Mystery lens - whatisit

[big_ben_blue]

Hi folks,

I think, I just bought something in a moment of temporary insanity on the big famous auction block :o .
I am fairly sure it's a B&L Unar of some sort; but that's about the extend of my knowledge. Can anyone guide me what model it is? The seller mentions a weight of about 22lbs, a length of 9" and barrel diameter of 6.5".
Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300217679000

[Stephanie Brim]

Holy God, man. At least MY mystery lens only cost me $4. :D

[big_ben_blue]

Holy God, man. At least MY mystery lens only cost me $4. :D

Oh do you have to rub it in? The credit card company has already volunteered to do just that when I get my monthly statement :eek: (can we move on to a slightly happier topic, please :D )

[Dan Fromm]

Ben, why do you think it is an Unar?

All kidding aside, I think the seller was more than usually confused. The lens barrel looks somewhat like an aerial lens' barrel and the range of apretures is right for one. The seller didn't post an image of the lens attached to the camera whose image he posted, and it isn't obvious that the two can be connected. The lens seems to have no shutter, and the camera seems to have no focal plane shutter.

After you have it in hand, look it over, tell us what's written on it and whether it can in fact be attached to the camera.

Stephanie, if you had more money you'd buy bigger mysteries. Save your small monetary units and sooner or later you'll be able to buy doorstops and coffee tables. Re coffee tables, see http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/t1524.html . I've sat next to that lens, it really would serve as a coffee table.

[big_ben_blue]

The style of the two levers is very reminiscent if not identical to the larger 14" or 18" Zeiss Portrait Unars (first version around 1908 or so). One lever for aperture, the other to dial in the degree of softness. Definitely before the age of aerial lenses. Here's a similar one: 120220089373 (notice the buyer on that one).
The camera I really don't care about. It's just a badly aged Century; but might still be good as parts donor (I got better specimen in my collection). But you are right; this lens doesn't belong to the camera, and most certainly not on the groundglass side. I do have an interesting no-name studio camera (in black) in storage, which I intend to put the lens on.

[Jim Galli]

I have this lens out in my cabinet. It is a 16" Petzval marked 3A as it was an American copy of the famous Dallmeyer 3A lens. It's gi-normous compared to the Dallmeyer.

Seth Broder just sold the same lens (http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-Brass-Bausch-and-Lomb-16-F4-Portrait-3A_W0QQitemZ250235313702QQihZ015QQcategoryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) albeit much prettier a week ago for double what you paid, so you did fine. I was watching it too, knowing exactly what it was but I didn't have 300 shamolies to spend.

I think you may be able to completely take it apart, strip the yuccy black paint off, and have yourself a fine antique petzval there. Just a hint though. You'll need a studio camera with a 9X9 inch lens panel to hold the beastie up. No joke.

[jetcode]

I have this lens out in my cabinet. It is a 16" Petzval marked 3A ...

I really need to see your cabinet ... I really do ...

[Jim Galli]

I really need to see your cabinet ... I really do ...


...c'mon over...:D:D It's that big one at the back of the top drawer. FireKing. 1700 degrees 2 hour rating.

[Hugo Zhang]

No wonder Jim only uses a P.O. Box to keep the location of that cabinet secret.:)

[Stephanie Brim]

Stephanie, if you had more money you'd buy bigger mysteries. Save your small monetary units and sooner or later you'll be able to buy doorstops and coffee tables. Re coffee tables, see http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/t1524.html . I've sat next to that lens, it really would serve as a coffee table.

Yeah, probably. I've just decided that starting small may be a better idea. Knowing me, though, lenses will multiply like bunnies.

[big_ben_blue]

I have this lens out in my cabinet. It is a 16" Petzval marked 3A as it was an American copy of the famous Dallmeyer 3A lens. It's gi-normous compared to the Dallmeyer.

Seth Broder just sold the same lens (http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-Brass-Bausch-and-Lomb-16-F4-Portrait-3A_W0QQitemZ250235313702QQihZ015QQcategoryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) albeit much prettier a week ago for double what you paid, so you did fine. I was watching it too, knowing exactly what it was but I didn't have 300 shamolies to spend.

I think you may be able to completely take it apart, strip the yuccy black paint off, and have yourself a fine antique petzval there. Just a hint though. You'll need a studio camera with a 9X9 inch lens panel to hold the beastie up. No joke.

Jim, I knew I could count on you for sage advice.
Yup, watched Seth's lens too, but it was beyond my means (a beauty for sure). I sort of knew that my lens was a UNAR, but didn't want to rock the boat and broadcast it. And I am pretty sure I know why you didn't want to spend the "300 shamolies" on it; that other lens you have set your eyes on is one heck of a beast ;). It's on my watchlist too for mere entertainment (won't bid on it), so I wish you good luck.
My lens is going onto a no-name studio camera. Well, I got three to choose from, and now I have a good reason to give it new bellows :D.

Cheers

[big_ben_blue]

Yeah, probably. I've just decided that starting small may be a better idea. Knowing me, though, lenses will multiply like bunnies.

It's kind like a legal form of drug addiction - first you only want a little, then a little more, and soon it starts taking over your life. And all the addicts claim "I can stop anytime I want, just one more Dagor..." . Life is good

[Stephanie Brim]

Yeah, I want a Dagor. In fact, that really pretty one that Jim had up would do nicely...if I had $150. :D

[David Vickery]

I have two theories for this combination of equipment. Either, the lens was on a board that just happened to fit the back of the camera, so someone put them together, not knowing any better. Or, someone tried to make some sort of enlarger out of the two; because the lens is definitely attached to the camera in both photos in that auction.

Or.--a third idea!-- maybe someone was trying to photograph what they were trying to photograph and things didn't work out so they sold it all on ebay to you.

At first I thought what Dan said was right, that it was an aerial lens, but I think Jim Galli has it right, as usual--someday I'd like to drive out to Jim's house and just hang out for while(I could sleep in yer backyard, I'd promise to bring plenty of beer).

[Dan Fromm]

Yeah, I want a Dagor. In fact, that really pretty one that Jim had up would do nicely...if I had $150. :DStephanie, before you lose control again and try hard to buy a Dagor, read this: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=13109&highlight=lousy+dagor

There are lies, damned lies, and coverage/sharpness claims.

[Jan Pedersen]

My coated 210mm Dagor is a gem. As sharp as my 210 G-Claron and makes far more pleasing photos than any other lens in my collection.

[Jim Noel]

I use a 12" uncoated Dagor on my 7x17 and it works beautifully.
I also have a 6" uncoated which is great on the 5x7 , and a 10 3/4" coated which I use on everything up to and including the 8x10.

All of these are sharp and produce terrific negatives. I prefer them over my more modern lenses because there is something undefinable about the images which I like.

[Jim Galli]

So, did you get this tea kettle yet?

[big_ben_blue]

So, did you get this tea kettle yet?

Not yet. The slow postal system is a good way to learn meditation or maybe yoga or something - s t a y c a l m, w a i t, s t a y s o m e m o r e c a l m, w a i t s o m e l o n g e r (I need another coffee)

[big_ben_blue]

IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE ...

The lens arrived yesterday... and it's HUGE.
Jim came very close with his guess; it's not a 16" 3A, but a 19" 4A f/4 B&L.

It's in reasonable good condition with just some minor balsam seperation around the outer perimeter of the front elements. The aperture blades are stuck solid at the moment, as is the focussing knob and the "softness dial"; a simple clean&lube will probably fix those issues. It does need an extremely solid support indeed; something akin to the usual Kodak 2D's would just crumple.

Pictures to follow soon.

Chris

[Jim Galli]

ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ...........

the sound of the payout when you WIN your gamble for a change. If I'd have known somehow that it was the bigger 4a it would have made it's way to Tonopah I think ;)

[Stephanie Brim]

OMG, I want to see photos. Lots and lots of photos. FROM the lens, not of it. :)

So what *are* you going to mount the thing on?

[walter23]

Wow, helluva nice find.

Have you figured out why the hell it was backwards mounted on the rear of that camera yet?

[GPS]

Wow, helluva nice find.

Have you figured out why the hell it was backwards mounted on the rear of that camera yet?

The guy who had it wanted to do the most logic thing with it - to build a camera around the lens he had. He wanted to use the back standard as a front standard on his home made camera - there the plans stopped...
Really, the best with this kind of lenses is to make a simple camera just for this lens - you'll have much more pictures this way than trying to cross this animal with fine camera ladies...

[walter23]

Stephanie, if you had more money you'd buy bigger mysteries. Save your small monetary units and sooner or later you'll be able to buy doorstops and coffee tables. Re coffee tables, see http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/t1524.html . I've sat next to that lens, it really would serve as a coffee table.


Whoah, that's the coolest lens ever.

[Dan Fromm]

Walter, I beg to differ with you.

There are cooler lenses, also warmer ones. To see some of both types, go here http://www.lallement.com/pictures/files.htm and download the 1963 GOI catalog. To see more cool ones, go here http://www.photohistory.ru/Aircameralens.html .