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blevblev
8-Mar-2008, 12:43
I tried the HP Combi for the first time last night.

Question: Am I supposed to agitate by inverting the tank?

The reason that I am asking is because I did, and when I opened the tank after development, all of the 4x5 sheets where no longer in the slots that I put them in before processing. They were all floating around loose and stuck together. It looks like they developed ok, but I can't imagine that they are supposed to come out of their slots.

I can see a few potential problems.

1) when I put the film holder together, one side of it is not rigid. The side that has the nuts that you tighten down during assembly it is tight, but the opposite side is not.

2) there is nothing holding the film in the slots from above.

3) Maybe I didn't put the film in the slots correctly. I simply slid each piece of film into it's own slot, and since there was nothing to prevent them from coming backu up out of the slots, I left it like that.

4) Maybe you have to invert the tank using some special technique that I'm not using.

Assuming it is designed well, it's possible that I either didn't assembled it correctly, or there are parts missing. The directions were kind of sketchy.

I guess I can deal with the fact that it leaks when you invert it, and that it takes a long time to fill and empty, but I think the film should stay in place.

Has anyone had similar problems?

Jon Shiu
8-Mar-2008, 13:03
Hi, here are a few tips:
1) make sure you assemble correctly, with the curved sides inward on both sides.
2) Find the plastic clip that holds the film in. After you load the film, put the clip on and only push down 1 or 2 clicks.
3) Invert in the direction of the short edge of the tank so as to not to cause motion that would force the film out of the slots.

Jon

Kevin Klazek
8-Mar-2008, 13:06
There are two reasons for the problem you have. First, you seem to be missing a part. There is a film retaining clip piece that fits on the top of the film rack that holds the film in place. Second, when you do inversions of the tank for agitation, the rotational axis must be around the thin side of the tank. My method is to hold the loaded tank with one hand on top and one on the bottom. I invert in one direction, bring it back, switch hands and invert in the other direction. It is not as awkward as it sounds.

Kevin

blevblev
8-Mar-2008, 13:16
Ok, so - two good tips. I was inverting, and then rotating 90 degrees each time, so I'll only invert sideways. I guess I can see how if you do it the other way, there's more pressure from the liquid on the face of the film as you invert it.

I do have the sides with the curve towards the center.

I think I must be missing something. I don't have a "plastic clip that holds the film in." I'll have to order one - I think I see it on bhphoto
- is this it?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/135396-REG/HP_Combi_Plan_459466_Clip_for_HP_Combi.html

Renato Tonelli
8-Mar-2008, 13:29
Kevin is right: you are missing the top film retaining clip. You can order it from HP marketing.

Ron Marshall
8-Mar-2008, 13:46
When you get the clip dry-practice a few times with junked sheets. I found with my tank that if the clip was a bit too tight, or a bit too loose the sheets would dump.

Since I learned that, with my tank, the retaining clip should be pushed down three notches, I haven't lost a single sheet; but you must invert gently!

Kevin Klazek
8-Mar-2008, 14:54
bb, yes you have found the right part from bhp. I also attach it with 3 clicks so that the film is not pinched. You can feel and hear the clicks so it is easily repeatable. Gentle motion when inverting, as Ron suggested, is also key, I have never had a problem with sheets coming out or uneven development with my combi tank.

Kevin

Bob Salomon
8-Mar-2008, 15:09
Ok, so - two good tips. I was inverting, and then rotating 90 degrees each time, so I'll only invert sideways. I guess I can see how if you do it the other way, there's more pressure from the liquid on the face of the film as you invert it.

I do have the sides with the curve towards the center.

I think I must be missing something. I don't have a "plastic clip that holds the film in." I'll have to order one - I think I see it on bhphoto
- is this it?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/135396-REG/HP_Combi_Plan_459466_Clip_for_HP_Combi.html

Did you buy a new tank that was missing the clip?

If you don't have the instruction book because you don't have a new tank let me know your email address and we will email you the instructions.

Patrik Roseen
8-Mar-2008, 16:23
I have been recommended and use the agitation method of the 'falling leaf' i.e. not necessarily turning the tank up side down, but rather wiggling it back and forth like a leaf falling trough the air.

People usually complain about the time it takes to fill up the tank and I use the method following this link. Both taps should be open while filling.

a way to fill the combiplan tank faster than normal (http://www.photax.se/mrkr/dsr/combiplan.htm)

blevblev
8-Mar-2008, 18:09
I did recently buy a new one new from either Calumet or Adorama - I can't remember which (I'd have to go fishing to find the receipt.) I do have the instructions - it was a little hard to follow concerning the assembly.

Bob Salomon
8-Mar-2008, 18:26
I did recently buy a new one new from either Calumet or Adorama - I can't remember which (I'd have to go fishing to find the receipt.) I do have the instructions - it was a little hard to follow concerning the assembly.

There should be no assembly required except to screw in the two Light Tight Hose Connectors and put the caps on them. If you bought a new tank and it did not have the clip call us at 800 735 4373 and we will send you one. You do have the funnel and the loader guide correct?

blevblev
8-Mar-2008, 20:03
In the kit I got, I had to assemble the rack/negative carrier too - no?

Anyway, I have the funnel. My darkroom isn't dark enough for film, so I'm having to use the tank in a "Photoflex Changing Room" - a large rigid changing bag - and the guides fell off almost immediately and wouldn't stay on. I'm pretty good with my hands, though, and had no problem feeling the slots for the film, so the guides weren't necessary.

Actually I was re-reading the instructions and it makes a lot more sense when you realize that there's a part missing!!!!

I'll call on Monday for the missing piece - thanks a lot.

blevblev
10-Mar-2008, 13:28
Re: "People usually complain about the time it takes to fill up the tank and I use the method following this link. Both taps should be open while filling."

I was going to say, "I don't speak Swedish" but I see what's happening from the illustration. So instead of filling from the 'official' top of the tank, you fill from the side (which is on top now because you put it on it's side) and open the other spout (the official top, which is now on the side). I assume that the other spout is high enough so that when you fill it (I'm using 1 liter as per another thread) none will spill out?

A couple of points that I got from Bob Salomon at HP when I called:

1) The proper method of inverting the tank is to simply turn it upside down, and wait for it to stop gurgling. Then turn it back over and wait again. The tank is designed to work this way, and no other method will give even results.

Do this how ever many times necessary to take up an agitation interval. That is, if you are supposed to agitate for 30 seconds, invert it, wait for it to stop making noise, invert it back, wait again, etc. however many times for it to add up to 30 seconds.

2) I metioned above that one side of my film holder was not very rigid. Bob suggested that I reverse either the top or the bottom of the holder which allows you to put one nut on each side (instead of both on one side.) That will make both sides more rigid.

Bob Salomon
10-Mar-2008, 14:03
Re: "People usually complain about the time it takes to fill up the tank and I use the method following this link. Both taps should be open while filling."

I was going to say, "I don't speak Swedish" but I see what's happening from the illustration. So instead of filling from the 'official' top of the tank, you fill from the side (which is on top now because you put it on it's side) and open the other spout (the official top, which is now on the side).

This is really not a good idea if you are filling the tank with film in it. Around the top inside edge of the tank is a track with cutouts. This directs the chemistry along the sides of the tank so it does not splatter onto the film while filling. The side plug does not have any guard against splattering.

Patrik Roseen
10-Mar-2008, 14:15
Bob, I guess from a Combi-plan design point of vew you might be right. But I think many with me has found that this works very well and that this technique will release the air out of the tank faster, hence fill up faster.

In my case I dilute the chemistry as much as I can, e.g. FX-39 1:19 (1200ml), 18 minutes at 20C for 100TMX (exposed at EI100) agitation first 30seconds and then every minute. Works great, and I fill with film in it.

I have never understood this splattering technique, rather heard people complain that it takes too long the normal way and that this cause uneven development.

As for agitation I turn it the normal way as soon as the tank is filled, so there is nothing strange in that. It's only the 'filling' that is different.

BTW, maybe the lid should have had two plugs in the first place, one for filling and one to let the air out!

Bob Salomon
10-Mar-2008, 15:30
Patrick,

The tank takes the same amount of chemistry regardless of if it is standing upright or laying with the bottom hose connector up.

The filling time should be the same for the same amount of chemistry going into the same tank with the same hose connectors. The two of them are identical.

But you do have to open the air path on the top one while filling it.

Bob Salomon
10-Mar-2008, 15:31
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon - HP Marketing;328159]Patrick

Sorry I used the English spelling of your name out of force of habit.

Nick Kanellos
12-Mar-2008, 12:42
There should be no assembly required except to screw in the two Light Tight Hose Connectors and put the caps on them. If you bought a new tank and it did not have the clip call us at 800 735 4373 and we will send you one. You do have the funnel and the loader guide correct?

Hmmm... I just tried the number 800 735 4373 from Canada. I get a "This number is Not in Service" message. Is there another non-800 number? I have a Combi-Plan and that clip is broken. You just reminded me that I need to order a replacement.

Nick

Bob Salomon
12-Mar-2008, 13:30
Hmmm... I just tried the number 800 735 4373 from Canada. I get a "This number is Not in Service" message. Is there another non-800 number? I have a Combi-Plan and that clip is broken. You just reminded me that I need to order a replacement.

Nick

973 808-9010. As we do not sell or market outside the USA our 800 number is only for use within the USA.

However we do not ship to Canada. Many of our dealers do. The catalog number for the clip is 459416. List is US $8.00.

We can ship it to you if you have an US mailing address.