suggestions for a newbie ...

[jeffoto]

I'm looking seriously at 4x5. I recently moved up to 6x6 from 35mm and digital, but believe 4x5 is more suited to what I'm looking at (landscape). I'm a professional newspaper photographer (for 25 years) and am looking for an escape from the news business by stepping back, and enjoying the craft of photography again.

I looked at the front page of this site and got some basic info, but it is rather dated, so want to get current ideas (prices, etc ...) on cameras. (I haven't even started thinking lenses.)

Anyway, I'm wanting a basic setup to get started with and am looking for suggestions. Inexpensive (seems like Cambo/Calumet are relatively inexpensive) but Toyo/Omega's aren't much different. Anything specific I should look for, stay away from?

Sorry for the total newb questions.

[John Kasaian]

In used equiptment I'd suggest a 4x5 monorail like the Calumet 400 series (an excellent place to start) as well as the Graphic View 2. The Crown Graphics are fun but have some limitations (OTOH they are hand holdable :) ) One of my favorite flat bed woodies is the Agfa Ansco Universal which will accept both 4x5 and 5x7 backs. For a classic clamshell style field camera you might find a used Tachihara within your price range.

But do yourself a big favor first---get a copy of Steve Simmons "Using The View Camera" before spending any money on gear. Really.:)

[Nick_3536]

Dated? Some here are using 100 year old cameras -) Prices may have changed but the other info doesn't change very quickly.

Do you want a field camera or a monorail?

From the cameras you list it sounds like you are looking at monorails?

For one moment think lenses. Not so much actual lenses but focal lengths. Some cameras are better at extremes [wide or long] then others.

If it was me I'd be thinking about one of the lower priced field cameras. A 150mm lens. Easier to haul around then many monorails. Even new relatively not too expensive.

[lenser]

One great resource for equipment and reasonable prices is KEH.com. I have found their rating system to be very, very conservative since I have bought only 'bargain' level gear but found it all to be quite excellent in appearance and function.

I second the opinion on Steve's book. Kodak also had a small book called "Photography with Large Format Cameras" way back when. It is still totally relevant with tons of info. I've seen it on Amazon in the past.

Enjoy the ride. The big cameras are a hoot.

Tim

[Mark Woods]

Although I have my Sinar and all 3 format backs for it. When I'm shooting landscapes, I've been leaning to my Kodak 2D with the TR triple convertible (12-21-28") lens. It's lighter and there's something to be said about working with a camera almost 100 years old and a lens of a similar age. I only shoot B&W (although before I knew the lens' limitations I shot a color job for "The Secret Life of Plants" movie -- and the chromes were beautiful). But the 2D is 8x10 and you may not want to mess with it. The Sinar in 4x5 is very mobile. But there are a number of clam shell cameras that are more mobile and have many more movements than my 2D, but probably not as many as the Sinar. Look around. Try things out. Enjoy the hunt! That's part of the fun.

[Rafael Garcia]

All answers above are right-on. I second the motion for Steve Simmon's book, and offer the following: Format? 4x5 is readily available in color. 5x7 is not, but is contact-printable. Lens coverage (image circle) is less expensive with 4x5 than 5x7, but if you buy lenses that cover 5x7 you could do 8x10 in many cases. A 5x7 camera is not nuch bigger than a 4x5. An 8x10 camera is much bigger/difficult to carry.

Field vs monorail? I prefer field for landscape myself. Much more portable and the rail does not get in the way of those wide angle shots. You can find old half-plate and old 5x7s cameras cheap, and the backs are easily made with parts and wood for 4x5, so you can a have double or triple format camera. My current user is an Asanuma King 1, a precursor to the Nagaoka, built in the 1930's in Japan, in half plate. I shoot 5x7 and 4x5 with it, had to build a tripod plate for it, and had new bellows made (which it really didn't need). Total cost: $140.00 for the camera, $105.00 for the bellows, the plate was free from scrap material at hand. On the other extreme, I am awaiting a new 4x5 Chamonix that cost close to $800.00 when I include shipping. You may have seen those in several posts in this and other websites - nice!

To show what my current old girl looks like, I am attaching it's portrait. It is a pleasure to use.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h285/ragc01/eager.jpg

[steve simmons]

Thanks for the recommendations on my book. I also suggest looking at Jim Stone's User's Guide to the View Camera and Jack Dykinga's Large Format Nature Photography. I would like to add that there are several articles on the Free Articles page on the View Cameras web site that will be helpful

www.viewcamera.com

Before buying a camera body may I suggest thinking about

what range of lenses you want to use
what subjects you are interested in photographing

answering, or at least thinking about, these questions will help you decide on what body will best suit your needs.

If you can make the trip to Ft. Collins for foto3 you will see many cameras, new and used, along with lenses, tripods, etc.

www.foto3-2008.com

Remember, the trade show is free.

good luck


steve simmons

[Ron Marshall]

Roughly what is your budget? I would suggest a field camera since you are interested in landscape. For field cameras the list on the front page of this site is pretty much up to date: Wista, Toyo, Phillips, Canham, Linhof are all good options.

Used lenses are much less expensive and there is a wide selection. For a particular used camera you may have to wait and watdh for it.

KEH Camera Brokers, Midwest Photo Exchange, Badger Graphics are good places for used, and new LF equipment.

[Marko]

From one newbie to another, the first camera you buy will most likely serve two important purposes - it will help you learn movements and it will help you realize the errors you are making in the process. Once you get both of those, you'll have a much better idea about your needs and requirements for your next camera.

So, I would suggest that you pick a cheap monorail camera such as a Calumet/Cambo or a Toyo. Models in very decent shape can be had for $200 or less.

As for the lens, I'd pick a modern, multicoated 210mm/5.6 lens from any of the major brands. There's plenty of them around in great shape and at very decent prices too. They are bright, have lots of coverage and are good enough to keep and use with the next camera. Or to put it in 35mm terms, these lenses are the proverbial 50mm/1.8 of the LF (although a bit longer).

Good luck and have fun. :)

[jeffoto]

From one newbie to another, the first camera you buy will most likely serve two important purposes - it will help you learn movements and it will help you realize the errors you are making in the process. Once you get both of those, you'll have a much better idea about your needs and requirements for your next camera.

So, I would suggest that you pick a cheap monorail camera such as a Calumet/Cambo or a Toyo. Models in very decent shape can be had for $200 or less.


Thanks for all the suggestions. I was thinking along the lines of the above quote - a relatively inexpensive setup to play with, get a feel for, and learn about the process. I also plan on picking up a book or two, thanks for the suggestions.

[Marko]

Another thing about monorails, cheap or not, is that most of them have plenty of movements, each of them with its own, dedicated control/lock. Field cameras usually have less movements available, with some of them sharing controls. You may not need all of them, but it's good for learning.

I found out that I prefer the flexibility of monorails. If only they weren't so heavy and clumsy to carry around... :)

Also, don't forget a good, solid tripod and head to go with your camera or you will get frustrated quickly. Just a thought.

[J_Tardiff]

If you live near one of the big cities be sure to check out Craigslist -- NYC may be a special case but not a day goes by without a decent deal on LF gear-- several monorail setups in the past few days, for example.

I scored a stellar deal on my 8x10 Deardorff just by eyeballing craigslist, sometimes people are just dumping gear...

Good luck and as one of the newbies around here I also recommend Steve and Jack's books, I own and have learned a ton from both of them.

JT

[Hany Aziz]

A used field camera may be a better option if you can stretch your budget a little. A used Zone VI or Wista (under $600 used) or possibly a new Chamonix 4x5 (700 plus shipping) should be all you ever need. Add a 135 or 150 mm lens and later a 210 lens and you are all set. There are other even cheaper options. A good Crown Graphic should be under $200 though it won't give you too much movement., but then you don't need too much movements for most landscape shots.

Sincerely.

Hany.

[jeffoto]

Well, I ended up with an ebay deal - a Cambo monorail that is broken for $82. I received it today, went to the hardware store and for $3.41 bought four screws and washers and it will be fixed.

I need to buy a ground glass for it, as well as a lens/lens board, but figured for the price, it will be a good camera to play with - especially for the price.

My next question is will any ground glass (with a grid etched in it) work or should I go for a fresnel screen? Also, polaroid back. I figured I'd get a cheapie so I can get immediate results. Does any polaroid back work with the current instant films from Fuji and Polaroid, or do I need a specific "vintage."

thanks again, this site is being a big help.

[Ron Marshall]

Well, I ended up with an ebay deal - a Cambo monorail that is broken for $82. I received it today, went to the hardware store and for $3.41 bought four screws and washers and it will be fixed.

I need to buy a ground glass for it, as well as a lens/lens board, but figured for the price, it will be a good camera to play with - especially for the price.

My next question is will any ground glass (with a grid etched in it) work or should I go for a fresnel screen? Also, polaroid back. I figured I'd get a cheapie so I can get immediate results. Does any polaroid back work with the current instant films from Fuji and Polaroid, or do I need a specific "vintage."

thanks again, this site is being a big help.

Contact Satin Snow for a ground glass. No need to spend the money for a fresnel.

[steve simmons]

any 545 Polaroid back should work

when you order a gg or a screen brightener tell them what camera you have, the dimensions from one camera to another vary a little bit

If you have not done so here are some good intro books

Jim Stone's User's Guide to the View Camera
my book Using the View Camera
Jack Dykinga's book Large Format Nature Photography

try your local library


steve simmons

[Rafael Garcia]

Did you get the long monorail or the shorter version? Mine is the long version, about 23". I think the shorter version is about 17". When you use it don't do what I did and compose with the camera front standard not at the end of the rail: I had a good photo of my rail in every 4x5 negative I shot that day! Push the front standard to the front and focus with the back standard (it will stab you in the chest).

As for Satin Snow, order it from Dave Parker, but get yourself a cheap GG from eBay so you can use the camera immediately, as Dave's glass (which is excellent and I have on my two backs on the AK1) takes a long time to get hand-made and shipped; he is in great demand. No need for a fresnel with Satin Snow, and with medium to long lenses.

Enjoy! After lugging that big Cambo around you will find a wood field camera no challenge at all.

[steve simmons]

An alternative is Bill Maxwell in Georgia. He makes very good gg's and may be quicker.

You can also try Calumet to see if they have anything in stock.

steve simmons

[jeffoto]

Thanks again for the suggestions, you all are so helpful.

I went to put pieces back together and discovered the damage to the camera is more than a few bent, and easily fixed, pieces. The front standard (the cast part) is bent, so the camera would be nearly impossible to ever fix correctly without having to buy lots of spare parts. While the entry price of $82.99 was sweet, to get a working kit would cost more than many others out there on ebay, so I'm going to send it back and wait for the right camera.

I did see something on this camera that I realize would be a feature I want: geared rise and fall (this was pressure activated).

Alright, more research is in order - rereading this thread, other threads, other info - and then make a much better, and informed, decision.

Oh, I also just ordered Steve and Jack's books.

[jeffoto]

after further research, for my needs/desires/wants I am thinking field camera.

Are there any real discernible differences between the major brands in quality/useability: Wista, Shen-Hao, Tachihara (sp), Toyo and generic wood?

I'm keeping my options open, waiting for my books to arrive and scouring ebay and buy/sell here to get an idea on pricing, etc.

Thanks again.

[Hany Aziz]

Consider also the Chamonix 4x5 thru Hugo Zhang. It is hard to miss on this board. There is however a few weeks to months wait for the delivery.

Sincerely,

Hany.

[Rafael Garcia]

after further research, for my needs/desires/wants I am thinking field camera.

Are there any real discernible differences between the major brands in quality/useability: Wista, Shen-Hao, Tachihara (sp), Toyo and generic wood?

I'm keeping my options open, waiting for my books to arrive and scouring ebay and buy/sell here to get an idea on pricing, etc.

Thanks again.


No geared rise/fall on most wood field cameras, I'm afraid. With controls, the heavier monorails have an advantage. I have not used most brands you quote, so I cannot speak of the differences, but know they all have a good reputation. For the price of a new camera it is difficult to beat a Chamonix 4x5, but with the troubles befalling the dollar exchange with other currencies, the price is up. If your budget allows it, a Chamonix or Shen Hao are wonderful, the SH being available from distributors in the US. If you are willing to put up with movement and control limitations, any old used wood field will do fine as a starter camera. For landscape, which is 99% of what I shoot, only rise/fall and tilt are used, albeit in a limited fashion. No great deal of movement latitude is needed.

I would recommend getting something used and serviceable (another advantage of wood fields is that you can modify them/repair them with some basic woodworking skills) and concentrating on some good lenses. In 4x5 I recommend both the 90mm and the 121mm Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon for landscapes, one a wide, the other a wide "standard" in 4x5. The latter has a huge image circle; it is said that it will cover 8x10. I use it for 5x7 with no limits.

[jeffoto]

I sent a PM to the seller, but would like to hear from the folks who have looked through this thread. But would the Meridian featured here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=35386 be a good first camere?

The price is reasonable, the reviews I read after seeing the post make it look like a good option.

My biggest concern is the round lens boards, of which I'd need one more of right away. I have found a 90 Angulon (barely adequate coverage for 4x5, but often used with 4x5 from what I've read) and a 180 Symmar-S ($250 in lenses) so those will be my starter lenses.

Thanks again.

[Rafael Garcia]

It seems fine, and the price is good, although I know nothing about the camera. Being metal it may be heavy to carry around, but as a starter that may not be much of a hindrance, for the price.

I make my lensboards myself, out of wood. Mine are square, so they are easier to make, but if you have some basic tools and skill you could easily make round ones for this camera. I use an adjustable circle cutter on a hand drill, a router, and of course, a saw (in my case a table saw).

The 90mm Angulon is a fine lens, very small and light. It is favored by backpackers who stress low weight. It also can be kept on most cameras when folded. Coverage is limited, as you already know.

I have a 210mm convertible Schneider Symmar (converts to 370mm by removing the front element). It is great, has a good image circle, and is very heavy. Don't know much about the 180, but the range (90, 180) is a good choice. Hope this helps a little.