New shooter has film handling issues....

[BigSteveG]

So I got the Cambo out to Joshua Tree this past Sat. That Bogen Tripod is a heavy Mother so I didn't get far from the car. Other minor issues like forgetting to close the aperture,etc happened, but I think I got a few shots.
Issues were mostly film loading. I lost 2-3 sheets due to the slide being impossible to push back in. The sheet crinkled up and had to be removed or just came out of the holder. I am assuming due to improper loading. Wil need to refine the technique I guess. One holder had 2 sheets of film in it.
Also, My polaroids came out terribly over/underexposed. They worked fine at the house. I changed the bellows which was full of pinholes. And didn't try the new leak free bellows purchased used from KEH until I was out at the location. Although I did check the new bellows w/ a flashlight and it proved to be fine. Will try polaroid again tonight at the house.
Now how to get the exposed film over to the lab? It's still in the holders in a small ice chest in the fridge. I'm thinking unload in the changing bag into the bag that comes w/ a box of paper into the box and off to the printer?
So who is using quick loads? Do you find the extra expense is worthwhile? It's about three times the price right. Are the Fuji/Kodak quick/ready load holder the same? or do you have to buy a holder for each brand?

All answers, comments and criticisms welcome!

[Andrew O'Neill]

It sounds like you loaded the film incorrectly. Practice loading in the light with one of the sheets you wasted.


I'm thinking unload in the changing bag into the bag that comes w/ a box of paper into the box and off to the printer?

Yes. That should be fine.

Sorry, I don't use quick loads so I can't help you there.

[roteague]

I use QuickLoads all the time, more so when traveling. Yes, they are much more expensive, but worth the convience.

You don't mention what size camera you are using, but assuming 4x5 you really don't need a huge, heavy tripod.

[photographs42]

The good news is, except for the potential problem with the bellows, all of your problems can be resolved with practice. First, make it a standard proceedure to cock and fire the shutter a couple of times before putting the film holder in. The shutter won't fire if the aperture is open. When loading film,use your finger and thumb to guide the film under the rails of the film holder. Then, when the film is fully inserted, before you let go of it and with your finger and thumb still touching the rails, gently raise it to make sure it is under the rails on each side. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

Quick loads are a great idea and work nicely but only if you are using 4x5 and are happy with the films available in quick loads. I would love to have 5x7 HP-5 quick loads.

Jerome

[Capocheny]

Steve,

Whenever you insert a slide back into the holder and it crinkles your film... it's definitely a loading problem. If you look at your holders in the light, there are two guide tracks against each side of the holder when you pull your dark slide out. Your film should go under the second track flat against the back of the holder.

The reason your film is crinkling is because you've loaded the piece of film directly underneath the dark slide, or in other words, in the same track as the one which the dark slide slides into.

Do a Google search of the name, "Paul Butzi" and click on his website. At the moment, it seems the connection is really slow but give it a try later on.

Anyway, peruse his website and, IIRC, there is a great illustration of the correct way to load film into the holders. I think it's under, "Articles" or something like that. It's well demonstrated in picture form. After looking at it... take a sheet of B&W film and practice loading the holders in the daylight. Then, when you feel proficient, give it a try in the dark.

When loading film... establish an order/routine for yourself and this should help avoid loading film into the same holder twice. I place all the empty holders to my left and, when I load each side of the holder, they're moved to the right hand side of the table. Keeps confusion to a minimum.

In answer to your question about transporting the film to the lab... don't rely entirely on the envelope which held the film. Make sure you put it back into the clam shell of the film box before exposing it to light. If you don't have any extra boxes... ask at the lab and, perhaps, they'll have some. Some places do and some don't.

Although I don't shoot Quickloads/Readyloads... they sure do look like they'd be far more convenient. However, if I were in your shoes, I'd be practicing with regular holders for awhile. Or, at least, until I knew what I was doing with the camera! It's pretty expensive using these when you're first starting out.

Lastly, I agree with Robert... you don't need a huge, heavy tripod. And, IIRC, your camera IS a 4x5, isn't it?

Look for a used Gitzo 1325. They're a lot lighter and more manageable. Alternatively, look at the pods that Kerry Thalmann is bringing in. He's a member on this forum and you can contact him directly through PM.

Good luck.

Cheers

[BigSteveG]

Thanks guys. It's 4x5 now. I have a feeling it'll be 5x7 by next year. Will definitely check out Butzi and Thalman.

[ljsegil]

Slightly different issue but under the topic of film handling--how do you keep track of how you shot a sheet of film when using cut film holders? With Quick/Readyloads, you can take notes on the envelope and the lab will keep the envelope with the negative or transparency, but what do you do with sheet film in order to keep track of how you are shooting? I don't do my own darkroom work, so I have to somehow get the sheets to the lab, and have yet to figure out a way to keep track of what sheet is which when I unload the holders and pack the film for the lab. Any suggestions appreciated.
LJS

[Alan Davenport]

Steve: I agree you must have not gotten the film under the guide rails in the holder. Paul Butzi's web page is a good resource. A better one is to "donate" a sheet of film to your learning process and practice in daylight so you can see, while your fingers learn how to feel the necessary part of the loading process. I've trained myself to touch a fingertip to the endpoint of both of the film guide rails so I can feel the film actually start under the rails. YMMV.

LJ: I'm not sure it's really necessary to know what is on an individual sheet while it's on the way to processing? All you really need to tell the lab is which process to use, and perhaps +/- developing if you have a lab that does custom black and white work for Zone System users. For that, I use individual boxes that are clearly labeled as E-6 or C-41. Once you have the films back, that's when the fun begins...
I use a program on my PDA to track my LF shots. It's also possible to ID your film holders by making notches in the edge of the film loading door, which will show up on the edges of the image area.

[Capocheny]

Hi LJ,

A distinguished LF shooter colleague, John F., suggested assigning each holder a number. Thus, you'd have 1, 2 for holder 1 and 3, 4 for holder 2. On and on with each holder you have.

Then, after you've set up the shot... he recommended roughly drawing a picture in a small pocket book. Include the holder number for each image. If you're using the ZS, at this point, you'd be doing your measurements to determine your shadow and highlight areas. Jot the shadow area on the rough drawing and do likewise for the highlight areas.

Determine whether you need any adjustments in development time... include it as well.

When you get home... you'll have a good record of the information for each shot you took. You'll also know the development time adjustments required, if any. When I unload the holders into the film box... film 1 goes onto the bottom; film 2 goes next and on and on. Make sure you write this order onto the processing envelope and ask that you get them back in the same order. Most labs will be fine with doing this. And, I stress "most!"

Cheers

[roteague]

Slightly different issue but under the topic of film handling--how do you keep track of how you shot a sheet of film when using cut film holders? With Quick/Readyloads, you can take notes on the envelope and the lab will keep the envelope with the negative or transparency, but what do you do with sheet film in order to keep track of how you are shooting? I don't do my own darkroom work, so I have to somehow get the sheets to the lab, and have yet to figure out a way to keep track of what sheet is which when I unload the holders and pack the film for the lab. Any suggestions appreciated.
LJS

I don't bother.

[Hiro]

Issues were mostly film loading. I lost 2-3 sheets due to the slide being impossible to push back in. The sheet crinkled up and had to be removed or just came out of the holder. I am assuming due to improper loading. Wil need to refine the technique I guess. One holder had 2 sheets of film in it.
I initially had the same problem, too. After loading each sheet, now I remove the dark slide again and re-insert it as a quick test. I still mis-load films, but this test has caught them all during the loading process.


So who is using quick loads? Do you find the extra expense is worthwhile? It's about three times the price right. Are the Fuji/Kodak quick/ready load holder the same? or do you have to buy a holder for each brand?
I use QuickLoads on trips to save bulk and weight. To me it's well worth the cost. Aforementioned Paul Butzi's website contains a general compatibility table for holder/film combinations. Some people caution the film flatness (or the lack thereof) in other manufacturers' holders. I started with and still use a Polaroid holder which "does it all" but am planning to get "proper" holder(s) sometime soon.

[Mike Castles]

Since we all have our own way of doing things LJ, this might work for you. I use clear zip-lock bags to keep dust, etc out of my holders while in transport to and from. Each holder is labeled - used one of those label makers, code is something like 810-1A, 810-1B for 8x10 holder 1, 57-1A and 57-1B for 5x7, etc. Inside each bag is a 3x5 index card that I use to record date/time/exposure info, etc. That way when I get back to the darkroom I have all the info, the card stays with the negatives and I add additional information when printing - in my case plt/pld so drop counts, exposure time, etc. Your mileage may vary as the saying goes, but it works for me.

[BigSteveG]

I do have a polaroid holder. Will that work w/ quick/readyloads?

[Alan Davenport]

I do have a polaroid holder. Will that work w/ quick/readyloads?

Yes.

[John Kasaian]

FWIW I do not remove the slide all the way out, just an inch or three past however much I need to open the flap. If the film is riding in the wrong slots I'll know almost immediately and can re-insert the sheet (until I get it right!)

[Louie Powell]

I lost 2-3 sheets due to the slide being impossible to push back in. The sheet crinkled up and had to be removed or just came out of the holder. I am assuming due to improper loading. Wil need to refine the technique I guess. One holder had 2 sheets of film in it.



Been there, done that. AARGH!

As others have noted, the problem is that the film wasn't loaded properly. A trick that helps is to carefully flick the end of the sheet of film after it has been loaded into the holder and before sliding the darkslide back in place - just lift the end a bit. If the film has been loaded properly, it will be hard to lift. But if it has been loaded improperly, it will almost jump out of the holder.

[blevblev]

Ok, so you've identified which exposure is in which holder by taking notes, but then the problem becomes - how do you keep track of which image is which after you've taken the negatives out of the holders? You are going to take the film out of the holders in the dark, and then put them together in a tank or tray to develop them - how do you know which one is which after jumbling them together? Obviously if you only have one exposure of each subject, you can tell by the image, but what if you have more than one? It's particularly problematic when you are doing testing.

I asked this question when I recently started LF, and here is the resulting thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=32091

Here's a link to a website where one of the techniques is illustrated:

http://www.jbhphoto.com/articles/filmholder1.htm

[Brian Ellis]

I haven't read all the posts so this may be a duplicate but the reason you couldn't get the dark slide back in the holder without ruining the film is that you didn't have the film loaded in the correct slot. You had it loaded at least in part in the slot above the one where it's supposed to go, i.e. in the one for the dark slide. This used to happen to me all the time at first and it drove me crazy.

If you have the typical Lisco/Regal/Fidelity plastic holders, remove the dark slide in daylight with no film in the holder and look about an inch up from the bottom of the holder. You'll see a sharp square edge on both sides, which is the beginning of the slots under which the film is supposed to go. Above those slots is the one for the dark slide, which is where you don't want the film. When loading film just keep a finger of one hand lightly touching the square edges on each side of the holder. As you slide the film in with the other hand you can tell by feel whether the film is going in the correct slot or not (hope this is understandable, it's one of those things that's much harder to explain than it is to do). Once I started doing that I never again had the problem.

[BigSteveG]

Brian,
Your explanation was great. It sounds like an easy to follow system.