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View Full Version : Film Holders: AWB/S&S/Lotus/etc. Exotic vs. "regular" Lisco/Riteway/Fidelity Opinions



audioexcels
17-Mar-2008, 20:27
So what does the extra $150-$$$$ buy a person wanting an 8X10 holder made by any of the "exotic" brands over a brand new Fidelity/Lisco/Regal/etc.? I know aesthetics is obvious and some of these exotic ones can be lighter by a tad, but weight and aesthetics put aside, what precisely is it that makes one pay $60 for a new Fidelity, but $310 for an AWB? This is 5 Fidelity holders for the price of one AWB holder.

BradS
17-Mar-2008, 21:37
I don't know and I really never even gave it a scrap of thought. All of the 100 or so 4x5 film holders that I have, I bought used. I have never paid more than $10 each with the median cost with shipping around $7.50. Mind, these are all modern plastic holders in decent condition.

Sure, I get the occasional dog in the mix. A broken dark slide pull or cracked darkslide. Even the occasional stuck so bad I dare not pull it out dark slide. I generally, scavenge parts from those throw away the carcasses. No regrets.

Really man, I think you need to obsess a little less about having the most "right" gear and just go out and shoot what ever you have!

Gene McCluney
17-Mar-2008, 21:46
The one (and possibly only thing) the Exotics have over Fidelity/Lisco/Regal, is that they are still being made. All the Fidelity/Lisco/Regal (one company-owned by Calumet) are out of production, and what you find new is just remaining stock. Calumet may have back stock on some left, also.

Really Big Cameras
17-Mar-2008, 23:49
I'm not sure where you're finding new 8x10 Fidelity holders for 60 bucks each, but if you are buy as many as you think you'll need and then buy some more.

Badger Graphic has them listed at two for $169.95 (85 bucks each). Calumet lists 8x10 Fidelity holders as in stock for $76.99 each and new 8x10 Liscos in stock at $89.99 each.

When it comes to film holders, my steadfast belief is it's always better to have more than you need than less. I despise reloading in the middle of shooting. It takes time away from my photography, and when the light is changing fast is a very inopportune time to run out of loaded holders. So, I tend to buy more than I think I need and find that's the perfect amount for me. I reload at night when it's dark and I'm not shooting. Then I always have enough loaded up and ready to go the next day.

I'm a notorious ounce-counter, but when it comes to film holders I'm willing to carry holders that are a bit heavier if they are, light-tight, robust and affordable. So, in 8x10, I bought a couple cases of brand spanking new Fidelity 8x10 holders years ago when you could get them for $20 each. A decision I've never regretted.

In 4x10 I spoiled myself and bought 15 Lotus holders (they really are exquisite), but I bought them slightly used for a little less than the same number of new 4x10 plastic holders would have cost at the time. What can I say, I got lucky. I saw them on sale and pounced on the chance to get them. Again, no regrets.

In 7x17, I have six AWB holders. Two I got in a trade, the other four were bought slightly used for less than 3 new ones would have cost. And I still have more invested in my six 7x17 holders than in holders in any other format.

Finally, in 14x17, I have six Fidelity holders. They are heavy as all get out, but I paid so little for them (as far as ULF holders go), that it was the main reason I decided to move up to the 14x17 format. I paid less for those six Fidelity holders than 1.5 new 14x17 wooden ones would have cost. They may be heavy, but they are light-tight, very robust and best of all they are mine. I'd have a hard time justifying the cost of six custom made holders at $500 each, but I was able to afford these six 14x17 Fidelity holders and have enough left over for the bellows and back for my camera conversion and a few boxes of film to boot.

So, my advice would be to stop worrying about what "everybody else" does and why they do it. Buy as many good quality, light-tight holders as you can afford, regardless of brand, and get out there and start putting them to good use.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras
http://reallybigcameras.com

audioexcels
18-Mar-2008, 09:59
Thanks Guys. I have just tried to understand what the custom holders from the AWB/Lotus/S&S have over the usual types we find/see on the market. If both do one function and neither has anything better than the other (other than weight or looking nicer), there seems to be no point to spending more on the "exotic" brands.

I am asking these questios now because 8X10 will be my GG when the camera has been built. I will not have it ready in? But I want to nail down all the things I need before I go spending too much for something or too little for something and so forth.

Sounds like the best time to buy EVERYTHING LF wise was during the times when the markets were still good per USD-EUR and people were starting to dump the LF gear like no tomorrow. Now it's a fluctuating market, but with plenty of interest in the LF gear.

Cheers!

audioexcels
18-Mar-2008, 12:01
I'm not sure where you're finding new 8x10 Fidelity holders for 60 bucks each, but if you are buy as many as you think you'll need and then buy some more.

Badger Graphic has them listed at two for $169.95 (85 bucks each). Calumet lists 8x10 Fidelity holders as in stock for $76.99 each and new 8x10 Liscos in stock at $89.99 each.

When it comes to film holders, my steadfast belief is it's always better to have more than you need than less. I despise reloading in the middle of shooting. It takes time away from my photography, and when the light is changing fast is a very inopportune time to run out of loaded holders. So, I tend to buy more than I think I need and find that's the perfect amount for me. I reload at night when it's dark and I'm not shooting. Then I always have enough loaded up and ready to go the next day.

I'm a notorious ounce-counter, but when it comes to film holders I'm willing to carry holders that are a bit heavier if they are, light-tight, robust and affordable. So, in 8x10, I bought a couple cases of brand spanking new Fidelity 8x10 holders years ago when you could get them for $20 each. A decision I've never regretted.

In 4x10 I spoiled myself and bought 15 Lotus holders (they really are exquisite), but I bought them slightly used for a little less than the same number of new 4x10 plastic holders would have cost at the time. What can I say, I got lucky. I saw them on sale and pounced on the chance to get them. Again, no regrets.

In 7x17, I have six AWB holders. Two I got in a trade, the other four were bought slightly used for less than 3 new ones would have cost. And I still have more invested in my six 7x17 holders than in holders in any other format.

Finally, in 14x17, I have six Fidelity holders. They are heavy as all get out, but I paid so little for them (as far as ULF holders go), that it was the main reason I decided to move up to the 14x17 format. I paid less for those six Fidelity holders than 1.5 new 14x17 wooden ones would have cost. They may be heavy, but they are light-tight, very robust and best of all they are mine. I'd have a hard time justifying the cost of six custom made holders at $500 each, but I was able to afford these six 14x17 Fidelity holders and have enough left over for the bellows and back for my camera conversion and a few boxes of film to boot.

So, my advice would be to stop worrying about what "everybody else" does and why they do it. Buy as many good quality, light-tight holders as you can afford, regardless of brand, and get out there and start putting them to good use.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras
http://reallybigcameras.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-2-Lisco-Fidelity-8x10-Plastic-Film-Holders-New_W0QQitemZ250221444143QQihZ015QQcategoryZ29979QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$55 each;)...call it $60 after shipping.

CP Goerz
18-Mar-2008, 20:14
Nick Nixon uses AWB holders in 8x10 and maybe other formats but only know about 8x10 for sure. I like the old wooden holders the best of all.



CP Goerz

audioexcels
18-Mar-2008, 20:28
Nick Nixon uses AWB holders in 8x10 and maybe other formats but only know about 8x10 for sure. I like the old wooden holders the best of all.



CP Goerz

You prefer the older Eastman types?

Scott Davis
19-Mar-2008, 07:53
The reason to get the custom-made holders is because you can't get them some other way. For 8x10, I wouldn't, because for the immediate future, there is still a supply of NEW, warranted, quality plastic light-tight holders. For the more esoteric stuff, like 5x12 or 7x17, where there is no standard, used ones may or may not fit your camera without modification, and used ones may or may not be light tight and may or may not require more time and money to fix than you spent on them, buying the custom holders new from AWB or S&S or Lotus makes perfect sense. At the price of ULF sheet film, I want to eliminate all sources of failure not of my own creation. Spending $300 each for custom 5x12 film holders helps to guarantee that.

As to why they're so expensive? Cost of labor, and economies of scale. If AWB or S&S had a large enough market to have an assembly line making 8x10 or 11x14 or whatever size going 365 days a year, those holders would cost $100 each, not $300-500. As it is, they're made in small batches, several times a year, and then the machinery is re-set for making the next size/shape.

Drew Wiley
3-Oct-2008, 15:12
I routinely use Sinar-style 8x10 adhesive holders for anything demanding real sharpness
(large prints, color film work). Absolutely, positively makes a visible difference. But with
a real stiff film base and modest enlargement (say 2X) regular Lisco-style holders are
just fine. I also have a metal vaccum holder for making enlarged dupes and internegs.
Ordinary film holders do not hold film flat, especially thin acetate-based film.