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BigSteveG
1-Apr-2008, 12:43
CF and wood? I assume wood is a bit heavier? I like the specs I see on the Feisol products. The Ries look nice and fold small....but they're twice the weight snd price. What's the Anti-Rotation business all about? Any recommendations on Heads? geared v ball? Always used a simple ball for my 35mm work....I have an old Bogen tripod that came with the used equip I purchased and I think it's very difficult to work with due to the extreme weight. Although, it would make a great studio tripod.

panchro-press
1-Apr-2008, 13:21
I bought a used Ries thirty years ago and it's still my only LF 'pod. That's saying something.

Robert Skeoch
1-Apr-2008, 13:31
I use a wood Berlebach... I think it's great.
-Rob

ericantonio
1-Apr-2008, 13:32
Nothing beats a Majestic Tripod....in the studio.
Are you hiking? Biking? Taking camera/tripod out of Hummer and going for a 5 mile walk or within site of your car?
I've hiked with a Bogen 3221 + medium format and I'm faily fit. I cycle a few hundred miles a week. That thing hurt.
Next hiking tripod for me will be CF.

BarryS
1-Apr-2008, 13:33
Some people work out of their car trunks and a heavy tripod plus geared head isn't an issue. Weight is a feature and an important one if you want to be mobile and walk or hike long distance with your gear. A good CF tripod is rigid and light, and a high quality ballhead like an Arca Swiss B1 is relatively light and compact. Anti-rotation is a convenience that makes it easier to lock and unlock tripod legs. It's nice to have, but I have an older Gitzo CF without it and it's no big deal.

David A. Goldfarb
1-Apr-2008, 13:55
I think the anti-rotation legs and the short-throw collars on the new Gitzo tripods are a real improvement. They're as fast as the cam locks on a Bogen/Manfrotto now. The main thing that kept me from buying a Gitzo in the past was the locking collar system.

Ries tripods are very nicely made, but heavy compared to CF. Heavy isn't necessarily a bad thing in a tripod, if you don't have to carry it long distances. CF and wood both have good vibration damping properties.

BigSteveG
1-Apr-2008, 14:59
I'm not planning on 5 mile hikes. I would like to be able to pack my equipment on my back and climb up a simple trail or down steep stairs leading to some scenic area. The Bogen has nice features, but it's a heavy sucker. For the time I can take my Cambo apart and reassemble w/o too much trouble. So a decent tripod is more important at this time I think.

Hany Aziz
1-Apr-2008, 15:54
Carbon fiber is light and convenient. My Gitzo with the Arca Swiss ball head is also super solid. I have never owned a wooden tripod but several of my LF friends use wooden tripods (mainly Zone VI). I prefer the carbon fiber.

Sincerely,

Hany.

Brian Ellis
2-Apr-2008, 07:09
"A bit" heavier is an understatement. Wood tripods in general are a whole lot heavier than CF for comparable weight capacities. Back in the days before carbon fiber, comparable metal and wood tripods were roughly the same weight. Today, with CF being available and prices of CF having come down, I don't get the appeal of wood outside the studio but many obviously do.

blevblev
2-Apr-2008, 10:29
It took me one LF photo session to convince me to get a CF tripod. I just have to spend the bucks - they are pretty expensive.

Pat Kearns
2-Apr-2008, 10:58
I've got a Bogen that I have used for 12 years. It has served me well on short haul trips. My only complaint, it is a heavy-ass tripod that doesn't fold down short enough for me at times. I bought a Feisol last year for longer trips that require air travel. That CF tripod is one of my better equipment investments. Weigh the pros and cons of how you are going to use it, then make your decision. I think utility is more important than aesthetics.

BigSteveG
2-Apr-2008, 11:14
I'm beginning to see the utility is really the issue. The bogen I have is a #3050. Probably not made anymore. I think if i'm going to go out with the camera on a regular basis, a CF 'pod is a requirement. And the Feisol seems to have the value as well.

Bob Salomon
2-Apr-2008, 11:47
There are several choices of leg material. Aluminum, aluminum/magensium alloy, wood, carbon fiber and the latest basalt from Manfrotto or Lava from Giottos (same thing).

The best pure value in a professional tripod today would be the GB series of Lava tripods from Giottos. They are being closed out as a newer series is now available and are selling for deep discounts today.

Lava/basalt has the features of carbon fiber but in a biodegradable product (rock) rather then from a man made product (carbon fiber).

John Voss
2-Apr-2008, 18:06
Any recommendations on Heads? geared v ball? Always used a simple ball for my 35mm work...

After using pan tilt heads (Bogen 3047 and the lighter 3029) for a P67, Toyo/Omega D 4x5 and Shen Hao, and a Bogen medium ball head for a 21/4 square, I now have a Bogen 405 geared head that I use for the LF cameras. It's by far my favorite head. Since flipping it on its side for portrait orientation isn't necessary on the Shen, the simplicity of making very fine adjustments with the geared movement is a real treat. The quick release plate is also very compact and offers a big platform that's very solid. I've never used a really high end ball head that's easy to make small, precise movements with, but the 405 obviates even thinking about my ever having buying one.

Roger Thoms
2-Apr-2008, 20:01
Just thought I'd way in. I started out with a Bogen aluminum tripod which worked well for my Sinar Apina 4x5. A photographer whom I respect commented that once he started using a carbon fiber tripod he realized he'd never go back. Well I finally bought a carbon fiber and I also would never go back. That said I can't comment on wood other than I don't want a heavy tripod. I don't backpack but I do walk around a lot with the camera and tripod over my shoulder so weight is a factor

As far as a head I use a Manfrotto 410 geared head. It is a bit heavy compared to a ball head for instance, but it allows me to level my camera very quickly and precisely.

Roger

Navy Moose
6-Apr-2008, 18:04
I have a Bogen 3046 monster tripod for my LF. It is very heavy and not comfortable to carry over the shoulder. My Manfrotto 190XB is far easier to carry, but I am not sure the legs or head will support a large format camera. The head for the 3046 is a Manfrotto 3275, which is a wonderful head so far. I learned the hard way a ball head does not mix with a large format camera.

Navy Moose

BigSteveG
7-Apr-2008, 09:53
Navy,
I agree w/ your logic. Now my Bogen has a Bogen Tilt/Pan head on it and is also heavy, but seems more stable than a ball head would be for an LF camera. I also will walk around w/ camera & tripod over my shoulder and want to make sure nothing comes loose or falls.

jenn wilson
7-Apr-2008, 18:18
i used to shoot with a bogen tripod and it was alright. then i started shooting on the beach. the legs are completely trashed now. no matter how careful you are it's unavoidable. i was also concerned about the price of ries tripods, so i did more research and discovered the C600 would fit my needs perfectly with less money. i am SO glad i spent the money. it's super sturdy, super stable and nothing ever wiggles - EVER.

roteague
7-Apr-2008, 18:43
I have a Bogen 3046 monster tripod for my LF. It is very heavy and not comfortable to carry over the shoulder. My Manfrotto 190XB is far easier to carry, but I am not sure the legs or head will support a large format camera. The head for the 3046 is a Manfrotto 3275, which is a wonderful head so far. I learned the hard way a ball head does not mix with a large format camera.

Navy Moose

The 190XB is fine for 35mm - if you don't mind squatting down, it is such a low tripod - but I don't think it would work for LF. The 055XB looks to be a much better fit.

Bill_1856
7-Apr-2008, 19:17
IMO, for 4x5 the "best" tripod combination of weight/cost/rigidity/reliability is a good used TILTALL, (be sure to get the model made by E. Leitz and generally sold on Ebay for less than $100). They weigh 6# including the tilt/pan head.

BigSteveG
7-Apr-2008, 21:28
I think the tiltall is still sold by freestyle.

David A. Goldfarb
8-Apr-2008, 06:18
I think the tiltall is still sold by freestyle.

That would be the new Tiltall. An older one from Leitz or Marchioni in good condition is usually better, even if it costs as much as a new one.

Bill_1856
8-Apr-2008, 06:19
The current Tiltall is poorly made in China and unfortunately is a piece of junk. Stay away from them!

BigSteveG
8-Apr-2008, 10:54
What's the weight on the original Tiltalls?

David A. Goldfarb
8-Apr-2008, 11:07
About 6 lbs.

Navy Moose
8-Apr-2008, 13:33
The 190XB is fine for 35mm - if you don't mind squatting down, it is such a low tripod - but I don't think it would work for LF. The 055XB looks to be a much better fit.
I'm on the short side, so the 190XB is perfect for me for my DSLR and MF cameras. The 055XB is certainly where I need for weight for hiking with it. The legs are pretty reasonable in price, I just need to sell my current tripod first. Thanks for the info! :cool:

roteague
8-Apr-2008, 13:40
I'm on the short side, so the 190XB is perfect for me for my DSLR and MF cameras. The 055XB is certainly where I need for weight for hiking with it. The legs are pretty reasonable in price, I just need to sell my current tripod first. Thanks for the info! :cool:

I traded in my old 3221W for the 055XB - it is so much easier to carry around.

Ron McElroy
8-Apr-2008, 15:56
i used to shoot with a bogen tripod and it was alright. then i started shooting on the beach. the legs are completely trashed now. no matter how careful you are it's unavoidable. i was also concerned about the price of ries tripods, so i did more research and discovered the C600 would fit my needs perfectly with less money. i am SO glad i spent the money. it's super sturdy, super stable and nothing ever wiggles - EVER.

Saltwater, beaches and wetlands in general are areas where a wooden tripod can excell. I have a heavy Zone VI for these conditions, but I don't recommend it to folks. I still need to give a 'cussing' at times when setting up. I do beleive that it has suffiecent mass to ward off alligators in the Pearl River.

Peter De Smidt
8-Apr-2008, 18:17
At one time, I had a Zone VI "lightweight" (ha!) wooden tripod. I loved the big spiked feet. Step those into the ground and the tripod was rock solid. That said, over the years, the wood of my tripod started to bow a bit, and I didn't like the locking mechanisms/knobs for the legs.

Currently, I have a Gitzo tele-studex, which I use for most things, a metal surveying tripod, which I use with large format, and a Gitzo 1227 carbon fiber, which I use when traveling.

BigSteveG
10-Apr-2008, 10:53
It's settled. Just contacted K. Thalman about a Feisol. Now about the head....

mccormickstudio
10-Apr-2008, 12:24
I just went through this process of upgrading & lightening my 8x10 gear on a budget and I looked at many CF tripods, but decided finally upon an Induro A313 Alloy. It cost $160 new including center column and travel bag - the comparable Gitzo was $400. The A313 extends to 69" and weighs 6.6 lbs compared to the same size CF Induro which weighed 4.9lbs. The alloy version seemed more stable and cost about $250 less than the carbon fiber.

I was using a Gitzo 410 at over 10lbs which is a great tripod, just bulky and heavy. Also I hated turning the lug wings on the Gitzo, especially after my hands were tired - the Induro has easily gripped rubber. I considered the big Gitzo CF's, but I will be able to buy another good lens for the $500+ I saved by purchasing the Induro.

I also purchased a Manfrotto 808RC4 head new for $120 - nothing too fancy, but I really prefer the pan/tilts to any ball heads after years of using various ball heads on 4x5 & 5x7. I really came to despise adjusting the view camera with my shoulder or forearm while loosening the ball (and occasionally having it slip sideways). My new 8x10 is an 8lb Chamonix (which I highly recommend) and balances just right with the Manfrotto 808RC4 (which has a nice spring-loaded seat, btw). The handles easily unscrew to fit compactly into my pack.

Good luck!

BigSteveG
10-Apr-2008, 15:16
Thanks. I finally pulled the trigger and oredered the Feisol Tournament from K. Thalman earlier today. I plan to use my tilt pan head to see how well it suits my uses. If it works for me...no need for the extra expense of a new head.

audioexcels
11-Apr-2008, 23:16
There are several choices of leg material. Aluminum, aluminum/magensium alloy, wood, carbon fiber and the latest basalt from Manfrotto or Lava from Giottos (same thing).

The best pure value in a professional tripod today would be the GB series of Lava tripods from Giottos. They are being closed out as a newer series is now available and are selling for deep discounts today.

Lava/basalt has the features of carbon fiber but in a biodegradable product (rock) rather then from a man made product (carbon fiber).

Thanks to you Bob, I now have a GB3158 in my home, delivered today. Must say it is extremely "logical/intuitive" just as I would want from my something like my Arca Swiss, and the legs are brutally strong. One could maybe mod the bottom of the legs and put some very sturdy platform type feet on it if they really want a strong pod, but this one is very special, and very cheap at $220? I think I paid from B&H. Looked at the price of the Mountaineer and it's absurd, though the weight is nicer. I don't think an extra 1lb can bother me as much as 3X the price can.

Hopefully this is a good one. I don't have the experience to let others in on how it is, but I can say it is:

1) Super strong legs that when flexed out shown only a negative link at the section joints...nope, it's not a metal/wood three legged device that does not collapse in the same manner as this one does, so it's not to be expected. Otherwise, legs are bricks and the LAVA obviously has some major importance there.

2) Tightening, loosening, etc. is very easy...very similar to the Arca. I love the control up on the top section, at the joints, everywhere really. It's simple and easy to understand. Should do the job perfectly.

3) Looks sexy. Sure, all tripods do, right? Does a tripod really need to look, uhhhh...sexy? Well this one does. All black finish is super nice. The foam that is typical of many carbon fiber, etc. pods is typical, but the rest is very very cleanly finished and spells beauty combined with robust.


I haven't put it to the test, as already mentioned (aside from flexing the thing), but I think the weight it can hold is well underestimated (again, Bob would know best about this aspect of it)...just feels like it can hold a tank of a camera no problem. If it has any issues, it will be at the base "feet" not sticking to the surface of the earth where if one has a 20lb cam on it, you may consider having some rugged feet on it.

Anyhoo...I think the pod can handle a lot more weight than the company states it can and if it takes my strength to push the legs in a bit when in its most vulnerable position, I highly doubt most any cam up to a certain size will have any issues at all on it.

Will review it when I have the 8X10 in action with it, but hopefully these won't blowout for a way lower price and have me wishing I waited a little longer to jump on board!

mccormickstudio
12-May-2008, 14:27
I recently purchased an Induro A313 and have been very pleased in a few outings. Most of their tripods for LF include the center column. The A313 (aluminum alloy) I bought for my 8x10 was $160, weighs 6.6 lbs, extends to 68" and is solid. The Feisol tripods look great too but I found the Induro in a local shop and was convinced by the price and quality in about two minutes.

Good luck!

Bob Salomon
12-May-2008, 15:04
If it has any issues, it will be at the base "feet" not sticking to the surface of the earth where if one has a 20lb cam on it, you may consider having some rugged feet on it.

Glad you like it. All Giottos tripods with feet that screw in accept accessory feet.

Hector.Navarro
13-May-2008, 13:47
IMO, for 4x5 the "best" tripod combination of weight/cost/rigidity/reliability is a good used TILTALL, (be sure to get the model made by E. Leitz and generally sold on Ebay for less than $100). They weigh 6# including the tilt/pan head.

totally agree. I use a Tiltall for my cambo SC. I bought it new from adorama last year and it is a great value, but it is not the greatest tripod for LF (perhaps for a small field camera). I am saving up some cash for a better one.

I must say that, while it does an overall ok job, when doing still life at extensions over 300mm I have to balance the weight of the camera around the clamp, otherwise the weight makes the camera take a nose dive.