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View Full Version : Direct camera exposure on Ilfochrome



Philip Caithness
14-Mar-2001, 07:13
Has anyone tried exposing via a camera directly onto Ilfochrome paper. In order to do this you would use a very large format camera (8x10 or greater) a nd a custom made 'film' back to hold the Ilfochrome paper.

You would be producing strictly one off images, but what would the quality be li ke? Would it be better than using a slide file. I'm just contemplating this as s omething to much around with.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Regards, Phil.

Lars Åke Vinberg
14-Mar-2001, 08:26
Isn't color paper for tungsten light? Unless I am mistaken, you would need a color correction filter for daylight (85B?)

Ken Burns
14-Mar-2001, 10:49
Phil:

Why would you need a custom made back? Why not just use a standard 8x10 film holder? You might have to trim the paper size a little bit, but you might not.

You definitely would have to make color corrections as mentioned above. An 85 series filter would be a good place to start, but some additional fine tuning of the color balance would probably be necessary. The Ilfochrome would have a very slow "film speed rating" so there would probably be fairly long exposure times that could result in some color shifts that you would have to correct for with CC filters. A little experimentation should take care of that.

The image you get will be reversed left to right, but that would be correctable by photographing a mirror image of the scene.

Fender
14-Mar-2001, 10:55
Phil,

Another issue is that, unlike film, the color balance in each packet of paper is slightly different. Before I went to a digital darkroom it used to take me 4 or 5 sheets to get the color calibrated each time I opened a fresh pack of paper.

-harry

Pete Andrews
14-Mar-2001, 11:09
I suspect that the contrast and colour saturation would be too low to be useful.Slide film has a mid-tone gamma of 2, and Ilfochrome is made to reproduce this exaggerated contrast, as well as being balanced for tungsten. The HC version might work.

Erik Gould
14-Mar-2001, 12:34
I've made pinhole camera images using ciba (ilfo) chrome in the past and got some fun results. I added the 85 blue filtration as was mentioned to get the stuff close to daylight balance, and my exposures were as one would expect very long. 60 min + as i recall. as far as being better than trans film, I would say no, but if you are interested in a unique look, and want to have fun, then yes. The image will be reversed too, like a d-type or tin type. signs will read backwards, etc.

Sean Billy Bob Boy yates
14-Mar-2001, 13:04
Hasn't Willie Anne Wright been doing this a good long while?

http://www.pinhole.com/exhibits/southland/statement.php3

Gustavo
31-Jan-2007, 09:04
If you care to see samples of something close to this google Carol Henry she does works that is similar to that, she exposes the paper via projection and then makes an LVP to make prints

Gustavo
31-Jan-2007, 09:05
http://carolhenry.com/

jonsmith
1-Feb-2007, 04:37
I have been doing it regularly. Here's a sample:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/sobenk/js0063.jpg

I use 85B or 85C filters. Sometimes I'll try one of each, and I usually prefer the 85B. I use ASA 3 which includes the filter factor.

Generally you need full sun for a nice image. Cloudy days don't look right, even if the exposure is correct. You almost can't give it enough exposure. When in doubt, give it more.

True, the image is backwards, but I scan them in, and could flip them if I wanted to. Generally I avoid having typography in a shot.

They usually need some color correction, but many look nice on the wall without it. Brown dirt tends to look pink. Blue skies and green trees look very nice.

Color balance is best towards sundown. Morning and mid-day tend to be off. Direct light hitting trees just before sundown is the best scenario.

I like the motion you get from wind blowing the foliage and things like that. Usually I use 4-5 second exposure. Sometimes as much as 1 minute if I want more depth of field.

I think it's just as reproducible as any other method today, just scan it in and print corrected copies digitally. That's how any lab would make prints for you.

I'll probably stop doing it though, because of the processing. The chemicals only last a month so I was saving up exposed sheets to do all at once, and trying to cram a lot of shooting into that month. Kind of hard for me, so I am going to stick to black and white for a while.

Alan Davenport
1-Feb-2007, 14:29
It's been done. I saw a webpage some time back, don't remember whose, for someone doing just this. He/she was determining the basic filtration for the batch of paper, using that in the camera, and exposing 8x10s directly, developing and selling. He/she would expose a bunch of sheets any time there was a good subject...

This whole thing sounds outrageously entertaining to me, but I suspect the initial learning curve will be expensive.

bob carnie
2-Feb-2007, 08:24
John Smith's posts says it all and looks a lot like the prints I have made using cibachrome paper in the camera.
Studio still lifes would be an easier subject matter in regards of the testing and consistant lighting and colour balance that is required .

SAShruby
2-Feb-2007, 09:21
You need also add UV filtration too. I did it as well. If you want to have satisfactory prints you would need:

Color meter
CC filters
UV Filter

Cibachrome Processor or trays.
Special chemistry P-3 for manual or P-30 for processor.

8x10 Camera
Film Holder
Lens
3-4 stage filter slot

Lots of time
Lots of paper
Lots of testing
Lots of patience
Good stomach (stinky processing)


Reward: Priceless.

Wayne
2-Feb-2007, 14:22
You need also add UV filtration too. I did it as well. If you want to have satisfactory prints you would need:


Cibachrome Processor or trays.
Special chemistry P-3 for manual or P-30 for processor.


I'm confused by this selection. P30 (or the new Pwhateveritscalled...3.5?) should work just as well if not better than P3 in trays I would think (drums would be better), and P3 is intended for use in processors. Its been a few years since I've done cibas, am I forgetting something?


Wayne

SAShruby
11-Mar-2007, 14:45
I'm confused by this selection. P30 (or the new Pwhateveritscalled...3.5?) should work just as well if not better than P3 in trays I would think (drums would be better), and P3 is intended for use in processors. Its been a few years since I've done cibas, am I forgetting something?


Wayne


P-3 is for trays and P-30 is specially designed for processor.
HTH.

Marco Annaratone
12-Mar-2007, 07:35
I have been doing it for more than a year now. All the info I found on the net was either grossly incomplete or pure rubbish, I must say.

There are complex relationships between color temperature shift and reciprocity issues (that create not just a variation in exposure times but color shifts as well). It can all be worked out with a lot of effort, an expensive set of filters (Lee), a good color temperature meter, and the school of hard knocks. All this if you want to get a really white snow, for instance (as it should be, at least for me). If you relax some of your constraints and accept a slight (but often pleasant) color cast the whole process gets much simpler.

I develop in a Jobo drum, and here too you have a number of variables that ought to be taken into account.

It is not rocket science but calls for lots of experimentation.

Good luck!

Wayne
12-Mar-2007, 09:29
P-3 is for trays and P-30 is specially designed for processor.
HTH.

OK you said it again but you are still mistaken. Both P3 and P30 are designed for use in processors. P30 is specifically designed for home use, which generally means tubes or small processors like the ICP-42 or Cap-40. P3 is intended for large commercial processors. P30 can be used in those home processors without titanium rods, unlike the much stronger P3 (bleach) which will destroy steel rods. Neither is designed for use in trays, although a small number of people do it anyway. I think I've heard of a half dozen, with me being one of them, very temporarily. Even the weaker P30 bleach isnt fun to work around in open trays.


Wayne

SAShruby
12-Mar-2007, 09:33
I have been doing it for more than a year now. All the info I found on the net was either grossly incomplete or pure rubbish, I must say.

There are complex relationships between color temperature shift and reciprocity issues (that create not just a variation in exposure times but color shifts as well). It can all be worked out with a lot of effort, an expensive set of filters (Lee), a good color temperature meter, and the school of hard knocks. All this if you want to get a really white snow, for instance (as it should be, at least for me). If you relax some of your constraints and accept a slight (but often pleasant) color cast the whole process gets much simpler.

I develop in a Jobo drum, and here too you have a number of variables that ought to be taken into account.

It is not rocket science but calls for lots of experimentation.

Good luck!

Marco,

I agree, it takes a lot of effort and investment to achieve the desired result. Color balance is a very important step, and before you can even take one picture, you need to find out the initial color filtration for your paper and add it to your overall color correction of the scene. You need to take out the UV light completely, so UV filter is a neccessity.

Cheers,

ralphotos
4-Dec-2011, 23:50
Yes I did fabricate a couple of cameras to do daylight exposure on Ilfochrome. I am presently doing 16x20 images with a custom built camera that has a built in mirror for image reverting. I use an apo artar 24 inch lens which gives even illumination at f25 which will require exposure times of 3 to 5 seconds in full sun. My ilfochrome deluxe super glossy looks color balanced using an 85 filter and warming polarizer filter fuzed together with mineral oil and placed at the nodal point in the lens. Normal processing seems about right or some first developer dilution with increase in process time will reduce contrast some. Asa seems about 2 so do a little experimenting. This is a great way to get one off images of super sharp quality and nice color. Good luck , Ralph

Drew Wiley
5-Dec-2011, 16:53
P-3 and P-30 give the same results. The pro version P-3 is much more economical to
use. You'd have to be insane to use either in a tray unless you have a donor for a
lung transplant. Best to balance your studio lights with gels over them, rather than
piling up a lot of filters on the lens itself and compromising sharpness. And remember,
what works when your paper is fresh will need to be altered as the paper gradually
ripens.

LF_rookie_to_be
11-Dec-2011, 09:34
Take a look at this:

http://www.ereignis21.de/Ereignis21.mp4

eoghan
13-May-2012, 11:10
Cool but very long, these might be more manageable

http://www.ereignis21.de/Ereignis21_short_1Mbps.mov

http://www.ereignis21.de/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9441978@N04/

SpeedGraphicMan
14-May-2012, 11:56
!! WARNING !!

Trying this technique will result in very expensive testing...

This condition can lead to homelessness, divorce, depression and isomnia.

Talk to your doctor before using Ilfochrome to find out if it is right for you.


Sorry... I simply could not resist. :rolleyes:

LF_rookie_to_be
10-Jul-2012, 01:15
Guys from Cubestories project are still active (and probably aren't too worried about expenses):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvVdTH1gAY

Jody_S
10-Jul-2013, 20:59
I have just come into a Cibachrome 'Discovery Kit' (10 shts 4x5 + drum + chemicals) and a package of 8x10 paper, I'm thinking of giving this a try. Nice helpful stuff here, re. filtration- I would not have thought to use a UV filter. I also got a new package of 6x6" Ciba gel filters, which I won't be needing as I use 3x3" in a clip-on holder and I already have an Ilford set (or 2, or 3).

2 questions: I don't see a date on the Discovery Kit, but I notice they've been sold as recently as 2010? I assume the chems are concentrates, I haven't opened the sealed box to look. What are my chances of having good chemistry? The box is shrink-wrapped in plastic and looks rather new.

Also: I see people are using a speed of 2 or 3 ASA for Ilfochrome, is Cibachrome identical? If not, what speed should I use?

StoneNYC
10-Jul-2013, 21:11
You guys are crazy! I've been looking for Ilfochrome paper to print some Kodachrome and velvia /provia prints for a year with no luck and you're using them for fun experiments... I'm baffled %-0 lol

Jody_S
10-Jul-2013, 22:00
You guys are crazy! I've been looking for Ilfochrome paper to print some Kodachrome and velvia /provia prints for a year with no luck and you're using them for fun experiments... I'm baffled %-0 lol

Really? I've never printed color, so I had no idea if this stuff was getting rare. I do have a freezer full of 8x10 chrome film, maybe I should be shooting that instead. I just don't like paying $12/sht for processing.

StoneNYC
11-Jul-2013, 00:32
Really? I've never printed color, so I had no idea if this stuff was getting rare. I do have a freezer full of 8x10 chrome film, maybe I should be shooting that instead. I just don't like paying $12/sht for processing.

Haha, yea the only actual printer I know of that has any is in Australia, and the only person I know (who will share) is in Canada (I'm I'm the Us) and I have to smuggle chemistry over the border to be able to use some... Lol (but he has bigger than 8x10

jonreid
11-Jul-2013, 00:48
I had some cibas printed a few weeks ago here in Australia by the only printer I know who still does it. The remainder of the roll is mine, all mine bwa ha ha ha ha ha...

Jon

StoneNYC
11-Jul-2013, 01:42
I had some cibas printed a few weeks ago here in Australia by the only printer I know who still does it. The remainder of the roll is mine, all mine bwa ha ha ha ha ha...

Jon

That would be frizza right? Yea he's the only printer I know of in the world who still has stock lol

jonreid
11-Jul-2013, 06:19
No, not Frizza but I'm sworn to secrecy...

StoneNYC
11-Jul-2013, 06:40
No, not Frizza but I'm sworn to secrecy...

Two Ozzy's you guys probably have a secret Ilfochrome plant... Maybe it's an ozzichrome plant... Damn you!!!