PDA

View Full Version : Lens doesn't fit?



blevblev
16-Apr-2008, 19:16
I finally got a deal on a Schneider f5.6 210mm lens on Craigslist. I mounted it onto a lensboard and attempted to mount it on the camera - a Wisner-style Zone VI 4x5. I really had to do a lot of jockying to get it to fit. The rear element of the lens hits the edge of the opening. I haven't tried to take it off yet, but I may have to take the back off and remove the rear element off to get it out.

Did I buy a lens for an 8x10 or something?

Nick_3536
16-Apr-2008, 21:59
What lens did you buy?

blevblev
16-Apr-2008, 22:39
Schneider-Kuznach APO Symmar f5.6 210mm.

Murray
16-Apr-2008, 22:50
Well, it is FAST for a 210. Probably looked smaller on the web...

Nick_3536
16-Apr-2008, 22:51
If I'm reading the Schneider data sheet right it's got an 80mm rear. That's pretty big for a small lensboard opening.

You might need to install it from behind if it's too hard.

It's not an 8x10 lens. 5x7 at most.

Oren Grad
16-Apr-2008, 23:45
The 210 Apo-Symmar has a 70mm rear cell diameter (I just double-checked mine). It happens to be the biggest of the late model 210 plasmats in that respect - the Rodenstock, Nikon and Fuji versions all have smaller rear cells.

The 210 Super-Symmar HM is specified as 80mm, but that comes in a Copal 3 and is a very big and heavy lens overall - it's hard to mistake it for a 4x5 lens.

Per Madsen
17-Apr-2008, 04:32
When Schneider started making Apo-Symmar-L lenses one of the changes was that the rear end did use the same filter size as the front end.

The 210 mm Apo-Symmar-L uses 77 mm filters both on the front and the rear.

The 210 mm Apo-Symmar uses 72 mm filters on the front and has a 70 mm rear element.

The rear element of my Nikkor W 210 mm is 60 mm.

So do you have an Apo-Symmar or an Apo-Symmar-L ?

Brian Ellis
17-Apr-2008, 07:12
The 210 APO Symmar was the first LF lens I bought and I've used it on quite a few different cameras - Tachihara, Technikardan, Shen Hao, Technika, Ebony, and Chamonix. I've never had any trouble with the rear lens element being too big for any of them and it's certainly surprising that the Zone VI alone among those types of cameras would have a problem with it. Sounds to me like something's wrong somewhere but surely somebody here uses that lens on a Zone VI and can tell you if they too have the same problem. Or maybe Bruce Barlow or Richard Ritter would know.

RichardRitter
17-Apr-2008, 07:21
Can you provide a picture of the front bellows frame. It could be one of the early plastic bellow frame and needs to be modified.

blevblev
17-Apr-2008, 08:33
I'll have to measure when I get home, but I do know that the front lens cap, and the rear one aren't interchangeable. The front one is bigger.

When I said it doesn't fit, I didn't mean to indicate that the diameter of the rear element is bigger than the side to side (or top to bottom) dimension of the square hole. It fits in the hole fine, as long as it's not in the lensboard. After mounting it on the lensboard, I inserted the lensboard into the retaining clip at the bottom of the opening, and then I tilted the whole thing into the opening. It's when I am tilting the lens back that the "not fitting" happens. The very top of the rear element hits the top of the opening at that point.

I'll take pictures and post them when I get home.

Thanks.

roteague
17-Apr-2008, 08:47
Sure you didn't mount the lens backwards?

Oren Grad
17-Apr-2008, 08:56
After mounting it on the lensboard, I inserted the lensboard into the retaining clip at the bottom of the opening, and then I tilted the whole thing into the opening. It's when I am tilting the lens back that the "not fitting" happens. The very top of the rear element hits the top of the opening at that point.

Thanks, now I understand.

I had to have Dick Phillips carve out part of the front standard on one of his cameras for a similar problem with a large lens on a Sinar board - the rear cell fit through the opening, but there wasn't enough clearance to tilt the board with mounted lens in order to seat it properly and secure it with the retaining bar.

Chauncey Walden
17-Apr-2008, 09:07
So why don't you start the lens into the standard then tip it slightly with the now reduced diameter of the lens in the opening and slip the lensboard into the slot? That's what I had to do with some lens/standard combinations.

Jim Noel
17-Apr-2008, 10:49
The easy way is to remove the back of the camera, unscrew the rear element, then remove the lens board. Of course this assumes that someone has not screwed the rear element in too tightly. The lens can be mounted on the camera by reversing this procedure.

blevblev
17-Apr-2008, 13:51
I did try putting the rear element in first, but when I do that, it hits the inside of the top of the opening when I try to tilt the lensboard forward to insert it into the clip at the bottom. Same result.

I know that I could remove the rear element and screw it in after mounting the front/lensboard, but that wouldn't really facilitate quick lens changes. I guess I could just stick to the 210. After all, I'm the guy who started the "what lens would you use if you had only one lens" thread.

Dan Fromm
17-Apr-2008, 15:01
I did try putting the rear element in first, but when I do that, it hits the inside of the top of the opening when I try to tilt the lensboard forward to insert it into the clip at the bottom. Same result.

I know that I could remove the rear element and screw it in after mounting the front/lensboard, but that wouldn't really facilitate quick lens changes. I guess I could just stick to the 210. After all, I'm the guy who started the "what lens would you use if you had only one lens" thread.Where is it written that lens changes must be quick?

I ask because the shortest lens I shoot at all often on my little 2x3 Speed is a 58/5.6 Grandagon. Every time I want to use it I go through the "detach rear cell, attach board with shutter and front cell to front standard, reattach rear cell from behind" routine.

That's life, man. If I, with my notorious lack of patience, can cope with it anyone can, and that includes you.

blevblev
17-Apr-2008, 17:30
It's not just a matter of patience. I also don't like the idea of taking the lens apart every time I use it because of wear and tear, dirt and dust getting between the lens halves, and greater chances of dropping something.

Anyway, I measured the lens. I'm not sure which dimension to use (inner or outer) so...

Front - outside: 74mm - inside: 71mm
Rear - outside: 70mm - inside: 66mm

I'm uploading 2 photos, one of the camera and one of me trying to attach the lens/lensboard...

The only thing I can think of is perhaps removing the lower clip, bending the lip down, so that the lensboard can slip down to the bottom of the opening. I don't want to jeapordize how secure it is when attached though.

David Vickery
17-Apr-2008, 22:39
Everything looks proper in the photos. What you need is a lens board with an off-center hole. They are usually useful in cameras with limited movements so that you have a little built in rise. But in your case you need a little built in fall so that the lens is lower as you put it in. Taking the lens apart every time you want to change lenses is not really a very good option, especially when a simple lens board will fix it.

RichardRitter
18-Apr-2008, 05:40
Front bellows frames needs to be opened up and a sliding lens lock put on the bottom.

blevblev
18-Apr-2008, 06:30
Will a sliding lock simply fit the bottom screw locations? If so, that would probably do the trick. Where would I purchase a part like that?

I'll also try an off-center lensboard hole. Actually I think I have one that's off center. I thought it was just poorly made.