Big Aperature lens for 4x5 Shen Hao Field

[chachahavana]

Hi everyone

I am new to LF photography and LF Forum.

I like very much short DOF and bokeh created by big aperture lenses. I have a 180mm f/5.6 lens to go with my Shen Hao field and am looking for something faster with a shutter, eg, the Xenota 150mm f/2.8.

I would like to learn more about the variety of lenses in this aspect and where I could find them.

Appreciate very much your suggestions and comments.

cheers
ChaCha

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chachahavana/sets/72157600900489543/

[Sheldon N]

The Xenotar 150mm f/2.8 is a good choice, abeit usually fairly expensive.

Try looking for a 210mm f/4.5 lens. The Voigtlander Heliars are very desireable because of their bokeh, but they have been fairly expensive lately too. A cheaper option might be a 210mm f/4.5 Schneider Xenar in a Copal 3 shutter.

There are some more exotic fast lenses in barrel, but those would be difficult to mount on a Shen Hao.

[Jan Pedersen]

Another fast lens is the Dallmeyer Pentac, it's an 8" (203mm) F2.9 They usually come in barrels but can be mounted in #5 Alphax and Compund shutters.
Most of the lenses are not made by Dallmeyer but by subs and are often named AM (Air Ministry) AM lenses vary in QT It is a Heliar design, big and need to be mounted on special lens boards. I have one and use it on a Shen Hao so it can be done.

[chachahavana]

Thanks for sharing Sheldon. Do you know the price of a Xenota amd where I could find one.

This afternoon, I've bought an old/new stock of Great Wall ( Shanghai made, very rare, I even don't know it exists !) 210mm f/4.5 w/ compur 3 shutter. I will try it later.

Just check out your flickr stream, the images are Great. Do you mind sharing with me what equiptment do you use.

cheers
ChaCha

[chachahavana]

Hi Jan
Thank you for sharing.

[Ken Lee]

A 300mm or 400 Tele (such as the Fujinon T lenses) will render the background with a strong blur. With the lens wide open, you won't get any artifacts from the 5-bladed diaphragm. Using slow film and a neutral density filter, you can shoot outdoors at a high shutter speed.

This image (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/landscapes/index.html?4) was made at around f/22 with a Fujinon 400T. If I took it today, I would have tried a shot wide open as well.

[chachahavana]

Thank you very much Ken, I am thinking about a 300mm as well.

[Sheldon N]

Thanks for sharing Sheldon. Do you know the price of a Xenota amd where I could find one.

This afternoon, I've bought an old/new stock of Great Wall ( Shanghai made, very rare, I even don't know it exists !) 210mm f/4.5 w/ compur 3 shutter. I will try it later.

Just check out your flickr stream, the images are Great. Do you mind sharing with me what equiptment do you use.

cheers
ChaCha

Thanks for the kind words. I shoot with an Arca Swiss 4x5 Field camera and for lenses I use 90mm SW Nikkor f/8, 150mm f/5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar-S, 240mm f/9 Fuji A, and 360mm f/10 Fuji A.

The 150mm Xenotar f/2.8 typically sells for $500-750, depending on who's bidding on any given day. They only come up rarely, so you'd have to hunt for one.

[chachahavana]

Hi Sheldon

Thank you again for the info and the sharing !

cheers
ChaCha

[Mark Sawyer]

Hi, ChaCha!

Just a point you're probably aware of, but if you're after minimal depth of field, a 300mm lens at f/5.6 will have noticeably less depth of field than your 180mm at f/5.6. Don't just think wider, think longer! In portraits, a longer focal length can be kinder to facial features and let you back off to a less-intrusive distance, too...

[Dan Fromm]

Come on Mark, except in one situation (the shorter lens is focused near its hyperfocal distance, the longer one isn't), depth of field is controlled by magnification and f/#. The key thing here is magnification, not film-to-subject distance. In general it isn't possible to increase DoF at the same magnification by using a shorter lens. Do the arithmetic and you'll see it.

[chachahavana]

Hi Mark

Thank you very much for the re-commendations !!

cheers
ChaCha

[chachahavana]

Hi Dan

Thanks for the reply.
Can you advice how to calculate the magnification of a lens, let's say 150mm and 210mm ?
Thanks in advance.

cheers
ChaCha

[Mark Sawyer]

Come on Mark, except in one situation (the shorter lens is focused near its hyperfocal distance, the longer one isn't), depth of field is controlled by magnification and f/#. The key thing here is magnification, not film-to-subject distance. In general it isn't possible to increase DoF at the same magnification by using a shorter lens. Do the arithmetic and you'll see it.

Oops, my bad, Dan's right and I knew it before I posted. duh...

Although, if you keep the magnification the same on both the main subject *and* the background (by moving the background even farther away from the camera and subject when using the the longer focal length/narrower angle of view lens) I'd be right.

Of course with those sorts of rationalizations, I could get a job with the Bush administration.

I'll go stand in the corner of the forum now...

[Murray]

I can't recite it from memory, but if you Google 'Lens equation', you'll find info on magnification as it is affected by the ratio of image and object distances (from a special place in the lens that varies with its design).

I use the hyperphysics site, as the explanations are not too deep, and there are calculators that spare you debugging typographical errors in a spreadsheet. Once I see results, I might do it myself in a spreadsheet. It can be hard to do a reality check on numbers sometimes.

[Frank Petronio]

You also should know that actually shooting a large format lens at f/2.8 or even f/4 has plenty of challenges unique to the extremely shallow depth of field, even more so if your subjects are moving (breathing) even slightly.

You might do well to start with a very common, normal lens and learn how to shoot a good picture at f/5.6, which has a very pleasing feel for 150-240mm lenses. Especially since you are new to large format.

And you can always introduce front and back swings and tilts if feel like playing with the plane of focus, which may be more effective than simply shooting wide open all the time.

The other advantage of buying a mainstream Nikon-Fuji-Schneider-Rodenstock lens made in the last 20-30 years is that it will likely also have a good shutter. At least you'll have better odds of getting a good one than if you are looking at 1920s glass.

[chachahavana]

Hi Mark
Hi Murray

Thanks for the feed back. Although it is a bit difficult for me to understand for the time being...I will definately work on it !

cheers
ChaCHa

[chachahavana]

Hi Frank

Thank you for the good advice, I am just a bit addicted to the crazy Bokeh. There is a Japanese photographer who I like much captured a 4x5 picture with a f/2.8 lens and the result is stunning, here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/445174813/in/set-72157594489442731/

You are also invited to see my work and that's the result that I am looking for :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chachahavana/sets/72157600168526646/
and http://www.flickr.com/photos/chachahavana/sets/72157600900489543/

cheers
ChaCha