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View Full Version : Old 8x10 Conley bellows nail removal help



walter23
17-Mar-2008, 19:47
I'm not exactly the world's most proficient woodworker, and I'm looking for some tips on removing a few dozen tiny little nails that previously held the brittle and decaying bellows of my Conley 8x10 to it's frame.

Attached are images. The wood is 1/4" thick hardwood, to give you some sense of scale, and the bellows material held in place is a thin layer of leather, two layers of thin cardboard (like file folder material), and one layer of a thicker woven material. All are quite thoroughly glued in place in addition to the nailing.

Any suggestions? How, specifically, would you pull these nails without damaging the frame? I can't get even a thin screwdriver under them, due to the cardboard material jammed under the nails' heads.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5539.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5540.jpg

robert fallis
18-Mar-2008, 01:06
They look like tacks to me, you can buy a tack puller which is like a screw driver with a forked blade which slips under the head of the tack, you may have to tap it under with a small hammer to make a start then it's used as a lever to pull the tack

bob

Ash
18-Mar-2008, 01:25
Get a very thin screwdriver (flat head) and ease it under, make a levering motion, they'll pop out.

When I've come across things like that, they sooner fall out than stay in!

walter23
18-Mar-2008, 01:57
Get a very thin screwdriver (flat head) and ease it under, make a levering motion, they'll pop out.

When I've come across things like that, they sooner fall out than stay in!

Heh. I'm not sure when this particular bellows was attached - it smells old, and I can't see evidence of a previous bellows on the frame - which would put it at almost 100 years old. That almost sounds a little unreal though (I know it was used much more recently than that), so it might be a job from the 50s or 60s.

In any case, despite its "old" smell and crumbly nature, the glue and tacks are pretty strongly set. They definitely outlasted the cotton fabric and leather exterior.

Poor old camera - looks so naked:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5532.jpg

And the butchered old bellows. I'm not looking forward to recreating all of those pleats:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5529.jpg

Alan Rabe
18-Mar-2008, 06:46
You might want to leave them in. Even if you do get them out you will probably weaken the structural integrity of the frame. Instead use a Dremel to and carefully grind off the heads flush to the frame. Your new bellows should cover the rest over and no one will be the wiser.

John Cahill
18-Mar-2008, 07:36
I agree with Alan Rabe. If, for some reason, you HAVE to take them out, then use a Dremel tool and a micro-bit to drill, very carefully, the metal out of the hole. If it were my camera, I would leave them in there.

robert fallis
18-Mar-2008, 08:48
re my earlier post....Heres a scan of a nail puller

bob

ic-racer
18-Mar-2008, 10:09
To get the ones out of my Century view I worked an Exacto #22 blade under each nail. I used a hemostat to pull them out. I wound up keeping most of them intact in the end and re-used them to hold the new bellows in place. At least on my Century, getting these nails out was not much of an issue.

Glenn Thoreson
18-Mar-2008, 11:20
To get the ones out of my Century view I worked an Exacto #22 blade under each nail. I used a hemostat to pull them out. I wound up keeping most of them intact in the end and re-used them to hold the new bellows in place. At least on my Century, getting these nails out was not much of an issue.

That's how I do it. Work a knife blade under the head and pry it up to get it started. Then it's easy to remove. I would want to get all that old junk off there before installing the new bellows. I have a Conley, too, but thankfully, it had brand new bellows when I got it. Good luck.

walter23
18-Mar-2008, 12:10
Thanks, I'll see if I can find a nail remover. I just realized there's an added complication from the thin 1/16th" strip of light-trap wood that protrudes just behind where the bellows mounts. I'll probably have to carefully go in with a knife blade, as suggested, or just leave them in place. There are lots and lots of them though, and I can foresee some aggravation trying to avoid tacking into them when I put the new bellows on, so I guess it's just down to some elbow grease and careful prying.

walter23
18-Mar-2008, 22:53
I got it all cleaned up today (2 or 3 hours of work): looks like it was the original bellows (the wood of the frame is clearly the same as the camera's, and it is completely unmarked by any traces of a bellows other than this one).

I had to steam the cloth/cardboard/leather/glue melange that was affixed to the frame to soften it up enough to work a screwdriver under it and break it in numerous spots along the frame. Then I had to use a small needlenose to yank the tacks out. They sure were strongly affixed; it took a lot of force to get some of them out. This was an impressively built camera! As if to smite me for destroying 100 year old craftsmanship, the very last tack I pulled (no kidding!) flew straight into the center of my eye, behind my eyeglasses. I blinked, so no harm done, but the old Conley definitely tried to get me.

The carnage:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5547.jpg

Clean frame and old bellows:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5549.jpg

Tacks:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/walter2323/IMG_5561.jpg

I kept about four of the original tacks to help nail in the new bellows, just for good luck. I figure if the old Conley is mad enough at me for destroying him to throw nails into my eye, I'd better show some respect.

It's too bad the new bellows isn't going to have that old smell.

ic-racer
19-Mar-2008, 07:39
Interesting construction difference. The Century bellows was not glued in. The nails held it in place, but the bellows has a rear 'frame' made of heavy cardboard. In yours, it looks like the nails may have been put in when the glue was wet and picked up some of the glue on the way in. Glad to see the good progress you are making.

I suspect you will get to the point where you will have to decide about gluing the new bellows in place.

Glenn Thoreson
19-Mar-2008, 11:04
Ah, a nice clean fresh start. Good job!

walter23
19-Mar-2008, 11:12
Interesting construction difference. The Century bellows was not glued in. The nails held it in place, but the bellows has a rear 'frame' made of heavy cardboard. In yours, it looks like the nails may have been put in when the glue was wet and picked up some of the glue on the way in. Glad to see the good progress you are making.

Yeah, that's how I think it was made. The tacks were very, very hard to remove. We'll see about the progress. I have to somehow cobble together a form now.


I suspect you will get to the point where you will have to decide about gluing the new bellows in place.

I'm going to try to do something similar to the old construction. I will try to find a strong but somewhat reversible glue (like the old animal hide glue) so that the bellows can be removed if needed.

ic-racer
19-Mar-2008, 12:28
I'm going to try to do something similar to the old construction. I will try to find a strong but somewhat reversible glue (like the old animal hide glue) so that the bellows can be removed if needed.

That was what I was thinking. I do recall similar glue on the film holder light baffle material. I was destroying the wood trying to remove it. I tried all the solvents I had (lacquer thinner, naptha, alcohol, turpentine, etc) and nothing would soften it. Then I accidentally got water on it and it came right off!