Wanting to dip my toes into the LF pond...

[BigSteveG]

Now have my enlarger set up for 4x5 (Durst Pro...any other users out there?) and small format. So I'm looking at cameras and wondering whether to buy new or used. I'd love one of those pretty Ebony's (not too many used models out there...a good sign I think), but since I've never shot the format am a little apprehensive to put major $ into that camera. I also wonder what the utility of a high end camera like that would be since I plan to use the camera for (1) landscape, (2) portraits and (3) a little architecture now and again, primarily exterior shots, if that. I don't feel as if I know enough to purchase used. But I have a seen a few nice Wisners out there. What to look for in a used camera? Do I need levels and a rotating back? Light tightness obviously. Mechanical operation....and cosmetics I suppose. Would I be better of buying a new Tachihara or Shen-Hao? I read the Shen is a little more solid...true? pros and cons of these models from users? Lenses: I see no reason to buy new.....what's the big deal about the Dagor? Is this a "signature" type lens as opposed to an "all around" user? I see coated and un-coated versions. I suppose the coated will give more contrast...less flare....going price of a coated 6in Dagor? Any sense in buying used film holders? what should I look for? I can them for $3 each here and don't want to buy if they are bad for some reason.
Anyhoo.....I'm just looking for some advice....I appreciate any you all could provide.

[rippo]

well that's a lot of questions! and i'm qualified to answer very few of them. but i'll answer what i can, if nothing more than to bump the post up to the top again.

sounds like you need a field camera that's portable, rather than a monorail.

monorails can be cheaper however, especially used. that's what i have (i've had two). if you had put architecture in your list first, and/or mentioned interiors, i'd say you need a monorail with all the movements. but landscapes don't need as much flexibility, but they do require that your camera not break your back on long hikes.

for portraits, you often need a long bellows extension to focus up close. field cameras can be lacking in that area, but monorails generally will get pretty far out. that and still lifes.

dagor, smagor. ignore those people until you know what you're doing. start with an inexpensive 210mm lens and see what you can do. unless of course you've got money tor burn, in which case get a 90mm and 150mm lens too, and see what they can do. remember, lenses are a major part of the LF expense...er, experience.

$3 for holders! buy as many as you can. i'm happy when i see them for $5 or $10 around here. unless it's really trashed, you can't tell a bad holder from a good one until you've tried it. but for $3 ea, it'd be worth it to have a few bad ones in the bunch.

rotating back is a big plus for me. i do a lot of portraits, and having a camera stuck in landscape position, or requiring me to tilt the tripod, would drive me nuts. however if you're out in the field, you may not need to switch as much, and you might not want the added weight.

levels are helpful. but you can always buy one and stick it on, or bring a small hardware-store level. doesn't have to be built into the camera. i find that i still rely on a gridded ground glass more than the level anyway...it seems more precise.

if you haven't done this before, buy used (again, unless you've got silly amounts of money looking for a home). you can always sell and upgrade if you find you like it. but start with the basics.

btw, i haul my monorail around for landscapes, although it's so heavy that i don't get far from the car. 1/2 mile probably. but it can be done, and is a good way to learn on the cheap.

[Ron Marshall]

LF gear is easy to re-sell with little money lost, so I recommend that you buy used. Like many people here, including myself, you may not stay with your original kit. Every camera has pros and cons; once you have shot a hundred or so sheets you will get a feel for the equipment and know what features are important to you.

I advise you to get a reasonably cheap camera and one lens to begin. By cheap, I don't mean a piece of junk, it must be something fairly easy to use or you may give up on LF.

KEH Camera brokers, Badger Graphics and Midwest Photo are good places to buy new or used (KEH mostly used but good deals). Also this site, APUG and the Azo forum.

If you have not already, read the camera reviews on the front page of this site:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html

Good luck!

[Capocheny]

Steve,

Before buying ANY camera... do some reading/research. I'd highly recommend the following:

1. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

2. View Camera - Steve Simmons

3. Large Format Photography & Landscape - Jack Dykinga

4. View Camera - Jim Stone

You'll get all sorts of recommendations on the kinds of cameras to buy ranging from Speed Graphics to Dorffs to Wisners to Technikas to Canhams to Kodaks to various monorails (Sinars, Linhofs, Arca Swiss.) In general, you won't need a LOT of movements for landscape photography but you will need more for architecture and table-top shooting.

You've mentioned the field cameras Ebony, Shen-Hao, and Tachihara... in the same category of cameras, don't forget to consider the Chamonix.

I've bought both used and new film holders... just make sure they're light-tight if you're buying used.

Buying new or used is going to be solely dependent on your financial resources. But, you can certainly get some helpful suggestions from retailers such as:

1. Jim at Midwest (http://www.mpex.com)

2. Jeff at Badger Graphics (http://www.badgergraphic.com)

Ebay has lots of listings for used gear and, if you follow the completed sales for awhile, you'll get a sense of what things are selling for.

You've asked a LOT of questions... I'd suggest you start with the above and continue doing some research on your own.

Last suggestion... you can certainly find an inexpensive camera to start out with. Then, you can decide on further gear if you enjoy shooting LF.

Just my 2 cents worth! :)

Good luck

Cheers

[BarryS]

Yes, by all means buy used. I've noticed that used large format gear tends to be in pretty good condition--at least compared to medium format gear. Probably because a lot of MF gear got used hard as bread and butter pro cameras. Even the pro-owned LF stuff seems like it was taken care of and sometimes never left the studio. The other thing about LF is accepting the fact you may need to try gear on for size and then sell pieces to arrive at a kit that suits you. This seems pretty normal, so by purchasing used gear, you can usually recover most of what you originally spend. Finally, if you're looking for specific pieces of gear, post a WTB ad in the classifieds here. The folks on this forum own every piece of LF gear you can imagine (as well as everything you can't) and are continually selling off and buying other pieces.

[cyrus]

Buying new is silly considering the perfectly usable LF gear that's being literally dumped on the market by the gone-digital crowd, especially if you're only dipping a toe. I say get a press camera and a couple of holders, and have some fun. See where that takes you.

[BigSteveG]

Thanks to fine bunch here! You've given me the confidence to buy used AND cheap. So I shall!! I look forward to more on this forum.

[Ash]

Look on auction sites or anywhere local that might have a cheap field camera.

To get started you don't need the best or most expensive, or the most versatile, kit. It's better to get a camera and use it and learn what you want to do.

I started by buying a Half-Plate, thinking I'd get a 4x5 back or shoot 5x7. I restored it after sitting on it for a year, and I never use it. The monorail I bought and used as my first proper 4x5 didn't see much because of it's weight, so I sold it on at a bit of a loss, but not much - I consider the loss as 'renting' :)

I'd recommend going for a field camera, that's what I have and use. I should have saved and got one in the first place. There's nothing wrong with second hand gear.


As for lenses, get yourself something like the 150mm, doesn't need to be expensive either, something that has a reliable shutter and works.


So,

1. Camera - used, good condition
2. Lens - 150mm, something reliable and reasonably priced.
3. Tripod - Good quality and best to go for something of a higher price than you had in mind. You need it to be portable and be strong.
4. Film holders you know about.
5. Light meter, you should already have.
6. Dark cloth. Use a jacket to begin with.
7. Film.


You might find a used Speed Graphic is perfect to begin with. They are small, compact, light, and highly portable. I managed to get a 10" (255mm) lens to focus on my Anniversary Speed Graphic, but it's not recommended!

[Ron Marshall]

One thing not to scrimp on is the tripod. It obviously must be solid, but carbon fiber for lightness is worthwhile.

I highly recommend Feisol tripods. One of the members on this site is the US distributor: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=33714&highlight=feisol

[Stephen Willard]

Aside form all the gear there a psychological hurdle to overcome. Everything is very very manual. It took me over a month to calibrate my camera with my chemical process and actually make an image. I made every mistake in the book. Now I can do it blind folded. And when you look through the ground glass, be prepared to see your world flipped and turned upside down. My first shot in the mountains was a real complicated one, and I was unable to figure out what I was even looking at on the ground glass much less take an meaningful photograph. I started to cry at 40 years of age over my frustration. And the list goes on from there.

However, if you have the balls to stick with it, it can become the most endearing and passionate thing you will ever do. I now find it absolutely intoxicating. There is no equal to it. With LF photography there is no such thing as dipping your tosies into the pond. It is all or nothing. So take the jump and scream halleluiah as you plunge into the deep blue ocean of LF photography.

[BigSteveG]

Ahh...Willard thanks for your support....Often cry over loading film reels myself....Looks like I'm in fine company!!!!!

[Ernest Purdum]

One frequent new buyer mistake is getting a lens which has inadequate coverage for movements. Examples are the 127 and 135mm f4.5 types often found on Crown Graphics, etc. These are good lenses, but if one is your only lens and you need a good bit of rising front, they are frustrating.

[Capocheny]

One thing not to scrimp on is the tripod. It obviously must be solid, but carbon fiber for lightness is worthwhile.

I highly recommend Feisol tripods. One of the members on this site is the US distributor: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=33714&highlight=feisol

Fully agree with Ron's comment and recommendation... get a good, solid tripod and save yourself lots of grief!

The seller, Kerry, is a great fellow to deal with... IMHO, first class all the way.

Cheers

[steve simmons]

Here is some additional reading

any of the articles in the Free Articles section of the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com


steve simmons

[John Kasaian]

If you are unsure, why not make a pinhole camera to play with while you're reading all the good stuff Capocheny and Steve Simmons suggested? Shoot film and you can put your new enlarger through it's paces as well. :)