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View Full Version : Some 10x8 advice please...



Former Member 8144
12-Apr-2008, 06:49
Hi all,

I have shot 5x4 for many years but am now embarking on a long term project that I am going to shoot on 10x8....and so I'm looking for a bit of equipment advice.

Shots will be of various objects and structures within the surrounding landscape, some more traditional landscapes and some larger structures, but mostly low level.

All shoots on locations including some where fair amounts of walking may be involved...perhaps upto three or so miles on occasions but not always.

I'll need some movements (not swing or tilt at all) but a good amount of rise and shift will be necessary.

I have started a thread in the lens section regarding lenses.

The brand of camera (and lenses) is unimportant to me but of course I'm looking to keep costs of this gear down so I have more money for the film and processing!
So are there any particluar cameras I should be looking at?

Any help will be much appreciated just to get me going.

Thanks,

Marc

John Kasaian
12-Apr-2008, 07:14
You might want to look for a nfs Deardorff, which go for considerably less than 'dorffs with front swing. If wind and vibration aren't considerations the Gowland Pocket View is an extremely lightwieght monorail that could be an option.

John Kasaian
12-Apr-2008, 07:28
For lenses, for architecture I think the 165 Super Angulon would be the cat's meow on an 8x10, but it is very heavy (like an anvil!) and I wouldn't want to carry one for three miles! For the "grand vista" an excellent lens is the 19" Artar---the red dots are newer, the APOs are older both are superb on an 8x10 IMHO. They are smaller and come in #4 shutters so they have a wieght advantage over the big f/6.3 ektars when you're on a 3 mile hike. G-Clarons are also good choices--the 240mm I find very useful especially for more close up landscapes plus they are small and light wieght.

Walter Calahan
12-Apr-2008, 07:58
I use a 165 Super-Angulon on my KB Canham wooden 8x10 with great results. This lens has huge movement.

Get a used three-wheeled jogging baby stroller to push your stuff around. Saves your back. The sell pretty cheap on eBay. Get one with full suspension.

Really Right Stuff makes a great 'ground-pod' for low angle tripod set-ups. http://reallyrightstuff.com/tripods/04.html

Former Member 8144
12-Apr-2008, 08:20
Thanks for those first few bits of advice.

I'll keep this thread for the camera questions and start a new one for the lenses in the lens forum...make sense!

Marc

Capocheny
12-Apr-2008, 09:43
Hi Marc,

I'd agree with John on the Dorff... not the lightest amongst 8x10 cameras but still manageable.

Also, you might consider the a 150SW Nikkor... also a big chunk of glass but well suited for 8x10. A 150XL is a lighter lens but has slightly less IC depending on your needs.

As for other lenses... yup, a 240 G-Claron (Copal 1) is a great chunk of glass in that it's far lighter than the Nikkor 240 Nikkor (Copal 3.) However, both are great lenses.

One other camera you might try and find is a Sinar F2 in 8x10... I'm not sure what the difference in weight is but I would think it's going to be roughly the same as the Dorff? As opposed to the Dorff... the F2 is a monorail camera and has some nice features to it as well.

Price-wise... the Dorffs have been selling at pretty reasonable prices these days regardless of wether they have the front swings or not. But, John is right... the ones without front swings do sell for slightly less.

Have you checked with Jim at Mpex or Jeff at Badger Graphics?

Cheers

John Kasaian
12-Apr-2008, 22:04
IIRC, Capocheny had a 'dorff up for sale awhile back---an absolutely beautiful example from what I saw in the photographs and at a very fair price too---likely it's long gone by now but you might ask him about it ;)

I bought my 'dorff from Jim at Midwest long ago---it was one of a lot that came from a studio somewhere back east. Jim does get 'dorff's in and is a fine person to do business with.

Another person to check with would be Jim Galli who always drags some of the most interesting stuff out of Area 51---rumor has it that he gets his stuff by trading Model A Ford parts to stranded space aliens to repair their broken down flying saucers in exchange for their G-Clarons.

Good luck!

Former Member 8144
13-Apr-2008, 12:11
So doing some research etc leaves me with the following list:

deardorff nfs
wehman
shen-hao
chamonix
ritter
camham
wisner
tachihara

I'm assuming none of these would be restricted by bellows length to use, as well as the 240mm something like the 450mm fujiA?


of course (who isn't?) I'm looking for the lower end of the price scale so any others apart from those mentioned above I shuld be looking at...bearing in mind my shooting needs and hence the need for on the lighter side (without being unsturdy due to expected long exposures and often windy conditions).

Thanks.

Dave Aharonian
13-Apr-2008, 12:34
I bought a new Shen Hao 8x10 about 6 months ago for similar reasons as you. I've been carrying it in a small National Geographic camera bag that fits the camera, 2 lenses and 2 -3 film holders. Its a shoulder bag. I then have an old Nature Trekker backpack with up to 10 film holders and more lenses if I need them. It may sound cumbersome, but it works quite well, and I'm not a big fan or carrying lots of weight.

The camera itself has worked very well for me, and its one of the lightest 8x10s out there - I think - and its got more than enough rise for me. I've put my 110XL on it and a 16" Eastman Portrait lens, and the bellows have been fine. Hope this helps!

Dave

steve simmons
13-Apr-2008, 12:35
IMHO swing and tilt front and rear are essential. With those movements you can create rise and fall and shift.

Just my 2 cents.

steve simmons

scott_6029
13-Apr-2008, 12:39
The Shen Hao FCL 810 A is nice for movements and weight...price isn't too bad either. Badger Graphic carries them. Wehman's are very nice as well for field work.

Former Member 8144
13-Apr-2008, 13:00
Yes steve,

I prefer to have direct rise and fall and shift as I prefer that for the way I work but understand how some cameras do not have shift but utilise front and rear swing to get the same result.

I do not need tilt and swing in themselves but am basically open to any camera that get me the results I need!

Marc

Ole Tjugen
13-Apr-2008, 13:06
While not exactly inexpensive, I really like my Gandolfi Traditional 10x8". Mine takes Sinar-type boards which are easy to find, and are also large enough for everything - including the 360mm f:5.6 Schneider Symmar behemoth. It has front tilt and rise/drop, and rear swing and tilt.

For portability I mostly use a 355mm f:9 G-Claron instead, and 165mm and 210mm Angulons, and whatever other lenses I feel I might need and would like to carry - such as 240mm Germinar, or a 300mm f:5.6 Symmar (big, but very small compared to the 360mm!).

JJ Viau
13-Apr-2008, 13:13
Hello Marc,
Nice to see you looking at 8x10" too. We seemed to have common tastes in the past so you might be interested to know that I am happy with my Wehman. I walk with it, am not afraid to put in down in the snow/mud, etc.. and it works great with lens from 210 to 420mm.

Cheers,

JJ

John Kasaian
13-Apr-2008, 17:26
So doing some research etc leaves me with the following list:

deardorff nfs
wehman
shen-hao
chamonix
ritter
camham
wisner
tachihara

I'm assuming none of these would be restricted by bellows length to use, as well as the 240mm something like the 450mm fujiA?


of course (who isn't?) I'm looking for the lower end of the price scale so any others apart from those mentioned above I shuld be looking at...bearing in mind my shooting needs and hence the need for on the lighter side (without being unsturdy due to expected long exposures and often windy conditions).

Thanks.

My 'dorff will handle a 19" very nicely as well as a 159mm WA. I would expect all the cameras on your list would do the same but the Tachiharas are available both as triple extension and double extension. Someone more knowlegable than I can tell you what the limits of a double extension tachi is. Another camera I think you ought to consider is the Kodak Master View. Heck of a camera---metal not wood. Just make sure you get enough lensboards in the size you need...sometimes they show up at attractive prices. Not as 'intuitive" for me as the 'dorff, but it just might punch your 8x10 ticket! :)
Hiking with 8x10 stuff is fun, really. You'll soon get the hang of it when you develop an appreciation for the effort it takes and learn to pair down your gear according to the mission at hand---this ain't 4x5, pardnuh!

But it is part of the fun!

And a good indoctrination into the madness which awaits you in ULF-land!

Jordan
13-Apr-2008, 19:14
I would consider getting a hold of Hugo Zhang and inquire about one of the Chamonix 8x10's....... they look super sweet!

As far as lenses go I have a fujinon c 300mm and a Schneider Apo 240mm. I used one of the G-Clarons for a little while, but found the contrast a little harsh, however that lens was wicked sharp!

Former Member 8144
14-Apr-2008, 00:44
Hi JJ.
Yes the project I am embarking on really requires 10x8 both for its detail and look and also the format and style empathise with the subject matter. The wehman camea you use looks really good.

Marc

Michael Nagl
14-Apr-2008, 08:18
Marc -
I have a Wehman (lightweight model). I waited for it for about 9 months, and nowafter 3 months I´m looking for something other, because it just does not suit my needs as an architecture photographer (I could have known this from the start - anyway ---). As soon as I have my next camera, it´ll want a new owner.
M

Frank Petronio
14-Apr-2008, 09:21
Marc, you have always had nice equipment (Ebonies, right?) and an older wooden or roughhouse camera probably won't satisfy you like something tight and precise. I'd be patient and wait for a nice used 8x10 Arca Swiss to come along and start out right. Except they are in the $2000 USD range if you are lucky...

If you're more frugal nowadays, you could always use an inexpensive Sinar F which isn't that much heavier or bulky -- a few inches and maybe 5 lbs -- than most of the other cameras, provided you use a short rail to carry both standards and mounting block. They sell for under $1000 USD, which makes them less than half the price of most of the mid-level cameras you've listed. Definitely the highest quality and precision for the cost, and the $1000 you save will buy a lot of other stuff.

Frankly, unless you are backpacking, I think it is a wash. A heavier, more robust camera and tripod will be more stable and easier to use quickly in the field, which translates into more reliable and consistent shooting. So it may offset the additional weight and bulk penalty.

Former Member 8144
14-Apr-2008, 10:23
Hi Michael,
Let me know when you're looking to sell..if I'm still looking then it may be right.

Frank, yes I agree with you I've always liked the 'smooth' working field cameras as they have quite simply allowed me to get on with the picture making.
This project is going to be a mix of fairly close to the car, etc to a few miles off track so I need to find that balance of enough portability whilst of course not losing function (bearing in mind my needs are simply some rise, fall, shift but not huge architectural amounts, and tilts, swings are not needed) and stability.
I always did like the sinar F as far as 5x4 monorails were concerned so it would be a good choice of 10x8 monorail, mixing function with a good used price.
I'm not even contemplating ebonies or similar for this as there is no need for that kind of outlay.

It would be great to hear from anyone that has shot with both say the sinar type, weight monorail and something like the deardorrfs, wehmans, ect to see just how much difference there is in the field conditions...speed of set up is of course not an issue with this project!

I know the weights of most of the field cameras except the deardorffs, anyone know that and those of the sinar F's and say the older arca c series?


Marc

Capocheny
14-Apr-2008, 23:36
IIRC, Capocheny had a 'dorff up for sale awhile back---an absolutely beautiful example from what I saw in the photographs and at a very fair price too---likely it's long gone by now but you might ask him about it ;)

I bought my 'dorff from Jim at Midwest long ago---it was one of a lot that came from a studio somewhere back east. Jim does get 'dorff's in and is a fine person to do business with.

Another person to check with would be Jim Galli who always drags some of the most interesting stuff out of Area 51---rumor has it that he gets his stuff by trading Model A Ford parts to stranded space aliens to repair their broken down flying saucers in exchange for their G-Clarons.

Good luck!

Hi John,

Thank you for the recommendation. :) I still have the Dorff with front swings and haven't sold it since I've not found either a 5x7 or 8x10 conversion kit for the Arca Swiss. But, I do have a couple of good leads so... the Dorff will be moving on to another owner soon. :)

Best regards.

Cheers