Paterson Orbital processor vs Combi.....

[BigSteveG]

Still looking at tanks and ran across the Paterson. Anyone have experience w/ it? Cannot be used w inversion, but it can be used w 4x5,5x7 and even 8x10. They only seem to exist used in the UK. Is this tank a better bet than the Combi if want to step up in format later on? will I lose any functionality by not using the combi? Going rate for these?

[Ron Marshall]

The Paterson is basically a daylight tray processor, that rocks on a motorised base. The Combi is a basic tank system. Either will process b/w film acceptably.

Jobo Expert drums are a better system, but the tanks are more expensive.

[BigSteveG]

I'll look into the Jobos as well. Thank you.

[BigSteveG]

wow.....$300.00 for a tank....I thought $80 for a combi was bad...they better be pretty good for that price....I assume the lift is not needed for manual processing? Is the foot pump accessory essential?

[Ash]

My paterson cost £15 NOS, I think I was lucky.

Mine has a little pivot base, no motor or anything like the Jobo drums (that can be used with or without motor bases).

I much prefer the Paterson to Combi's for a few reasons:
If I'm shooting less than 6 sheets it's convenient - up to 4.
MUCH easier to load (lift off the top, lay the film emulsion-up, done)
MUCH less chemicals (I use 300ml, but I think something like 150ml or less will do VS 1.2 litres)
Fewer parts to go wrong (a lid with a light trap VS a holder, a retainer clip, a lid, funnel, two tiny little caps to stop water flow)
Chemicals take a matter of seconds to pour in and out (combi can take up to a minute to fill and pour out.
VERY quick to dry, since it's flat surfaces (you can even wipe it down quick, for faster turnaround)

I really do enjoy using my paterson. I dev'd a load of film at college and had a nightmare with the Combi because I'm using changing bags. I got home and loaded and dev'd 2 extra negs with the paterson in the time it took me to load the Combi at college.

Things would be different if I had a changing tent or a pitch black room to load the Combi, but I don't.

Hope that helps!

[BigSteveG]

So Ash...you're telling me that the Paterson is easier to load in a changing bag as well as the other features you've mentioned? By the by...how's your Razzle doing? Have you shot much with it?

[Ash]

Yep Steve it's much much easier.

In a small changing bag you can load film. Below are photo's of the tank on top of a small changing bag, I HAVE loaded film successfully in that little bugger. I'd not recommend it though, it's very cramped but entirely possible.


That changing bag is 16 inch square
The tank is 11.5 x 9.5 inch, I forgot to measure depth, probably about 4inch plus the funnel of about 2 inches.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/lfpf/DSC01823.jpg


Here you can see the 4 red tabs, these are invaluable - DON'T lose them. I lost mine for a short period and when I decided to print more than one neg at a time, I tore up my room to find where they went. You can see also that I've scuffed the bottom of the tray to roughen it - this avoids the neg adhering to the very smooth base.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/lfpf/DSC01824.jpg


As you can see, slip the negs in each side corner, there is movement space, and if you fill too high or agitate too heavily the negs can slip out of place. I've not experienced this when using minimal developer solution, but when overfilling water-stop and fix I had my negs lift. Of course when you're fixing you can open the top and replace the negs and carry on as ever.

Remove the tabs for 5x7 or 8x10. There's much less clearance with 8x10.



Combi's are ideal if you like them - you have even coverage on both sides, and all the negative is submerged when the tank is full. However, I hate how easy it is to slip two negs in the same slot, or else place them all correctly in each slot, then place on the saw-tooth retaining clip and cause the negs to slip in-between the wrong tooth.

[Ash]

Oh and the Razzle is fine thanks, I'll have some prints being exhibited as part of my course later in the month. It's a group exhibition, but at least I'll have four 12x16's on public display - the only person in the class to submit images printed traditionally.

[davemiller]

I have tried several tanks, including the combi, and much prefer the Paterson Orbital, which I use on the motor base.

[Ash]

Oh dear, I think I just caused the price of Patersons to sky-rocket! I hope I can still get a spare couple on the cheap. I was VERY lucky to get mine brand new in box for the price I did.

[Ron Marshall]

wow.....$300.00 for a tank....I thought $80 for a combi was bad...they better be pretty good for that price....I assume the lift is not needed for manual processing? Is the foot pump accessory essential?

They are about $150-$200 used. The pump is helpful, as is the $25 roller base.

[katie cooke]

I'm a big fan of the Orbital, and have even travelled with it in a backpack. Light, very economical to use (just 60-120ml of soup), dead easy to load in a changing bag, and you don't even need the base once you know how to use it. Prices get silly (over 50 quid) but you can pick them up for 10-20 if you are lucky.

[BigSteveG]

They only seem to be available from Europe. I've not been able to find any US listings. Has anyone comapared the Oribital to the Jobo Expert?

[BigSteveG]

Thanks for the pics Ash. Very helpful.

[Ash]

Ask Jim, his green men seem to have picked up 5 of everything ;)

[buze]

I use the Orbital as well; I gouged the bottom of mine with a screwdriver to prevent the film from sticking to the bottom (it /will/ !).
It's /great/ for 4x5 sheets; you can use it with 150ml of chemical if you like (I did, many times, with DDX) but with reusable developers I use more like 400ml and I just rock the tray without using the base at all. Perfect development in full daylight everytime.

It also will do 8x10, but I had lots of problems doing so. Using more than about 200ml of chemicals makes the sheet 'float' and touch the two prods that hold the sheet down; vthat creates uneven development.
However with less chemicals you need to rotate it on it's base more often, and that will create other uneven development in the corners... I found it really really hard to get consistent, easy results.
Also, for 8x10 at one sheet at a time, 1/2h per sheet... it starts getting a bit on the long end if you have 6 sheets :D

[Paul H]

I got my Orbital for GBP22 off ebay UK.

It's dead easy to load (even in a changing bag), quick to fill and quick to empty. Since it uses so little chemistry, it doesn't matter if you have one or four sheets to process. I use 150ml of PC-TEA 1+50 solution or the same amount for Rodinal 1+50 to process four sheets. You can use as little as 60ml of solution.

I use it on the manual base.

[Pete Watkins]

I use an Orbital as well. 300 ml will cover the film easily. I don't have the motorised base and the agitation is a bit of a pain. I did find that 4x5 sheet film tended to overlap at times and this was also a pain so I glued a couple of bits of plastic to the base of the tank. This means that I can only develop 4x5 but it's not a problem. I have a Combi but I've not tried it yet. I've been told that some people develop 12 sheets at a time loading the sheets back to back, I havn't tried it.
Watch U.K. auction sites but try to get the motorised base.
Pete.

[Paul H]

I use an Orbital as well. 300 ml will cover the film easily. ...... I did find that 4x5 sheet film tended to overlap at times and this was also a pain so I glued a couple of bits of plastic to the base of the tank. ....
Pete.

I think that using too much solution is the cause of the problems - too much, and the sheets can just up and float away over the pegs. If you stick to less than 200ml, you shouldn't have a problem.

[Pete Watkins]

Thanks Paul,
I read somwhere 75 ml per sheet, dunno where! The extra plastic bits are working for me but that's good advice for others.
Thanks,
Pete.

[venchka]

The Jobo 25xx series thanks & 2509n reel, used, are an economical alternative. The tank also accepts 35mm/120/220 roll film reels. You would be limited to 4x5 film. However, the cost would not be prohibitive. The tanks can be rolled on Jobo's manual base or Uniroller & Beseler motor bases.

[numnutz]

They appear occasionally on the auction site. For people in the UK try Retro photographic as they have some secondhand. Quite expensive though - approximately £50.00 for the tank + £ 25 for the motorized base :(

(no recommendations other than that of a customer)

nn :)

[BigSteveG]

I've been considering both Retro and S/H for the orbital. Thanks.