8X10 Guys

[kev curry]

I don't know how on earth it happened, but theres a Shen8X10 in the post and its got my name on it:-)
I'm thinking.....'How nuts must it be to enlarge a 8x10 negative'.....! I'm haunted a little with the thought of a total reorganization of my small darkroom to accommodate such a enlarging beast!
I'm probably answering my own question here......But I'm just wondering how many of the 8X10 guys out there don't have an enlarger but are satisfied to 'only' do contact prints? I guess its a very personal question and maybe a bit of a silly one to ask, after all, time will tell....... but I'm just wondering?

Cheers
kev

[Nick_3536]

I don't have an enlarger but am seriously thinking of one.

Not so much for 8x10 but for 4x10 and 6x17.

I contacted KIENZLE Phototechnik. Their compact 8x10 is smaller then my 4x5 enlarger. It's not exactly cheap but it's cheaper then a new 11x14 plus holders. If the Euro exchange rate drops I'll likely pull the trigger.

My problem isn't with the size of 8x10 contacts it's the shape that more of an issue for me. If I liked the squarish shape more I'd have no problems with just 8x10 contacts.

[John Bowen]

Kev,

Although I've been shooting LF for 20+ years, I've only been shooting 8x10 for about 4 years now. So far, I've been very happy with 8x10 contact prints. But, here is the kicker, I purchased an 8x10 conversion head and related accessories for my Beseler 4x5 enlarger. I own a 16x20 print washer and the related trays so doing enlargements of 8x10 negavites isn't a problem at all. I've never been motivated to set up the 8x10 enlarging head. I just like the contact prints so much that the desire to enlarge one has never crossed my mind. I figurre one of these days I'll do an 8x10 of a grand (think Ansel) landscape that will just scream to be a much larger print, but until that happens the 8x10 conversion kit sits in boxes in my office.

And please DON'T PM me asking me if the 8x10 conversion head is for sale......if it ever is, I'll post it here.

[IanG]

When started using 10x8 4 years ago it was with the intention of contact printing. One look at my first negatives and I knew I had to enlarge them.

That was wise decision, 10x8 enlargers were very reasonable prices at the time with a lot of labs getting rid of them.

Go for it, the results of an enlarged 10x8 negative are worth seeing.

Ian

[John Powers]

If you are asking you are already half way down the slippery slope. That said, this is one of the homes of slippery slope sliders.

It has a lot to do with how close the print will be when you view it. If you hold it in your hand at the same distance you would read a book, then I think you will be very happy. If you put in on the wall in a nice mat and frame then stand that same distance away you may like it. Some may think you look a little strange walking around a room with your face 12-18 inches from the wall. If you are happy and if those that are important to you are happy, what does it matter?

If you want to stand back 5-10 feet or view from a chair, you may have trouble seeing the detail in the contact print that you went to such effort to obtain. If you stand back at 5-10 feet and look at a 20x24 enlargement of that detail you will be blown away.

With a little searching here and on APUG you will see much written on the subject of 8x10 enlargers. I have been using a Durst 138S converted from 5x7 to 8x10 with a cold light for three years and am very happy. Good luck finding what makes you happy.

John

[wfwhitaker]

If I only wanted to make big prints, I wouldn't necessarily photograph with an 8x10. My own fascination with 8x10 (and other large sizes) has much to do with the look that comes from using lenses which are long enough to cover the format (but still a normal perspective, i.e., not long for the format). Then there are the "lenses of character" - the portrait, soft focus and other lenses which have their own personality. The size of the final print is another consideration altogether. I'm still learning some of the alternative processes and that means contact printing. But in the interest of full disclosure, I confess I just bought an 8x10 enlarger.

[Walter Calahan]

I love scanning them, and then enlarging big for my Epson 9600 printer.

Not traditional, but fun none the less.

[caleb]

I enlarge, I couldn't go back if I tried. I can just squeeze out a 50 x 60 in my dinky little darkroom in the basement. I scored a Devere 8x10 many years ago when a local lab went under. This thing is amazing and the prints are just wonderful.

[Mike Castles]

Work with 8x10 and 7x11, no enlarger contact prints only - VDB,plt/pld, gum-over plt.pld. Main reason, just did not enjoy working with the 'big' paper, trays etc. Main reason, I just enjoy the alt. process and contact printing. Though I still enjoy enlarging 4x5, 5x7 and up is always contact print.

[John Kasaian]

Well, I have an 8x10 enlarger and I use it very rarely, mainly because very rarely does an 8x10 negative shout "enlarge me!" It is a nice option to have if you keep it simple. A converted Beseler 45 or Zone V would be a nice way to go IMHO, I have an elderly Elwood which is very affordable but is so huge it has it's have it's own zip code :D

[Brian Ellis]

I don't see much point in buying an 8x10 camera and all the related gear for the purpose of making darkroom enlargements unless you're going for really big prints, like something in the 32x40 range or up. If all you do is make darkroom enlargements in the 16x20 range you might as well use a 4x5 camera, there isn't any technical quality difference that I've ever been able to see between a 4x print from a 4x5 negative and a 2x print from an 8x10 negative (though I never tried a real side-by-side test).

Another alternative, which is the one I chose, was to make darkroom contact prints and scan and print digitally for enlargements on the rare occasions when I wanted an enlargement of an 8x10 negative. That way you don't tie up a lot of space (and money) in a darkroom setup for 8x10 enlargements but you still have the option of enlarging when you want to. But whatever you do, congratulations on your purchase, 8x10 is a great format and a real pleasure to use.

[Mark Sawyer]

I have a horizontal 8x10 enlarger that I doubt I'll ever use again. It makes very nice enlargements, but I have the contact print bug. Also, I more and more find myself using vintage and home-made soft optics, and images from those lose some of their look in much of an enlargement, more so than "normal" negatives.

If I were enlarging to a good size print from sharp lenses, I thing 5x7 would be the way to go.

[MIke Sherck]

I've been shooting 8x10 for three years now and only contact print. I have a 4x5 enlarger if I feel the need to photograph something and enlarge it, but haven't really used it much in the past couple of years.

Mike

[John Powers]

Kev,

With this range of answers we have pretty much given you what you already had, no answer at all, or the privlege to do anything you decide you want.

John

[Jim Galli]

I've always been totally satisfied with the 810 contacts. So why the other day when I went to pick up my ATL 3000 and the guy had a lovely Chromega F did I buy it too. Another tool in the tool box I tell myself. But it hasn't yet progressed beyond a pile of parts upstairs.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

If you shoot on 8x10" with a modern good quality lens and enlarge it 2x with a well aligned enlarger you get a print that can be compared to a 16x20 contact print only.
No 4x enlargement from a 4x5" or a digital print comes close to that quality. I think
Brian Ellis should make a "side by side test".

[xmishx]

I haven't shot with my 8x10 in over a decade, but plan to do so. I'm not so concerned about making ultra large prints, but as mentioned above, the look an 8x10 camera can give, especially shooting wide open. I'm planning on learning the make contact prints via Van Dyke and eventually Platinum/Palladium. I can also always have scans done and print digitally...

Ted

[stehei]

just to add my perspective,
I've shot 4*5 inch and am now shooting 8*10 inch,
I like 8*10 much more. I do only portraits with big
old lenses, and I love the tonality and the level of
detail, with a 'soft' look.
I also like the workflow with an 8*10 more,
the interaction with the sitter changes, it is more
a collaboration,

I scan my negative (800mb, PS does not like that),
than print it with my epson 3800. Can it match a
print? Probably not, but within my time-boundaries
this is what can be done. I will go and make contact
prints, and would like very much to do some enlargements,
but time is the problem here. The prints, btw, look
spectacular to my eyes, and match nothing I've ever
seen coming of that printer.

regards

stefan

[Mark Sawyer]

I haven't shot with my 8x10 in over a decade, but plan to do so. I'm not so concerned about making ultra large prints, but as mentioned above, the look an 8x10 camera can give, especially shooting wide open...

Funny, isn't it... for some the concern is in losing detail in enlarging, but for others, it's the soft images that don't depend on detail that really need the glow and tonalities of a contact print.

I've been making whole-plate sized enlargements from 4x5 negatives lately, and while they're lovely, I can tell they're not contact prints...

[Kevin Crisp]

I'll be honest, I hate making contact prints. So I enlarge 8X10. And I agree with Gudmundur.

[phil sweeney]

I contact print only 8 x 10 and 7 x 17.

[Robert Skeoch]

I started with just contact prints from 8x10. Then I had one shot that didn't look right at 8x10 so i sent it out to get a 16x20. As soon as I saw it I knew I was going to get an enlarger.
So now I make 20x24's and 16x20's as well as the 8x10's. I sell a few every year but make my living in other areas of photography.
I'm glad I went the enlarger route.
As far as quality between 4x5 and 8x10 .... the great thing about 8x10 is using the camera... seeing the image on the ground glass.... I don't think I could go back to 4x5 after shooting with the big ground glass the last few years. I'm sure the 4x5 would make a great print but I love shooting with the bigger ground glass.
-Rob

[Tori Nelson]

So far I have only contact printed my 8x10's but I did buy a De Vere 5108 last August. It's been sitting in storage until about 2 months ago when I moved it into my brand new darkroom. And there it still sits... and sits... and sits. I have no lens for it and am still trying to figure out what I need.
OMG, I believe I'm in danger of hijacking this thread. Sorry, I'll move the lens issue to another post.
Anyway, contact prints are beautiful but some negs really do scream to be enlarged.

[Maris Rusis]

I often think a 8x10 contact is exactly the right size. There is an aesthetic continuity in making the final photograph in the size it was first seen and committed to.

If the 8x10 ground glass image is the wrong size I stop looking.
If the image does not appeal then I won't burn an expensive piece of sheet film.
If the 8x10 neg is the wrong size I won't chase its possibilities for hours (and $$'s) in the darkroom.

I have a 8x10 enlarger but have yet to put a 8x10 neg in it.

[Michael Wynd]

Kev,
I have an 8x10 and I'm "satisfied" at the moment. Mainly because I don't have the money or a place big enough to put an 8x10 enlarger. If I could afford the money and space, then I would definitely buy an enlarger.
Mike

[audioexcels]

Enlarger sounds like a nice idea, but why not just scan the film with a decently cheap consumer flatbed? As one mentioned, 800MB isn't PS friendly, but he has never seen anything from his printer that has looked so beautiful. IMHO, I don't see why one would lose IQ from using a cheapo flatbed, wet-mounting the neg, properly post-processing it if it needs any, and print it on a nice printer. Enlarged version may be better, but by how much really?

As a side note, how much of your walls is covered with 16X20's, 20X24's, 30X40's, etc. etc.? You can use the 8X10 Contact to fill your house's walls, and have your best work professionally scanned or enlarged for a bit of money, but also put on CD in the case of a pro scan, and take even 10 images in very large sizes (60X80) of enlargement to fill a mansion....

I think it all comes down to how many large prints you intend to make and if making large prints will be of personal or commercial interest. If it is personal, I would go the more simple route of finding something either super cheap, even free to just get the heck out of my house enlarger so you can experiment, or take the majority of your images for Contact/Alt Process/Wetplate if you can do that/etc. etc. out of camera 8X10's, and use the ones "screaming" (as those put it) to be professionally enlarged via analog or digital.

As one person already said it, you've got your answers already;):):)

[Turner Reich]

8x10 enlarging worked for that guy in California, what was his name, Ansel Adams was it?

[Diane Maher]

I have an 8x10 Elwood enlarger, but no darkroom to use it in. At the moment, I do strictly contact printing.

[Brian Ellis]

If you shoot on 8x10" with a modern good quality lens and enlarge it 2x with a well aligned enlarger you get a print that can be compared to a 16x20 contact print only.
No 4x enlargement from a 4x5" or a digital print comes close to that quality. I think
Brian Ellis should make a "side by side test".

I hope you'll pass this information on to John Sexton, Bruce Barnbaum, and the many other prominent photographers who've been producing magnficent 16x20 prints from their 4x5 cameras for many years. They apparently are unaware of the fact that their prints don't come close to the quality they could be getting if only they used an 8x10 camera.

[kev curry]

Thanks for all the input and encouragement, congrats and support folks, its great reading through all the different takes that you all have..... its comforting to think that many of you find contact printing to be a satisfying end result. I'm pretty excited at the thought of looking at that big ground glass, it must be awesome. I've only ever contact printed a few 5x4s so I really don't have much experience with it.... I'm thinking, I've read a ton of photo books but don't remember reading much about making contacts from big negatives. It must be quite a challenge dodging and burning a contact? Yet another learning curve. If anyone wanted to share a few tips or recommend some reading material, that would be grand.

Best
kev

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Kev, I for one love contact printing. With the right neg the process is very enjoyable. I have a stash of Azo and do 8x10 and 11x14 contacts. Love the simplicity. For the 8x20 I contact on graded paper. With the slow silver chloride paper I can open my Thomas safe light wide open and enjoy printing in the light. I love the look of the old lenses I have and for me this fits the process. When I take out the sharp glass it gets even better. Then again I've never had any of my 8x10 negs enlarged. If I did I may have to get a bigger apartment.

Jim

[Kevin Klazek]

Kev, I have been shooting 8x10 for a little over a year now. The view is spectacular through the big glass. The contact prints are also spectacular in their own way, even at an 8x10 size. I only contact print. There is no problem dodging and burning. It is really no different than when doing so while enlarging. I actually use a 35mm enlarger for a light source and more importantly for using VC filters (I use a split grade printing process). The contact printing process is fairly easy to learn and make good prints. Just do it!


Kevin

[eddie]

i have been contract printing and it is great....BUT....i also have a n 8x10 enlarger, big paper and big trays. i do want to do some 8x10 enlarging for sure....just to do it! it has to be awesome. i have not set up the enlarger yet....but the day ius near.

eddie

[Skorzen]

i have been contract printing and it is great....BUT....i also have a n 8x10 enlarger, big paper and big trays. i do want to do some 8x10 enlarging for sure....just to do it! it has to be awesome. i have not set up the enlarger yet....but the day ius near.

eddie

Hmmm you have an 8X10 enlarger... I might have to make a trip to NY when I start shooting 8X10... j/k I wouldn't be that presumptuous. I have a copy camera that I want to try using to enlarge 8X10, as long as I can make it to 16X20 I think I'll be pretty much set.

[kev curry]

Cheers folks....... looking forward to 8x10 contacts:D

kev

''We start by loving the toys we end by loving the art''

[Gerry]

But I'm just wondering how many of the 8X10 guys out there don't have an enlarger but are satisfied to 'only' do contact prints? I guess its a very personal question and maybe a bit of a silly one to ask, after all, time will tell....... but I'm just wondering?

Cheers
kev

I find that an enlargement of my 8x10 negs makes for more powerful images. There is something about portraiture when it is bigger (maybe because it seems more realistically sized, more like the real person) that adds power. I can only go to 20x24 in my darkroom at present but want to go even bigger with my 8x10 neg enlargements. A contact print thou beautiful tonally just does not speak to me on the same level as a larger print does, I need at minimum a 11x14 size print, the larger the better is my view.