids/house) has been tiring but it's also been a ton of fun, and the payoff in the end will be tremendous.
If anybody else has any pics of their darkroom project that they are dreaming up, building, or already built, I'd love to see them. Thanks everybody.
Kurt

[k_redder]

... and a couple more.

[Greg Lockrey]

I'd get arid of that window in the second picture unless you are going to do a lot of alternative contact printing. ;) ;) Seriously, it looks like you have a good start on a nice space.

[k_redder]

Hey Greg,
The room with the window is actually an office/workspace outside of the darkroom. If you can read the floorplan pdf, you'll see where I mean.

[Greg Lockrey]

Hey Greg,
The room with the window is actually an office/workspace outside of the darkroom. If you can read the floorplan pdf, you'll see where I mean.

Oh... you expect me to read? :D

[Deane Johnson]

I don't see any space for print washing equipment? Or, is it not necessary to worry about that with current materials. It's been a long time since I worked in the darkroom.

[matthew blais]

Looks great! Your efforts will be rewarded soon enough.

[k_redder]

I don't see any space for print washing equipment? Or, is it not necessary to worry about that with current materials. It's been a long time since I worked in the darkroom.

The wet side will have a sink (7 1/2FT) that is built on top of two base cabinets.
Should look something like this (attached) when it's done.

[Clay Turtle]

Looking at the pdf file I noted that the door opens into your work area which has the window? So if you are working with photographic material you may want to isolate the entrance. Some b&w labs use dark curtains over doorway facing a wall which forms a parallel hallway. Closing the end toward the light source (window) adding another curtained doorway near the adjacent wall in the corner, would form such a double blind rather than having to light seal the doorway & hope you never need to leave nor anyone enter the while working?
Either that or put the door at the other end leading into the storage room . . . .
PS Chemistry can be somewhat overwheling at times, have you included a bathroom tyoe vent fan & exhaust vent?

[k_redder]

Looking at the pdf file I noted that the door opens into your work area which has the window? So if you are working with photographic material you may want to isolate the entrance. Some b&w labs use dark curtains over doorway facing a wall which forms a parallel hallway. Closing the end toward the light source (window) adding another curtained doorway near the adjacent wall in the corner, would form such a double blind rather than having to light seal the doorway & hope you never need to leave nor anyone enter the while working?
Either that or put the door at the other end leading into the storage room . . . .
PS Chemistry can be somewhat overwheling at times, have you included a bathroom tyoe vent fan & exhaust vent?

I expect to have to take steps to light proof the door into the darkroom. That window faces to the east and only sees direct sunlight first thing in the a.m. (when these pics were taken) so what you are seeing is worst case.
As far as ventilation, the openings you see in the ceiling on the left side of this pic is for inlet air running through a baffle arrangement in the ceiling joists which will probably be go through a filter media as it enters the darkroom. The air is exhausted through the 2 openings inside the darkroom which are located directly above and behind the area where the sink will be located (second pic), through an in-line exhaust fan behind the wall. One of these: http://www.rewci.com/fafrincefan4.html
The nice thing about this fan is it is extremely quiet. I actually have to stand still and not breath just to hear if it's on.

[Eric Woodbury]

I think my drywall screws were every 8" in the field and 6" on the edges.

Sure looks like a nice space.

[Eric Woodbury]

Here's a couple of pix of my darkroom. It is 9' wide, 12' long, and 7.5' high. Main sink is 8' long. These were taken few years back and it looks about the same in there except the negs on the counter are deeper and there is a wash sink at the end of the other sink now. I've replaced most of the large safelights with a single string of LED Christmas lights. Pix are taken with a 58mm lens on 5x7.

[Merg Ross]

Kurt, that looks like a really nice space you have designed. Over the years I have built and worked in many darkrooms. One thing I learned along the way is that big is not necessarily better. Yours looks like a good size. I once had the opportunity to build a large darkroom and later regretted it. Too much time was spent moving about. My present darkroom is very compact (70 square feet) and perhaps the best yet. There were some pre existing conditions that limited a more expansive room. But with this one, everything is within arms reach or a few paces. The sink is "L" shaped resuting in a 10' length. Of course, just a little bigger would be nice! Have fun with your project and keep us updated.

[k_redder]

Here's a couple of pix of my darkroom. It is 9' wide, 12' long, and 7.5' high. Main sink is 8' long. These were taken few years back and it looks about the same in there except the negs on the counter are deeper and there is a wash sink at the end of the other sink now. I've replaced most of the large safelights with a single string of LED Christmas lights. Pix are taken with a 58mm lens on 5x7.

Eric,
Nice! I notice that you have quite a few white lights in your room (at least it looks like all the lights on tracks are white). Are these for inspection or do you do some other work in there that requires lots of white light. My darkroom itself is just 7'6" x 7'6" and I have one ceiling box from which I plan to put a track light with 2-4 heads for white light and 2 fixtures for safelights and I was starting to wonder if I may find myself wishing that I had allowed for more. So I thought I'd ask you (and everyone else) how much white light/safelight do you think is enough for a given size space? Thanks.

[k_redder]

Kurt, that looks like a really nice space you have designed. Over the years I have built and worked in many darkrooms. One thing I learned along the way is that big is not necessarily better. Yours looks like a good size. I once had the opportunity to build a large darkroom and later regretted it. Too much time was spent moving about. My present darkroom is very compact (70 square feet) and perhaps the best yet. There were some pre existing conditions that limited a more expansive room. But with this one, everything is within arms reach or a few paces. The sink is "L" shaped resuting in a 10' length. Of course, just a little bigger would be nice! Have fun with your project and keep us updated.

Merg,
At 56 sq ft, my room will definitely be cozy. I think my biggest challenge is going to be having enough space to store things. I will have about 12 ft of base cabinets, 5 ft of wall cabinets, and maybe a few little shelves wherever I can find a spot for them. The angled ceiling over the sink area really cuts down on available space for more cabinets or shelves. Like you said, there are pre-existing conditions that dictate all kinds of stuff. The whole process is a long series of compromises. You just make decisions as best you can and hope that you end up with a space that you can work in.

[Merg Ross]

Kurt, your space is 20% smaller that mine , if my math is correct. For general illumination I have two 100W hanging fixtures, plus two safelights and a 40W over the sink for inspecting prints. For inspecting negatives (after fixing) a 5x7 white light is over the sink with a 25W bulb and an additional safelight over the printing area. There are different opinions as to wall color, I have always used white with black around the printing area. Some of what I have described may be visible in the photos which I attached.

[Eric Woodbury]

Kurt, with my slightly short ceilings, I didn't have much room for light fixtures to hang down. I like a bright room w/o total shadows and the track lighting gives me this and allows the flexibility to set them up how I want. They are mostly 20W bulbs in the tracks. A couple 50W. For print inspection, you will notice a goose neck lamp over the long sink. It about the middle. I set a piece of white plexi against the shelves and can bring the print up out of the drink and stick to the plexi to view. The lamp turns on with a footswitch. These goose neck lamps are available through Grainger.

My previous darkroom was about 8 x 8' with a low ceiling. The sink just fit and I only had one enlarger. It could have been a little narrower and the 8' counter on one side was luxury. If you have a small darkroom, make small prints. Now, I can make 16x20 comfortably, but I don't much. It is nice to have a little extra room in case I have guests. My kids often help, so there is enough room for all.

[photographs42]

Kurt,
Looks like you’re coming along nicely. I have a couple of suggestions, however, that you might consider. First, think about moving the enlarger to the center of the dry side. Besides not having to work in the corner, you would have more freedom when dodging and burning (elbow room).

Next, unless you REALLY need the storage space, think about not putting the wall cabinets in. The room is small and the wall cabinets are going to make it seam smaller. Your office space is pretty large and whatever you plan to put in the wall cabinets could probably go there or in the storage room.

Seriously consider Clay’s suggestion to put the door on the other end. There are two advantages to this. One, making the door light tight will be much easier because the dark storage room will be on the other side. Second, the office/work space will be more flexible without the door.

Finally, the sink depth (front to back) looks a little tight. It’s hard for me to judge but it looks like you have a 2’-6” or 2’-8” door to the darkroom. This could be 2’-0” or 2’-2” and the sink could be a bit deeper. Remember the faucet or faucets are going to hang out over the trays.

Jerome

Oh, it’s a little late now but I hope you were listening to cowboy music when you did the drywall finishing. If you didn’t, I think the tape will all fall off.

[k_redder]

Kurt,
Looks like you’re coming along nicely. I have a couple of suggestions, however, that you might consider. First, think about moving the enlarger to the center of the dry side. Besides not having to work in the corner, you would have more freedom when dodging and burning (elbow room).

Next, unless you REALLY need the storage space, think about not putting the wall cabinets in. The room is small and the wall cabinets are going to make it seam smaller. Your office space is pretty large and whatever you plan to put in the wall cabinets could probably go there or in the storage room.

Seriously consider Clay’s suggestion to put the door on the other end. There are two advantages to this. One, making the door light tight will be much easier because the dark storage room will be on the other side. Second, the office/work space will be more flexible without the door.

Finally, the sink depth (front to back) looks a little tight. It’s hard for me to judge but it looks like you have a 2’-6” or 2’-8” door to the darkroom. This could be 2’-0” or 2’-2” and the sink could be a bit deeper. Remember the faucet or faucets are going to hang out over the trays.

Jerome

Oh, it’s a little late now but I hope you were listening to cowboy music when you did the drywall finishing. If you didn’t, I think the tape will all fall off.

Hey Jerome,
I was thinking about the possibility of moving the enlarger to the center of the dry side as elbow room is in short supply in the corner. My thinking was that the 5 ft of uninterrupted counter top would be better for loading film and or hangers, also the enlarger baseboard sticks out 7 inches farther than standard counter top depth into an already narrow walkway so it seemed to make more sense on the end rather than the middle, but I'm certainly open to other opinions on that since this would be a fairly easy change to make at this stage.
As far as storage, most darkrooms that people have posted pics of seem to have stuff on shelves and or cabinets just about everywhere so I was afraid of leaving myself short on storage space, again I'm open to different opinions on that too. The office space is funny, on paper the dimensions make it seem big, but between the full width bench under the window (duct work) and the angled ceilings, it feels a lot smaller in reality.
The door is 2'6", and the sink depth is just enough to fit trays for 16x20 prints which I don't foresee doing too often but like everyone says, leave room enough just in case. So it may be a little tight for 16x20 but should be fairly comfortable for most of the sizes I'm most likely to do.
About that cowboy music. Never heard that one. I hope "Cowboys from Hell" (Pantera) will do, cuz that's as close as I can get, but since I'm still doing the finish coat on the drywall, maybe there's still time.

Kurt

[k_redder]

Kurt,
Looks like you’re coming along nicely. I have a couple of suggestions, however, that you might consider. First, think about moving the enlarger to the center of the dry side. Besides not having to work in the corner, you would have more freedom when dodging and burning (elbow room).
(clip)


Maybe something like this might work. It leaves the walkway 30 in at its narrowest point. I like the way it looks on paper and it definitely helps with the elbow room.

[photographs42]

Maybe something like this might work. It leaves the walkway 30 in at its narrowest point. I like the way it looks on paper and it definitely helps with the elbow room.

That looks better to me. As for the wall cabinets, I suggest making cardboard box surrogates and tack them up to get a feel for the effect.

I’m not sure why, but I load film on the enlarging easel (20x24). My enlarger is attached to the wall so I don’t have a baseboard.

As for the Cowboy music, I’m an Architect and whenever I’m on a job site where the dry wall people are working they are listening to Cowboy music, so I figure it must be a requirement. I checked and there is nothing in the building code about it.

Jerome

[k_redder]

That looks better to me. As for the wall cabinets, I suggest making cardboard box surrogates and tack them up to get a feel for the effect.

I’m not sure why, but I load film on the enlarging easel (20x24). My enlarger is attached to the wall so I don’t have a baseboard.

As for the Cowboy music, I’m an Architect and whenever I’m on a job site where the dry wall people are working they are listening to Cowboy music, so I figure it must be a requirement. I checked and there is nothing in the building code about it.

Jerome

I'm really happy with the way the sketch looks with the enlarger in the center of the dry side, so I drew this up to get a better feel for the way the space will look when it's done. Now if only I can get the actual space to look as finished as the drawing, I'll be getting somewhere. Well, back to the drywall...

[Monty McCutchen]

Hello Kurt,

You may be aware of this already but on APUG there is a whole thread with almost 600posts, many of which are pictures of other's darkrooms and the comments that accompanied their thoughts that went into them. If you have some time it might be enjoyable to look through the 'darkroom portraits' and see what you might want to include in your design. It is a great resource for different ideas.

best,

Monty

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/10966-darkroom-portraits.html

[PBimages]

Just spotted this thread, so I thought I would add my partly completed darkroom to it, the basic construction is a 7 foot x 5 foot wooden shed, that has been waterproofed, insulated and plasterboarded and skimmed over!

It contains a wet area with cold running water and drainage and a resonably sized dry area, it even has a fridge in it, for Film and paper storage!

The shed is mounted 10 inches in the air, due to a rat problem that we have round here, so it does at least have space for the dogs to run underneath.

it should be finished either this week, or next week!

Colour scheme used, Matt Black round the Dry area, and Matt White everywhere else!

I'll post the finished images when it's finished!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2631248108_bcd281e76f_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2630425487_789711be49_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/2631246796_36b8fb098c_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/2631247186_dfb66ab425.jpg

[Clay Turtle]

Looks real good but I don't see venting needed to keep moisture from accumalating in the dark cool area you have produced? Alot of trouble tends to manifest themselves when people started to seal their homes to conserve energy down here in the South!

[PBimages]

There is a door vent not shown on the images and an extract fan behind "Phil the Plasterer" it's positioned at roof hight and is vented out the other side at floor level that way the plasterboard forms a light trap!

I now have it pretty much finished, installed the enlarger only for the lamp to blow but there again it has been in storge since 1999, so I did sort if expect it the new lamp arrived this morning!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2636251735_d6db251c34.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/2636251127_35279e9904.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/2637076148_d802a8e044.jpg?v=0

This is before I installed the enlarger, I will post some more images hopefully this week somethime of the finished darkroom, but at the moment I have some college assignments I need to finish first!

[Jrewt]

Lookin good! I wish I could 'build' a darkroom, I have a huge space that I use for my DR, but it's 'built' with heavy duty metal shelving from home depot. I tried to build a stand for my 5 foot fiberglass sink, and failed so miserably that I didn't even attempt to break into the water line so's I could get running water in there. Have fun in there!

Cheers

[PBimages]

I plan on having fun in there, but at the moment the only enlarger I have goes upto 6cm x 6cm negatives so I need to find a way of printing from 5" x 4" Negatives, my scanner cannot scan that large so I have a problem!

But at least I can load the film, take the pictures and happily develope the film so it should be fun in there, and with the ventilation now installed it should be almost fume free!

As once I am in there, there is no-way anyone else can enter the room unless I unlock the door from the inside, I had to make the shed/darkroom that secure as the local idiots round here would break in and smash my equipment for the hell of it, as they would not be able to sell any of it!

[PBimages]

Here is the finished Darkroom, including my equipment... OK the enlarger works upto medium format, but untill I locate a Cheap Large Format it will do for the time being!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2660879784_62d387a86d_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2660052411_dd7ef5478a_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/2660880016_21d67bee02_m.jpg

The images show the darkroom inside and out, as you can see the on the images the Yellow Hose Pipe is the water supply with the white waste pipe... the used chemicals are being dumped into a seperate container and disposed of seperatly with the mains water being used to water the Lawn.

Be nice to hear any comments or improvements people would make to it!

[neil poulsen]

Very cool!

Can you make the window bigger, a little wider? It would be neat being able to look out as you work.

On storage space, is there really that much that you actually need in the darkroom? You have a lot of storage area. You could perhaps "add" space by cutting down on darkroom storage.

From one of the photos, it looks like you have forced air coming into the room. Will that suffice for an incoming vent? Removing air using a fan requires that the air be replaced by air from the outside.

Consider a metal door. They don't warp like wood one can. So, that might help keep light seals sealed.

As for processing 16x20, you might consider processing in two trays, one for the developer and one for the remaining chemistries. You could have the second full of stop after development. Then replace the stop in order with fixer, hypo clearing agent, etc. Each of these last few chemistries would have their own container. This would maybe give you room for a 16x20 washer at the right of the sink?

Here's my darkroom. It's a little smaller than yours, and at that, there's about a 1.5 square foot utility shaft extending from the wall at the left that prevented me from extending my 4' "The Sink" any further. The dimensions are 6.5'x8.25', which is about 52 usable square feet. (Adjusting for the utility shaft.)

Out of view on the right is a film-drying cabinet.

My moment of glory was when I finished the board hanging on the left wall. All my plumbing and and wet-side electronics are contained on this sheet of plywood that connects to the outside world with two hoses and a plug. I routed all the pipes behind the board and brought outlets through to the front. So, this board hangs on two vertical 2x2's, to allow space for the plumbing. Anyway, when I leave, it leaves.

[k_redder]

Very cool!

Can you make the window bigger, a little wider? It would be neat being able to look out as you work.

On storage space, is there really that much that you actually need in the darkroom? You have a lot of storage area. You could perhaps "add" space by cutting down on darkroom storage.

From one of the photos, it looks like you have forced air coming into the room. Will that suffice for an incoming vent? Removing air using a fan requires that the air be replaced by air from the outside.

Consider a metal door. They don't warp like wood one can. So, that might help keep light seals sealed.

As for processing 16x20, you might consider processing in two trays, one for the developer and one for the remaining chemistries. You could have the second full of stop after development. Then replace the stop in order with fixer, hypo clearing agent, etc. Each of these last few chemistries would have their own container. This would maybe give you room for a 16x20 washer at the right of the sink?

Here's my darkroom. It's a little smaller than yours, and at that, there's about a 1.5 square foot utility shaft extending from the wall at the left that prevented me from extending my 4' "The Sink" any further. The dimensions are 6.5'x8.25', which is about 52 usable square feet. (Adjusting for the utility shaft.)

Out of view on the right is a film-drying cabinet.

My moment of glory was when I finished the board hanging on the left wall. All my plumbing and and wet-side electronics are contained on this sheet of plywood that connects to the outside world with two hoses and a plug. I routed all the pipes behind the board and brought outlets through to the front. So, this board hangs on two vertical 2x2's, to allow space for the plumbing. Anyway, when I leave, it leaves.

Wow! That board is a piece of work. I really looks like you thought that through before you built it. For the time being, the plumbing in my darkroom is going to be of the most basic sort (hot/cold and a drain).
I probably should have labeled the "storage" space something different on that floorplan. What is called "storage" on that drawing is really unfinished/uninsulated attic space, not to store any darkroom related stuff but just plain old household junk (house has no basement), a concession to the pack rats in the family.
The room has one forced air vent (in between the base cabinets supporting the sink) and 2 passive inlets in the ceiling that will allow air in from the hallway outside the darkroom. The air is drawn out through the 2 exhaust vents over the sink with the in line fan that I mentioned. Probably not the perfect arrangement, but the best I could come up with based on the situation. My hope is that it at least works better than nothing.
The sink is long enough to accomodate 4 trays for 16x20 so I think it will be workable for the occasions I may have to print that size.
One thing I can say for certain is that absolutely everything in there is a compromise of some sort or another. All in all though, I'm pretty happy with the way it's going so far (except maybe the pace). I just keep telling myself that if I keep plugging away at it, it'll be done someday.

[neil poulsen]

Thanks. I had to tear out darkroom plumbing one time when we moved, and I decided, never again.

It was designed on paper. The trick was not having copper pipes cross each other. Then at the last, I discovered that the temp controller's hot and cold were the opposite of what I thought. I was able to reroute it successfully.


One thing I can say for certain is that absolutely everything in there is a compromise of some sort or another.

Boy, if that isn't the truth, especially with a smaller-sized space. Mine evolved over time, and it works pretty good.

I'll add one more comment. I painted my first darkroom a neutral, darker gray, had black around the enlarger, etc. Talk about depressing! So, this one is painted in colors I like, with a nice sheet vinyl floor, etc. Very pleasant. I do only black and white printing and examine prints in a more controlled area.

[aduncanson]

Here is the finished Darkroom, including my equipment... OK the enlarger works upto medium format, but untill I locate a Cheap Large Format it will do for the time being!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2660879784_62d387a86d_m.jpg





I keep coming back to this picture and wondering why that coffee maker is in such a prominent position, Oh, I'm sorry that is your medium format enlarger! -Sorry, that was intended in fun only.

Your darkroom is a very impressive project. It reminds me of my thoughts on building a mobile darkroom (possibly complete with an enlarger - only because I have a spare hulk) in a recreational vehicle or trailer, a caravan to you, I think. Good luck in finding a suitable enlarger.

[k_redder]

It has been a while, so I figured I'd post an update. All of the drywall is done (darkroom, work area, hallway, closets, stairwell) finished and primed. This was my first experience doing drywall and although I'm very happy with how it came out, I can now honestly say that I'm in no hurry to take on another project where drywall is involved (at least not on this scale). The cabinets are now set, I can start painting, build the sink, trim, light fixtures etc. I still have a fair amount to do yet, but it's getting there, slow but sure.

[dneilson]

I'm wondering what type of a door you are planning on using. I am also in the process of building a darkroom and am wondering what to use for a door to control the light. Opening it up into another dark area really isn't an option. I am considering using a pre-hung exterior door which would have all of the weather stripping on it to control the light. Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Merg Ross]

Kurt, I agree, installing and finishing drywall is not the most pleasant aspect of darkroom construction. It looks like you are progressing well and now have more pleasant tasks ahead. Congratulations!

As to the door question, I used an interior door (hollow core) and added weather stripping. The door opens into a bright room and I have never had problems with stray light. If you are opening to the outside, then an exterior door makes sense. Depending on the space, you might also consider a pocket door.

[Nathan Potter]

My darkroom has both an interior (30 inch wide) door opening to the computer room and an exterior (36 inch wide) door opening to a wood working workshop. I simply use foam adhesive backed weatherstripping from Home Depot to seal around the doors - totally light tight.

Kurt, real nice so far. I like the cabinets - Birch plywood? I built all mine with oak plywood - free standing so that I can move them if I move. The wet stations connect to the wall with hoses like a washing machine. BTW if you could install an electrostatic dust precipitator in the incoming air vent you would be rewarded with greatly reduced particulate contamination. Also shove a 10 followed by a 5 micron filter in the water supply if you're going to do film development.

Hang in there - It'll get done.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Gary L. Quay]

I couldn't help noticing that the darkrooms being pictured here are being constructed by people with something known as "patience." When I get the chance, I'll get a few photos together of my darkroom. I waited ten years to build it, and when I got the chance, it was a grand total of two weeks between when I ripped up the rug, and when I developed my first print. Between my day job and raising a small, but uniquely time-consuming, family, I did it in less than 16 hours of work. I built a differnt sink since then, and got better enlargers and other sundry equipment, but the rest of it is pretty much the same.

[CG]

... My moment of glory was when I finished the board hanging on the left wall. All my plumbing and and wet-side electronics are contained on this sheet of plywood that connects to the outside world with two hoses and a plug. I routed all the pipes behind the board and brought outlets through to the front. So, this board hangs on two vertical 2x2's, to allow space for the plumbing. Anyway, when I leave, it leaves.

I'm building a darkroom, after a brief hiatus (thirty years +/-). I'm totally knocked out by your well thought out and constructed your plumbing / electronics board. I have not yet reached the plumbing or electric so I have time to incorporate good ideas.

What's your rationale for combining electrics and plumbing on one board? (I trust from your beautiful work that you have a very solid reason.)

C

[CG]

A couple of plumbing questions I'd like to address to everyone, since it's been a long time since I last set up a darkroom. Back then my set up was minimal. Just a simple two valve hot and cold utility room faucet unit. I now have access to a thermostatic temperature control set up - probably a Leonard Valve unit. I'm presuming a really good setup would have a hot outlet, a cold outlet, and a tempered outlet.

1.) What sort of outlet valves and faucet to use. Is there any benefit to one or another kind of valve or faucet.

2.) Should I use faucets that have garden hose threads at the end?

3.) Should I consider any kind of snap on fitting at the end of the faucet to snap on hoses for a washer? Modularity always appeals to me, but I suspect I am making things too complicated.

4.) Should I have a dedicated faucet for washing?

5.) Slope of the sink. So far, I am tentatively going with about 1" slope for each 5' of run. I want it to drain but not to be so steep as to make work with trays annoyingly lopsided. Any thoughts from folks about what would make for a too flat or too steep sink?

6.) How high off the sink floor should the spout be?

7.) Any other items to consider?

Thanks!

C

[davemiller]

Your last point first, working height. remember that you will be working on the bottom of the sink, that sounds obvious but it's easy to forget and set up to the sink rim and them suffer a bad back.

I'm not sure that you can have too many water outlets, I use 1/4 turn taps designed for appliance connections, and the do come with threaded ends and hose adapters.

[Colin Graham]

Looks great Kurt.

C, For a faucet setup, I used some CPVC and quick release garden hose adapters. Easy to make some removable faucets that pivot. They reduce splashing because they're low to the deck, but are easy to remove to fill up large containers, etc. You can attach hoses to them as well. For the mixer I used a second-hand temp control that keeps it at 70F, but I also have a direct line to hot water so that's always readily available. Simple ball valves control water flow. Nice to have one in front of the inline filter, so your don't have to shut everything down to change out the filter. Another bonus is everything is modular, so it's easy and cheap to update, change things around.

I only sloped my sink around 1/4" per ft. It drains a little slow, but with the high volume of water the weak link is really the drain, unless you're using a shower-sized drain. The squeegees help with any leftover puddles, which are more due to the rough texture of my DIY epoxy sink than the slope.

(PS- tall backsplashes are very handy.)

[CG]

I appreciate the fast responses!

Thats a nice faucet set up Colin.


Your last point first, working height. remember that you will be working on the bottom of the sink, that sounds obvious but it's easy to forget and set up to the sink rim and them suffer a bad back ...

My back is already touchy so that's one I'm being careful with. So far my plan is to have the middle of the sink at 36" with a rim 3.75" higher. I put a mock up wood rim that high at the edge of my studio worktable which is a 36" high surface, and did a bit of leaning on it and made tray rocking motions to see how it felt. It felt like a pretty good height for me. I'm thinking of rounding the edges of the top of the rim to make it more pleasant to lean against.

If my plan withstands scrutiny, the left end of the sink bottom should be an inch higher, and the right end an inch lower. The whole sink will be 10' long with an adjacent area for washing. The rim stays at 39.75" all round.


... I'm not sure that you can have too many water outlets, I use 1/4 turn taps designed for appliance connections, and the do come with threaded ends and hose adapters.

I'm thinking two sets of hot, cold and tempered outlets.


... C, For a faucet setup, I used some CPVC and quick release garden hose adapters. Easy to make some removable faucets that pivot. They reduce splashing because they're low to the deck, but are easy to remove to fill up large containers, etc. You can attach hoses to them as well. For the mixer I used a second-hand temp control that keeps it at 70F, but I also have a direct line to hot water so that's always readily available. Simple ball valves control water flow. Nice to have one in front of the inline filter, so your don't have to shut everything down to change out the filter. Another bonus is everything is modular, so it's easy and cheap to update, change things around. ...

I really like the idea of faucets that pivot out of the way or detach when you need to handle large containers. Do you use the ball valves just to do an "all on" vs "all off" setting or do you use them to fine tune the flow rate to intermediary volumes?


... I only sloped my sink around 1/4" per ft. It drains a little slow, but with the high volume of water the weak link is really the drain, unless you're using a shower-sized drain. The squeegees help with any leftover puddles, which are more due to the rough texture of my DIY epoxy sink than the slope ...

Maybe I should use an epoxy filler and some sanding to obtain a smooth inside sink surface to make it drain as well as possible since my sink will slope about 1/5" per foot, a tiny bit less than your 1/4" per foot.


... (PS- tall backsplashes are very handy.) ...

I've been wondering about that. So far my scheme is to paint the back wall above the sink back side rim with lots of some very waterproof spar varnish or the like, but maybe I should surface the wall with something hard and waterproof like a layer of heavily treated plywood.

Thanks for the ideas!

C

[Colin Graham]

Oh yeah, the ball valves are infinitely adjustable for flow rate. Be sure to test them at the store, some are very difficult to turn, especially the CPVC ball valves. I had those first, but swapped those out to brass adapters and brass ball valves because they were so much easier to fine tune.

If I had one thing to do over, it would be the epoxy sink. I used a cheap resin and was in a fantastic hurry to get upand running, so I didn't get it as smooth as I would like. But, it works. A good trick for making the sink bottom is to cut a kerf the length of the sink about half way through the plywood on the bottom, bend it and wedge a stainless steel rod in it so the bottom of the sink has a shallow canoe shape along the length. Helps keep water from pooling in the corners and along the edges, but it's not deep enough to deform full trays.

I ended up using formica for the backsplash- just glued it to some 1/2 plywood so I could remove it for maintenance, and siliconed all seams and joints. A 'picture rail' along the top is great for mounting fixtures and hooks, etc.

I'm 6'3 and made the bottom of the sink at 36". A good rule of thumb for any workbench/table height is to stand comfortably with arm relaxed and measure to the bottom of your palm held parallel to the ground.

[k_redder]

My darkroom has both an interior (30 inch wide) door opening to the computer room and an exterior (36 inch wide) door opening to a wood working workshop. I simply use foam adhesive backed weatherstripping from Home Depot to seal around the doors - totally light tight.

Kurt, real nice so far. I like the cabinets - Birch plywood? I built all mine with oak plywood - free standing so that I can move them if I move. The wet stations connect to the wall with hoses like a washing machine. BTW if you could install an electrostatic dust precipitator in the incoming air vent you would be rewarded with greatly reduced particulate contamination. Also shove a 10 followed by a 5 micron filter in the water supply if you're going to do film development.

Hang in there - It'll get done.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

I'm also using a standard interior door which will get the weatherstrip treatment down the road. I was originally going to use an exterior door but because I wanted the door to swing in to the darkroom and I didn't want the metal sill on an exterior door sticking out into the office/workspace, it wasn't going to work.
The cabinets are a perfect example of "mission creep". I originally planned only to build the cabinet under the enlarger because of its non-standard depth (due to the baseboard). Then, I went ahead and built the wall cabs because I wanted 42" cabs to go to the ceiling and nobody seemed to sell 42" wall cabinets in the "cheap" isle at Lowe's or the Depot. Next, I went ahead and built the base cabs for under the sink that I'm going to build so that I could make them a non-standard height so the sink height would match the counter top height of the dry side (they could then be made to better match the sink depth also). Since I was now all warmed up, I might as well build the last two for the dry side. It was more work, but I now have (better) custom built cabinets in exactly the dimensions I need for probably less than one-fourth of what even the cheapest cabinets from Lowe's or Depot would have cost.
It has added time to the project, but since I'm still rounding up camera equipment not having the darkroom done isn't the limiting factor (yet).

[CG]

... The cabinets are a perfect example of "mission creep" ...

Kurt,

That's understatement. They're awfully professional and make my wood butchering seem pitiful by comparison. I feel ambitious just by cobbling together my rough 2x framed sink base. It'll be solid as a mercedes, not quite so pretty.

C

[k_redder]

.....and then there was sink. Ready to be finished (after cutting in for the drain and faucet). There are probably a million different ways of putting together a sink, each depending on the particular situation, so for what it's worth, this how I skinned this particular cat. I hope you all don't mind that I keep posting these updates. This is the kind of thing I liked to look for while I was planning the darkroom and I thought I'd add some more examples to what's out there. Also, posting these reports helps me to realise that progress is being made. So it's therapeutic in a way. Thanks for bearing with me.

[CG]

Looking good!

C

[Ed Pierce]

Here's a few pics of my new darkroom which I finished a few weeks ago. The available space was 7x8 with a low ceiling...so I built an enlarger alcove into the next room which had a higher ceiling.

For a door I used a standard interior prehung door, then added strips of wood to the door and the frame to create a baffle. On the floor I added a 1x6 piece of maple to act as baffle there. So far it's light tight...we'll see if it develops any leaks.

My original 6' ABS sink is supplemented with a small one I built for the print washer to fit the leftover space. It's made of plywood coated with a spray-on truck bedliner.

Under the enlarger are two light-tight drawers for 16x20 paper. After only a few sessions, I can't believe I survived without them...a huge space saver.

I still have a few more shelves to add, but I'm up and running after 8 months. We moved and did a lot of renovating, the darkroom (and attached workroom) being only a small part of the overall project.

[k_redder]

Here's a few pics of my new darkroom which I finished a few weeks ago. The available space was 7x8 with a low ceiling...so I built an enlarger alcove into the next room which had a higher ceiling.

For a door I used a standard interior prehung door, then added strips of wood to the door and the frame to create a baffle. On the floor I added a 1x6 piece of maple to act as baffle there. So far it's light tight...we'll see if it develops any leaks.

My original 6' ABS sink is supplemented with a small one I built for the print washer to fit the leftover space. It's made of plywood coated with a spray-on truck bedliner.

Under the enlarger are two light-tight drawers for 16x20 paper. After only a few sessions, I can't believe I survived without them...a huge space saver.

I still have a few more shelves to add, but I'm up and running after 8 months. We moved and did a lot of renovating, the darkroom (and attached workroom) being only a small part of the overall project.

Ed,
Congratulations! That room looks great. I especially like the enlarger station. Did you build that? It looks very nice. Well done.

[Bill Kumpf]

Kurt,

What materials did you select for the sink and its coating?

[k_redder]

Kurt,

What materials did you select for the sink and its coating?

Bill,
The sink is made with 3/4" birch/maple plywood. I plan to coat it with West Systems (105/206) epoxy.

[Ed Pierce]

Ed,
Congratulations! That room looks great. I especially like the enlarger station. Did you build that? It looks very nice. Well done.

Yep all by myself - thank you

[Steve Kefford]

...I plan to coat it with West Systems (105/206) epoxy.

Why have you chosen 206? As I understand it, 205 hardner is the norm, an d206 gives longer cure times.

How many coats are you going to give? Are you going to wait for full cure (and hence sanding) between coats?

Just curious, as I will shortly be doing the same.

Steve

[Steve Kefford]

... I use 1/4 turn taps designed for appliance connections, and the do come with threaded ends and hose adapters.

Do you mean what is commonly called in the UK as Washing Machine Valves as per the picture?

Steve

[Steve Kefford]

....I'm 6'3 and made the bottom of the sink at 36". A good rule of thumb for any workbench/table height is to stand comfortably with arm relaxed and measure to the bottom of your palm held parallel to the ground.

I am also 6'3" and considering the height of my soon to be constructed sink. What depth do you have at the front of the sink?

Steve

[k_redder]

Why have you chosen 206? As I understand it, 205 hardner is the norm, an d206 gives longer cure times.

How many coats are you going to give? Are you going to wait for full cure (and hence sanding) between coats?

Just curious, as I will shortly be doing the same.

Steve

Steve,
I am leaning towards the 206 Hardener mostly because I feel a little more comfortable having the extra working time, especially during the step where I will use a thickened mixture to get fillets into all of the inside corners. I just don't want to feel that I need to rush to get the stuff on. I'm planning on doing a minimum of 2 coats (full cure/sand between), but will do more if it seems like it needs it. I'm guessing that the 1 qt size (1.22 qt mixed) isn't going to do the job so i'm looking at having to buy the 1 gallon size. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has used the West Sytems epoxy, just how much epoxy is required based on the size of their sink and how many coats they applied. I'd hate to buy the gallon size (kind of expensive) if it isn't really necessary. Just as another data point for your sink height question, I'm 6 foot even and I also made my sink with a height of 36" (bottom of sink, mid slope) and it seems comfortable to me.

[Steve Kefford]

.... I'm planning on doing a minimum of 2 coats (full cure/sand between), but will do more if it seems like it needs it. ....

Reading the West documentation, if you are doing a full cure/sand, you should use at least 3 coats. An alternative is to not wait for a full cure before applying the second coat. In this situation subsequent coats are applied without sanding, and only two coats are required, plus its finished quicker. I am not sure what effect the choice of 205 or 206 hardner will have on this second option.

Steve

[k_redder]

Well, it's finally finished (I know it's never REALLY finished), but at least I can move stuff in and start setting things up. It's almost embarrassing that it took this long to finish, but things are what they are and that's just how long it took. I'm just glad it's done and now when I go upstairs to work, it'll be to make prints, not work on the drywall.

[Mark O'Neill 107.87]

It looks pretty schmick! Well done, but have you told your wife yet????

[Bill Kumpf]

I would be afraid to use a darkroom that nice.......

[willwilson]

I am very jealous. Nice work! Hope it lets you make some nice work as well.

[Ron McElroy]

Great looking sink! Did you use many coats of polyurethane?

[k_redder]

Great looking sink! Did you use many coats of polyurethane?
Thanks. It's actually West System epoxy, 3 coats. Since it's used mostly on boats it seemed like the right thing for the job, plus after searching around it seems a lot of other people have used it for their darkroom sinks and there were few if any complaints, so I went with it. I had never used it before and wasn't exactly sure what to expect, but it isn't too hard to work with. The only thing that surprised me was that it flows for a lot longer than I thought it would.
The bottom of the sink looks like a sheet of glass, but the vertical sides wanted to keep dripping and I had to babysit with a brush in hand waiting for it to set, so the sides are not quite as smooth. West System makes several thickening agents that can be mixed in, which might have helped, but it came out fine. It'll certainly do the job it needs to do.

[macandal]

Hi. This was a great thread. Is there a list of what to get when putting together a darkroom? Thanks.

[Greg Gibbons]

I find that the computer monitor looks really really bright when you're in a darkroom, and it blinds you for looking at what the inkjet is doing. :D

Kidding. Looks like a really fun room. Enjoy!

[Kirsten Flo]

I never did color printing, but I know Color analyzers are supposed to determine what color filtration and presumeably the exposure to use for a particular print.Lets start with b&w...when you print b&w, you're supposed to make teststrips, exposing your paper by 2 to 5 second intervals, and then developing that strip, trying again until you find just the right time to expose your paper so that you get a "good" print - a nice range from black to white. You also play with contrast filter, that adjust what how much the range is from the blackest to the whitest part of the image.

[d.s.]

RE: West System...I used to work in a custom boat shop building Carolina sport fishing boats, wood epoxy. At that time we were told by a WEST rep. that microscopically the resin looks kinda like swiss cheese. Therefor 4 to 5 coats are needed to insure that the holes don't line up allowing water to find it's way through. This is regardless of the thickness of each coat.
I use a squeegee to apply the resin with the first coat thinned with acetone. That helps it penetrate deeper into the wood fibers. It also raises the grain of the wood. After it kicks, wipe it down with paper towels soaked with water and dry with another paper towel. This removes the amine blush that comes to the surface then sand it lightly to knock the points off.
Afterwords re coat with neat resin, (un thinned), using a squeegee. When this coat is just getting green, (not kicked but not gooey, but you can leave a fingerprint in it). Re coat again and continue this process until the total number of coats you want to apply has been completed.
After the last coat has cured, the amine blush will come to the surface. Repeat the washing with water changing the paper towels often and dry with fresh paper towels. The amine blush will feel oily and the towels will have an orange color on them. The blush seems to be more prominent during high humidity. The blush cannot be removed with anything but water soaked rags and wiped with fresh rag or towel.
The squeegee application uses very little resin, A little goes a long way. Thin is flexible. Thick, as applied with a brush or roller can crack or shatter if something is dropped on it like a nikkor tank.
Use west silica thickener for fillets after the first 3 coat of resin has been applied. I use a brush to smooth out the fillets in this type of application if necessary. Wash and lightly sand the sink before using.
The outside of the sink should be sealed with resin or paint to prevent the wood from taking in moisture from the air which over time could rot the wood from the inside out.

WEST System means Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique.
It's a great system. I've used it for 25 years.

d.s.