Beseler 8x10 conversion?

[Ash]

I'd like to place a Chromega Dichroic II (Omega, Super F) head onto my Beseler CB-7. If the head is too heavy on it's own I can happily counter-weight to take some pressure off...

http://www.beselerphoto.com/img/810coldlight.gif

This appears to be the image from Beseler Photo of the cold light kit, so I'm after something similar I guess?


Adapter Kit for 8"x10" light sources
This kit includes all compnents necessary to mount virtually any suitable 8x10 light source* onto any of the Beseler 45M and 45VXL series enlargers. Cat.# 8351

The kit includes:

810 enlarger adapter casting; 810 film stage assembly, glass/diffuser; 810 film carrier; glass lens spring-loaded 810 film carrier; adapter plate for 45M condenser light source; and 45M Series hardware mounting kits.


Has anybody currently got a conversion kit or an adapter? It's very easy in theory to adapt the two.


I have two options.

1. Build a box and place the new head on the top of the box.
No compacting the head when using 4x5 only, uses a lot of headroom.

2. Use the bellows from the Kamm and place the head on top of there.
Can use less space, heighten the bellows as much as necessary, but this means using a different means to support the head. I have the top and bottom standards from the Kamm, but the huge cast metal may involve more effort to safely attach to the enlarger.


So I'm really after some photo's and dimensions of the original 8x10 conversion kit, so I can see the easiest way to mount the 8x10 head on the 4x5 enlarger.

Thanks!

[Claude Sapp]

I have the conversion kit on a 45MX chassis back at my home in Nevada. If you want to PM your email to me where you can receive pictures, I can provide them and any dimensions you might need. I will also post back here if anyone else is interested.

Best,

Claude

[ic-racer]

Beseler conversion? What happened to the Omega 8x10?? Did you wind up not getting it?

From your other thread:
... I'm sat here counting out my pennies for the Omega 8x10 enlarger I'll be purchasing and picking up tomorrow, and it hit me; I now have the capability to print up to 8x10 negatives.


What is the deal with the Kamm? When did you get that? I'm not sure what that looks like. Do you have a complete Kamm enlarger?

Sorry if you posted answers to these questions, but I have been following so many 8x10 enlarger threads between here and APUG I can't keep them all straight :)

[Gene McCluney]

Just FYI, the Omega dichro color head that is still current on their floor standing enlarger is not 8x10, it is 10x10, and I think would be too big to fit onto any adaptor designed to hold a 8x10 sized light source. I am not aware of any Omega 8x10 enlarger, just the 10x10. But I don't know everything.

Also, you know that the Bessler adaptor kit contains the negative stage, don't you.

[Claude Sapp]

I'll post more when I get back to Nevada in a few days, but the Beseler 8x10 enlarger I have uses a 12x12 Aristo head.

[mtmaria]

Hi Claude
I am in France
I have a 45mx I am really interested in the pictures of your 8x10 kit for the transformation (I do not speak English but I am doing google to translate) I hope that google also translated for you
@ +
Marcel

[Ash]

Allo Marçel! La traduction est bonne.

If Claude emails me the photo's I will host them on my photobucket account and place them in the thread to make it easier even for non-members of the forum; I found it difficult to find anything, even on apug,pnet,etc, so people who happen on this thread on google would benefit from freely hosted images.


Claude, I'd really appreciate images and dimensions, thank you for your offer - I'm waiting impatiently :)


Gene, the Dichro head *is* 10x10, so the idea is to use it for rotating 8x10 (both ways). I should have made that clear, sorry!

IC-Racer, This is the Kamm/Omega enlarger. Pretty much an Omega head (chromega super f dichroic II) on the Kamm chassis...but it is way too big. The Omega head is all I want. So I've got rid of the massive heavy Kamm chassis, to mount the head on a smaller enlarger chassis (in this case, the Beseler).

[ic-racer]

IC-Racer, This is the Kamm/Omega enlarger. Pretty much an Omega head (chromega super f dichroic II) on the Kamm chassis...but it is way too big. The Omega head is all I want. So I've got rid of the massive heavy Kamm chassis, to mount the head on a smaller enlarger chassis (in this case, the Beseler).

Ok, got it!

You may get some ideas from these links I ran across
The first is a discussion on a 10x10 conversion and the photo I posted, I believe, is of the enlarger discussed.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=9269

Have you seen this conversion? : http://www.bluegrassharvest.com/DurstZilla/index.htm

[Ash]

I've seen the Durstzilla, but that's a much bigger conversion job than I'm planning! Also the guy has a lot more skill, as can be seen!

[Ash]

Bump, in case anybody has more help on the conversion... thanks!

[Eric Woodbury]

I have the Beseler conversion w/the Aristo V54 coldlight and the power supply on the bench. It's good to keep the power supply off the enlarger even if you counter balance anyway. There isn't much to it if you are mechanically minded. You take the top off your 45M and add a box that goes from the top of the top bellows and supports everything above and most of below. On top of that sets a box that is the negative holder box. On top of this sets the coldlight. The whole head assembly of the Beseler needs to be mounted away from the chassis a few inches so that the coldlight will clear the chassis on the 45M. The new negative stage is reviewable, i.e. draw at the top for 810 and drawer at the bottom for 57. Of course, 45 negs go where they always did.

System will work with 810 negs if you use a 210mm lens, which does cover, at least the El Nikkor does.

The whole system could be made of plywood or plastic or sheet metal or a combo, depending on what you have and the tools. As someone mentioned, the V54 has very stable light output under controlled temperature and predictable/repeatable use, but for the ultimate in stability, you will need a MetroLux or equivalent. MetroLux is still made, but not for long.

It you have detailed questions, let me or us know. I'm not sure quite what it is that you need.

[Ash]

Hi Eric, thanks for the remarks.


I've managed to find my own perspective on this job, see below...

[Ash]

I took a trip down to the shed to have a fresh look on my problem. Apologies for the mess around the enlarger. It was fairly rusted when I got it, and now I'm battling to keep everything wrapped in plastic during bad weather and storage.

I have unearthed some great surprises, both bad and good. Here goes;




The CB-7's condenser head sits inside a circle (below).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01804.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01805.jpg

This circle is of a larger diameter than the lower end of the 8x10 bellows/lens-stage from the Kamm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01807.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01808.jpg

[Ash]

The Kamm lens stage sits *almost* flush (this is entirely possible with little modification) on top and inside the original housing. There are two little black plastic ball-nuts that must be for attaching the lensboard - these fasten the lower lens stage to the top of the CB-7 nicely.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01810.jpg

The problem is the bellows resting against the back metal part, and them drooping on the other side. This is mainly due to the original top and bottom metal standards that attached to the Kamm chassis.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01811.jpg



Aside from these hiccups, the bellows sit happily atop the CB-7, so all is left is to attach the head on top.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01814.jpg


Or so it seems.

This is where it gets difficult.

1.
First off I need to decide whether to use the original metal standards from the Kamm
- if I don't then £££££ to make new adapter pieces
- if I do then I need some 'reduction' metal-working done, slicing off the appropriate areas, especially to make the areas used as light as possible, also ££ but less so and more efficient.

2.
I need to make sure everything is as parallel as can be.
- The lens stage on the CB-7 does allow for re-alignment, but I don't want to have to do it every time I change something.

3.
The rise/fall motor nearly died when I tried it with the Omega head on top.

I know I know, counter-balance first you muppet! I won't be trying that again, and I hope the motor survives or I'm completely down a hole. I have two of the metal weights from the enlarger chassis, and I might see whether I can still get the others.
- I'm thinking of attaching some mechanism, probably to the roof of the shed (although this means the enlarger needs permanent placement) or building a frame onto the CB-7 chassis (even more £££ and time and effort) to take the pressure off the CB-7.



So far so good. Some proper heavy duty man-work now, but it's perfectly do-able I think.

[Paolo]

I have a beseler 8X10 converted and a chromega F head. It is easy to adapt the head to the enlarger but it is WAY too heavy (or the beseler chassis is WAY too light) to be of any use.-
Find yourself o good old durst....

[Ash]

Hi Paolo, I don't think a Durst will fit in a 6.5-foot tall shed :)

[Ash]

UPDATE!!!

Here we go!

Considering the cost of a 5x4 colour head, I'd opted to buy a 10x10 colour head (much bigger and heavier) and adapt it to fit the Beseler CB-7. Either I get the proper adapter and even use 10x8 negs (which I don't as yet), or I make an adapter as a stop-gap, but only for 5x4.

Many thanks Claude Sapp for pictures of the Beseler 8x10 adapter box. Here's what I SHOULD get if I had a few grand to spare:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/810.jpg


Of course these are gold dust and even worse they are hugely expensive when available. For the cost of that I could buy the whole enlarger!


Here's the design...

Where it goes:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/head-stage.jpg

What the adapter looks like:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/box-so-far.jpg

The two together:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/overlap.jpg

[Ash]

The 10x10 head (bottom) atop the adapter:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/head-adapter.jpg


My thoughts are, so long as I don't destroy this monster of an enlarging head, I can eventually use it in trade or as part of a different enlarger. For the time being hopefully I can make it suit the CB-7.

[Ash]

This box won't allow me to utilise the 10x10" opal square, merely 7.5x7.5" for 5x4 only.

Considering the low cost of this head, I'm happy for it to be used as a stop-gap. A colour 5x4 enlarger will cost me about £700, and the 10x10 head alone cost 1/3 that price. A full 8x10 enlarger would cost £2000. I had to get rid of the 8ft chassis from the original Kamm as I had no way of using or storing it.



So I'm turning this pile of wood...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01923.jpg


Into a 9x9" (external) box...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01924.jpg


With a 13.5x13.5 (external) platform...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01925.jpg

[Ash]

And 12.5x12.5" (internal) / 1.5" tall border...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01926.jpg


Slightly offset at the front to clear the enlarging columns at the back...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01928.jpg

Hopefully the scale diagrams look enough like the arranged wood now :)

[Ash]

Here we go, the final outcome.


This is what the enlarger should look like, sat atop the mock-up...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01930.jpg


The half completed box...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01934.jpg


The lower box and the top platform aren't entirely parallel - I messed up, but everything else is fine. I used two bolts that sit inside the box (that originally bolt up the condenser stage to a bar) to hold the thing in place.

The inside needs spraying white, and the outside blue or grey :D


The final thing...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/beselerconv/DSC01938.jpg


I don't have any shots with the lights off and the enlarger on just yet. I'll be doing that shortly!


I know of at least one light leak I need to sort (the bottom of the box onto the condenser stage). That should be fine though.

[Ash]

I have run into a problem with illumination. With the Opal diffuser at the top, there's too much shadow and vignetting by the time light hits the neg.

I removed the Opal square from the top, that gave me really nice bright light, but hot spots.

I took a moment to think about the original design (and thinking of my LPL 6700, and the DeVere 504 at college) and it's obvious that the diffuser needs to be directly above the negative, regardless of the height of the light box.

I placed a piece of plain copier paper over the neg, perfect diffusion but I lost about two stops of light.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC01940.jpg

So I've sent an email to a supplier of custom opal glass to try and get a piece cut, and that will be permanently placed in the enlarger.


Realising I had a spare Whole-Plate ground glass, I've placed that on top of the neg carrier and it seems to provide even illumination currently.

Might need to sort out these light leaks though :)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC01941.jpg

[ic-racer]

I didn't realize that Chromega is so big:eek: .

Your adapter is looking great so far! As you have discovered, the closer you can get that diffuser to the negative the less of a center hotspot.

[Ash]

Thanks ic-racer ;)

I've attached a basic counterweight system (tying some extension cable to the front handles and hanging a 6kg metal weight over the back). It's reduced the strain on the front platforms but it's not uniform and it's very ugly!

When I get the time and materials, I'll have hooks off the shed ceiling to hang the cables through and uniformly keep the weight off the enlarger.

[Claude Sapp]

The neg carrier for my Beseler 8x10 enlarger is a 12"x12" clamshell of a piece of clear glass on the bottom, and a white plastic diffuser on the top. The two pieces sandwich the negative in the middle of the glass and diffuser, and this carrier slides into the enlarger head. Can't get the diffuser any closer to the negative than this setup.

[Ash]

Hi Claude - I remember that from the photo's you sent :)

With mine I have a negaflat (?) holder which tension-holds the negative, no glass required :)

[Ash]

I bought but have not figured out how to pick up yet an 8x10 Elwood Enlarger.

I then bought a 24-case (partly to resell) of 300W PS35 internal frost lamps after reading the Elwood patent (1927) that says they work great.

The 1940-ish manual says they DON'T, & to only use OPAL.

Maybe they didn't have OPAL in 1927, or Elwood liked hot spots back then & thought they looked normal!

So I will probably need to enhance the existing sandblasted glass diffuser that is heavily blasted at the hot spot.

I considered flashed opal glass, but
1) only have an 8x10 piece, and the existing diffuser is 11x11
2) should wait until I actually have the enlarger (!)

So, I'm wondering what kind of light source is in your Beseler?


Hey Murray, hope you don't mind me replying publicly :)

The original Beseler lamphouse was a column with a light fixture at the top (incandescent) with two HUGE condenser lenses below.

This Chromega head uses three halogen bulbs (facing sideways), with styrofoam reflectors (at 30-40 degrees) to reflect the light downwards. That light then 'evenly' illuminates an opal sheet, that from what I can see is a sandwich of glass and plastic.


If I were you, get the enlarger home, then open up the lamphouse on top and see how it's wired. You could do as the Chromega does and have the lights on the side (indirect, bouncing the light) or have them from the top (but high enough not to get hotspots). Either way, placing a diffuser directly above or on top of the negative should even out the light.

I don't know anything about the Elwood, or I'd try and be more help....I'm sure if I can't be more help then some of the other members can!

[Murray]

That IS big.

Diffuser A.C.A.P. to the neg is the key it looks like.

I get 2 stops loss with 92 brightness printer paper as a flash diffuser too.

Thanks