Four dollars a gallon.

[Robert Brummitt]

Photographer Ruth Bernhard had always stated that the best photographs were those taken thirty feet from your front door. Imogen Cunningham also did a lot of photography that was either close to home or ”In the neighborhood”. And Photographer Ansel Adams did a lot of traveling for his personal photography; Edward Weston did some limited traveling, when he had the funds. But he also had the best place to photograph, Point Lobos, Calif. To date, I believe many of us do a lot of driving and flying for our photography. This is part of being a photographer, I would suspect.
I had just read that the forecast of gas prices might hit four dollars a gallon and I would like to hear from you if you plan to do any traveling? Do you plan to take fieldtrips, workshops, attend photography events or do you plan to stay close to home and plan day trips. If you are planning to travel. How? By car, plane or train. How far? Do you plan to stay closer to your home area or go out?
When I photograph, I find that I usually work by myself. Not that I’m anti-social but photography is a private time for me. I like to look, see, study what I’m photographing and then take my time. A rush photograph looks just like that rushed. I never go with my wife or kids. They just don’t get it. “It’s hurry, hurry hurry. We want to go.”
I do once in awhile go with other photographers because I also do enjoy the comradely of what we do. I don’t do much photography then and do more talking shop or listening to stories of my companions. Different aspect of photography but just as important to me.
So, my next question to you is. Do you think with the coming price costs, do you see doing more carpooling?
I would like to know what you have to say and share on this subject. I do see myself curtailing my outings to certain times, locations and destinations. What do plan to do?

[cotdt]

you can't take pictures with a view camera while moving in a car, so i don't understand what the gas price has to do with it. it's more worthwhile to walk to distant lands and take pictures on a tripod. a lot less motion blur than from a car.

[JonathanPerkins]

Well we are currently paying the equivalent of around $8.30/US Gallon here in the UK. There's a lot of folks here who would dream of $4/Gallon!

[Jerzy Pawlowski]

So, my next question to you is. Do you think with the coming price costs, do you see doing more carpooling?
I would like to know what you have to say and share on this subject. I do see myself curtailing my outings to certain times, locations and destinations. What do plan to do? Increase prices for my products and charge more for my services.


Well we are currently paying the equivalent of around $8.30/US Gallon here in the UK. Ya, but you don't use real cars. (Sorry could not help, it's obviously joke, this morning I watched few minutes of Mr. Bean and his three-wheeler)

[butterflydream]

I want to buy a mule.

[JonathanPerkins]

Ya, but you don't use real cars. Actually you're not too far off the truth there :) - this is my little car, but of course I'd argue that all the other cars aren't real...:D

[Doug Dolde]

It's already $3.29 for a gallon of regular. $4.00 is another 20% or so. You make it sound like it's already cheap and going to be REALLY expensive.

[lostcoyote]

americans can expect to pay $5/gal by xmas 2008.
(that's my prediction)

[Ron Bose]

Actually you're not too far off the truth there :) - this is my little car, but of course I'd argue that all the other cars aren't real...:D

I would love a Caterham 7, but in Canada it would be a complete waste of time and dangerous too ... oh for the country roads back in England ...

[Daniel_Buck]

the difference between $2 a gallon and $4 a gallon won't make much difference on relatively close locations (locations within a few hundred miles), being that most cars can get 300 miles to the tank, the difference of a few dollars per gallon on a tank or two isn't a deal breaker. Considering most of us spend several dollars per shot in film alone. I like to travel within a few hundred miles. I would travel more, but I don't usually get more than one day off at a time, so I'd rather spend my time hiking and photographing closer locations, than driving 500 miles. My mustang gets about 14mpg, but if I had the time I wouldn't hesitate to take a long trip. I'm fortunate enough to live next to mountains, deserts, oceans, and hills all within 100 miles or so. :-D

[Kuzano]

[QUOTE Ya, but you don't use real cars. (Sorry could not help, it's obviously joke, this morning I watched few minutes of Mr. Bean and his three-wheeler)[/QUOTE]

Interesting US response (said smilingly), and particularly the reason why all the other countries of the world have always driven Unreal Small Cars, rather than the behemoths that plug the highways and byways of the Newnited States. Born and raised in the US, and having pumped "under $1 a gallon" gas as a youth, I have always favored foreign automobiles (read small and thrifty here).

Frankly, it's going to be interesting to see the life style changes in our country as fuel prices wend their way up to the $8 and more that the rest of the world pays. Also, we can push our RV's and 4 Wheel Drive glut into the ocean to provide marine life habitat and replenish the reefs that they are killing, AFTER we drain the precious fossil fluids from the innards.

RE: the original post and the question. I am sure that I can continue to get to the places I choose to photograph in small vehicles (such as Citroen 2CV's unreal as they may be) and by foot, or by pooling resources. I have never owned a 4WD vehicle, even though I live where men are men and the sheep are nervous. It has never stopped me from getting up into the highlands, or out into the desert.

If it only appears implied that I feel that American's are only getting their just desserts, let me make it abundantly clear. That is exactly how I feel.

[Kuzano]

Actually you're not too far off the truth there :) - this is my little car, but of course I'd argue that all the other cars aren't real...:D

And my personal favorite was a "bugeye Sprite" followed by an Alfa Giulietta Spyder, both at 40plus MPG, driven sanely.

Nice 7.

[Charles Carstensen]

I just returned from a 2500 mile trip to Los Angeles, Phoenix, Tucson, Albuquerque. At every gas stop I thought what the heck, Seeing the scenery and experiencing the travel is worth every penny. I may not feel that way when the bill arrives.

[Brian Sims]

$4.00 a gal. Then $5. Get ready for Peak Oil (see Hubbert) when discovery of new reserves is less than the pace of exhausting reserves. 50 years from now, we won't dream of burning the precious stuff. Also get ready for the decline of suburbia...an urban design heavily dependent on cheap oil.

The best way to cope is bring a couple fellow LF'ers along with you....cuts $4.00 gas to $1.33. Maybe we should have a "ride-share" section to the forum.

[Doug Dolde]

Dubya said he ain't heared nothin about foh-dolla gas. Guess he don't pump his own.

[Kirk Keyes]

There's a lot of folks here who would dream of $4/Gallon!

There's a lot of folks around here that would have nightmares about being on an island the size of Minnesota. ;^)

Actually, I'd love to have a Lotus Super 7, or even a Caterham. I once drove a 1965 Super 7 - and I hope to own one someday.

I've also driven a Lotus 30 - racing gas for that was a lot more than $4/gallon. I only got about 40 miles in it, and I hope to drive it again someday.

http://www.lotus30.com/Resources/SiteGraphics/123%20cover%20art%20425H.jpg

www.lotus30.com

[roteague]

I get bored shooting too close to home too often.

[thetooth]

the high gas prices will not tone down my excursions much , but it will affect things like how often i go see a movie or go out to dinner . i will curb other activities before i let it affect what i enjoy to do with my free time .

[kev curry]

Heres another - BRITISH - reality check from the price of my last visit to the Diesel pump to fill up the VW Transporter.............. You might want to be sitting comfortably for this news......72.58 litres of Diesel came to a Grand Total of 76.14GBP! Thats almost 1.05GBP per liter...... or look at it another way thats 2 US DOLLARS PER LITRE!!!!!!!

Scary stuff eh!!
kev

[Dick Hilker]

Since all of my photo safaris are day trips and 200 mi. would be typical mileage, the Audi's 25 mpg. means that another $1/gal. would add $8 to the cost of the day's fun -- not enough to keep thousands of dollars worth of gear in the closet and spoil the enjoyment of something that means so much.

If our do-nothing-worthwhile Congress were to pass a sensible energy bill allowing the exploration and drilling of the oil-rich areas in this country, we wouldn't be beholden to the international cartels and could once again be the masters of our own energy destinies.

The ANWR area of interest for exploration is a postage-stamp piece of land the size of Dulles Airport in the midst of a vast wilderness. The Chinese are drilling for oil almost within swimming distance of Florida. Unfortunately, our political prospects for real change are dimming every day as we move closer to the election and the likelihood of any courageous action in the foreseeable future is disappearing. And, as always, the oil companies will be blamed for it.

[Don Wilkes]

I just did a quick calculation... The price of gas here in Victoria, BC, Canada, is currently $1.139 cents/litre, which has been fairly constant for the past month. That would be about US$ 4.35 per US gal.

To keep the excess poundage (and my blood pressure) to a minimum, I walk to work in the morning (5km, or 3 miles) and take the bus home at night. So, most of my driving is either to the grocery store, the golf course, or my favourite nearby forest for a 4x5 workout with some Provia. So, I don't worry about the cost of gas all that much.

As for the Super 7, one of my friends has had one for 20 years or so. The back roads around here are just as hilly and twisty as I think you'd find in England, and it probably rains about the same amount :}

Cheers,
\donw

[Alan Davenport]

Well we are currently paying the equivalent of around $8.30/US Gallon here in the UK. There's a lot of folks here who would dream of $4/Gallon!

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's my understanding that the price you pay in the UK includes lots of taxes that go toward underwriting mass transit (i.e., rail) which means folks in the UK have an alternative (sort of.) We have no such public support of rail in the US, with the result that there is no viable alternative to private vehicles (outside of a limited number of metropolitan areas.) Factor in the greatly increased distances in the US vs UK, and the cost to get from point A to point B probably averages out. Myself, I'd gladly pay more tax if I thought anything good would come of it, but sad experience indicates that would be unlikely.

The root cause of the energy prices we're all paying, is the commodities market. Before rich people started gambling on the price of energy futures (around 1978 I think) the price for oil was at least predictable, and was set by OPEC. Now OPEC can set any price they like and it won't even approach what we're ultimately forced to pay, thanks to 1/3 of the price going into the pockets of speculators who never add a single thing (of value) to the economy of the nations.

[Andrew O'Neill]

We are paying $1.20 per litre here in Canada. So I think we are already paying more than Americans. Get used to it. That's the way we are heading.
Hey, I just heard on the radio about an engine that'll run on compressed air. Will go 1000km before needing more air. I think the top speed it 97km/hr.

[Joanna Carter]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's my understanding that the price you pay in the UK includes lots of taxes that go toward underwriting mass transit (i.e., rail)
ROTFLMAO!!! We certainly pay lots of tax on fuel but, as to where it goes, it certainly doesn't subsidise rail travel.

London may have a reasonable public transport network but, for us who are fortunate enough not to live too close (in British terms), there really isn't too much choice other than to use cars. If I wanted to travel to London from Liverpool for a day's business, arriving somewhere near 09:00 and leaving around 17:30, I would have to pay £215 (around $430US); petrol for the car journey would only cost around £72.


We have no such public support of rail in the US, with the result that there is no viable alternative to private vehicles (outside of a limited number of metropolitan areas.)
Just like here in the UK.


Myself, I'd gladly pay more tax if I thought anything good would come of it, but sad experience indicates that would be unlikely
Just like here in the UK.

Add to our transport costs the fact that, anything over £5000 that self-employed people earn is liable to income tax at 22% plus another 8.1%; not to mention the 17.5% we pay on most purchases...

[Robert Brummitt]

First, sorry for putting this in the wrong category. My mistake.
As it was stated earlier, I did place this thread in many other photo websites. I wanted to get as broad arrange of thoughts and responses and I think I did.
What I hear from the LF Members is this "Damn the gas pump! I'm heading out to photograph!" Most of you have either a second econ car or don't care about cost. What about your bottom line?
From a more commercial photo site, I heard photographers saying that they are charging more for their services to cover the gas. Fine art photographers, who make a living selling prints say that they have increased their print prices to cover gas.
I also heard from one person who does workshops on both coasts and he's really feeling the pinch. He say's that airline flights have almost doubled. He fears that if he raises the tuition, his clientele will bulk.
Most of you, I'm sure, don't attend too many workshops or events. But if you do when does the cost of traveling come into your considering a workshop?
I'm also really fascinated by the response this thread has gotten from our European photographers. They have felt the gas pinch a lot earlier then we here in the States. I had always thought because of the train services in Europe, traveling was so vastly greater then here. The trains was the best means of travel. I guess I'm a victim of Hollywood.
Thanks for all the great responses!

[John Bowen]

I live in Richmond, VA. I travel to VT and NH 2-3 times a year to participate in Fine Focus Workshops hosted by Bruce Barlow, Ted Harris and Richard Ritter. The workshops run Fri - Sun, but I always add a few days either before or after the workshop to photograph in the area. I always drive and take the SUV. The cost of shooting 8x10 & 7x17 negatives always exceeds the cost of gasoline.

I enjoy these "get aways" becasue they get my photographic juices flowing and the comraderie is outstanding.

Last year Bruce and I took a trip together to Maine (you can read about it in the March/April View Camera). It was a VERY LONG drive from Richmond to NH to pick up Bruce, then on to Maine. I broke the trip north into 2 segments. Segment 1 from Richmond to VT was one day, a day or two photographing in VT, then from VT to Maine. The return trip was accomplished in one VERY LONG DAY. We left Maine at 5:30 AM and I arrived home in Richmond around 1 AM....

We plan to do it again this fall.

[MIke Sherck]

What Daniel said. At $4 per gallon I doubt I'd change my habits: my photo trips tend to be either 30 miles or 3000 miles, rarely anything in between. For the 3000 mile trips, photography is a sideshow, anyway: the real reason is to get my wife warm for a week or two during the winter, so she can forget about her arthritis for a while. At $5 per gallon, those might end.

I used to love flying, 20 years ago, but I stopped long before 9/11. When the airlines started packing passengers in with a rubber plunger, I opted out of the game. :)

Mike

[tim atherton]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's my understanding that the price you pay in the UK includes lots of taxes that go toward underwriting mass transit (i.e., rail) .

All the US taxes on a gallon of gasoline (which are quite a substantial percentage) are supposed to be for transportation - it's essentially a user tax - you are paying anywhere from 26c to 62c per gallon in taxes depending on where you are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_tax#United_States_of_America


in the UK it's USD$4.84 per gallon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_tax#United_Kingdom


and Canada between about 90c and and US$1.49 per gallon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_tax#Canada

(according to Wiki...)

[roteague]

If our do-nothing-worthwhile Congress were to pass a sensible energy bill allowing the exploration and drilling of the oil-rich areas in this country, we wouldn't be beholden to the international cartels and could once again be the masters of our own energy destinies.

The issue is more related to the free fall of the US dollar. Everytime we drop interest rates, the dollar falls even more - and oil is paid for in dollars. Even if we drilled in ANWR (which I'm not opposed to), the price of crude would still be based upon the world market.

[QT Luong]

Compared with time and other expenses associated with photography, I find gas prices rather immaterial in the US unless you drive a big gas guzzler. If gas prices reached European levels, I'd probably buy a more efficient vehicle in the Prius-class, but that's the maximum extend to which I'd let gas prices affect me.

[Turner Reich]

Is it four dollars a gallon anywhere yet?

[Hollis]

There is a station outside of Baker, California that routinely has well over $4.00 a gallon. They are conveniently located near nothing and are the only game in town so I guess they can get away with it. Almost a year ago it was $4.29/gallon for the low-grade stuff. Avoid if at all possible.

[MIke Sherck]

ROTFLMAO!!! We certainly pay lots of tax on fuel but, as to where it goes, it certainly doesn't subsidise rail travel.

London may have a reasonable public transport network but, for us who are fortunate enough not to live too close (in British terms), there really isn't too much choice other than to use cars. If I wanted to travel to London from Liverpool for a day's business, arriving somewhere near 09:00 and leaving around 17:30, I would have to pay £215 (around $430US); petrol for the car journey would only cost around £72.


Just like here in the UK.


Just like here in the UK.

Add to our transport costs the fact that, anything over £5000 that self-employed people earn is liable to income tax at 22% plus another 8.1%; not to mention the 17.5% we pay on most purchases...

Sounds expensive. What do you get out of it, or to put it another way, why do you put up with such high taxes?

Mike

[false_Aesthetic]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Come August I'll be moving from Boston, a rather compact city with "decent" public transit, to LA. I certainly won't be able to afford a new gas efficient car(student loans and paying off my thesis show come first) and from what I've been told and what I remember public transit is bad in LA.

Solution 1: (The Nick Nixon): Ride a bicycle everywhere. When I first started TAing for Nick I was surprised to learn that he rides an all-black single speed Bontrager everywhere inside of Boston. If he can manage Boston traffic on a bike at 60 I should be able to handle LA at 26.

Solution 2 (the Scenester): Vespa/Scooter. My roommate's overhauled late 70s vespa gets about 60mpg. The added benefit is that it attracts foxy ladies. It's great for around town and his insurance is about $150/year

Solution 3: Motorcycle (specifically a early-mid 70s BMW /5) outfitted with locking waterproof bags. If Che Guevarra could travel on a bicycle with an engine strapped to it, I can certainly do long distances on a PLUSH BMW with my camera in the saddle bags.

[mrladewig]

Solution 3: Motorcycle (specifically a early-mid 70s BMW /5) outfitted with locking waterproof bags. If Che Guevarra could travel on a bicycle with an engine strapped to it, I can certainly do long distances on a PLUSH BMW with my camera in the saddle bags.

A friend of mine has a 75/5 with a sidecar. He's ridden it from Colorado to Alaska and Newfoundland. I think he's gonna try to ride it to Baja and Key West at some point.

That said, he's had some troubles with it. On one trip, the valve seats were wearing badly because of unleaded gas and he had to adjust the valves after each day of riding. Upon his return, I believe he had to send the heads out to be fixed. He's also had trouble obtaining the correct tires in some cases. He had to wait several days for a tire when he had a flat on one of his trips. It may have been a sidecar tire though. Still I can't see him getting rid of that bike any time soon.

As for the topic. I can't let gas prices stop me from getting out for photography, hiking and fishing though they may likely affect other luxuries or entertainment. I use one of our more efficient cars when I can, but sometimes I need my jeep to get where I'm going. Good for oil companies. Bad for the economy.

At some level, inflation will pinch me too much and I'll no longer be able to afford the hobby. After all, its not just gasoline prices that are moving upward. The price increase for transport is being passed on to us in our food and almost everything else we buy.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

The average gas price in Iceland today is US$ 7.93 for the US gallon. If the people on the North American continent would drive more fule efficent cars and american presidents would fight fewer wars for oil, we would all pay less for gas and our grandchildren might have some crude oil for their chemical industry.

[Bruce Schultz]

Our idiot president acted like he hadn't heard that gasoline will be $4 by this summer. Either he lied, again, or he's dumber than I thought.

[Joanna Carter]

Sounds expensive. What do you get out of it, or to put it another way, why do you put up with such high taxes?
What do we get out of it ? I really can't find a sane/polite answer to that one.

Why do we put up with such high taxes ? Because all three political parties are pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet; we really don't have a choice.

Emigration is starting to look an interesting option but getting into other countries is a lot more difficult than getting into the UK :(

[Ken Lee]

Just as the Europeans were able to obtain North and South America from the natives, for little more than a few trinkets awarded to the right people, the Oil interests can now purchase political influence in oil-consuming nations - for what to them, is little more than few trinkets. In large measure, the "influence" consists of looking the other way.

[Kuzano]

Solution 3: Motorcycle (specifically a early-mid 70s BMW /5) outfitted with locking waterproof bags. If Che Guevarra could travel on a bicycle with an engine strapped to it, I can certainly do long distances on a PLUSH BMW with my camera in the saddle bags.

Well, after having 3 Slash 5's, none of which delivered more than 45MPG, I think I'll move back to my Citroen 2CV, which did better and allowed me to stay out of the weather. I'd like to have another Citroen Truckette.

The Slash 5's have a certain mystique and appeal, but I can relate to the constant maintenance routines. A nice combo would be a /5 w/sidecar and two spares on the back of the sidecar. An alternative would be a Ural w/sidecar in military trim. But both of those alternatives would be under 40MPG

[argos33]

For now I am not going to let gas prices get in the way of photo excursions unless it gets closer to $5/GAL.

During the warmer months I plan to take my motorcycle a lot more in the future. I have some good sized saddlebags that hold almost everything (although I'd almost need a sidecar for the 8x10).

A lot of motorcycles (especially older Japanese bikes) will get 50-60 MPG no problem. Even a lot of newer bikes (in the mid-sized engine range) will get excellent gas mileage and are very reliable. I have an 2000 SV650 that gets 40-50 MPG and my insurance is $140/year. Obviously there are limitations, (ULF shooters for instance, colder areas, etc.) but for me it is a very cheap and fun way to get out on the nicer days and take some photos.

[roteague]

I'm waiting on the Hummer H2 with the new 4.5L Turbo diesel V8. :p

[copake_ham]

$4.00 a gal. Then $5. Get ready for Peak Oil (see Hubbert) when discovery of new reserves is less than the pace of exhausting reserves. 50 years from now, we won't dream of burning the precious stuff. Also get ready for the decline of suburbia...an urban design heavily dependent on cheap oil.

The best way to cope is bring a couple fellow LF'ers along with you....cuts $4.00 gas to $1.33. Maybe we should have a "ride-share" section to the forum.

Then again, 50 years from now - I'll be long dead!

Life's getting short enough now so that I don't really care all that much about how much a gallon of gas costs.

Besides, right now I'm still a working stiff and I walk to work. I'm keeping my eyes on the price of shoe leather!

[Kirk Keyes]

I'm waiting on the Hummer H2 with the new 4.5L Turbo diesel V8. :p


Robert - good thing you are stuck on a small island!

[roteague]

Robert - good thing you are stuck on a small island!

Yeah, I can go almost everywhere on this island on the bus, for as little as $2 each way. The downside is that Oahu is the 11th largest metropolitan area in the country, and is very crowded as a result.

[Emil Ems]

Being an old-fashioned European, I don't own a car and have to rely on my 2 apostle's horses or my bike for transport. All my large format prints (about 100 masterprints by now taken during 35 active years) have been taken within a radius of 5 kilometers of my homes (partly Brussels, partly Stockholm). So I am a happy photographer not being affected by world events to a high degree. Access to silver film of large format is more of a concern to me. Developers are safe again, thanks to Rodinal being remanufactured.

[Jim Ewins]

Gas is cheaper today than 20 years ago, If you buy it with gold. It is the dollar that the government has inflated. Time to buy a wheelbarrow to carry cigarette money.

[Vaughn]

Is it four dollars a gallon anywhere yet?

I saw premium and diesel at $3.99/gal today at a low to mid-priced station. Cheapest reg unleaded around here is about $3.55/gal, give or take a nickel.

So everyday I can ride my bicycle to work, I save a gallon of gas, or about 4 bucks. Sounds like I can justify stopping by the brewpub for a good pint on the way home! I just need to get myself back into the habit...especially as the weather is starting to warm up some.

I have thought about car-less photography. I did a bit when I was using 4x5 and 5x7. Using my 8x10 would require the use of a trailer of some type. The redwoods I like to photograph are 50 miles to the north (and another area about the same distance south). So that would mean tossing on a sleeping bag and having a full day of photographing at the price of two days of pedaling. Doable, in theory.

But a bike trailer would also allow me to photograph my larger "backyard"...my neighborhood, my town and the surounding countryside. I should have talked my wife into getting one of those trailers for hauling a couple of kids, when our kids were small...but I got too practical because they were not designed for three kids. I wasn't thinking ahead!

I just put 1000 miles on the van going to, and photographing in, Yosemite Valley. Using a conservitive 20 MPG (actual was about 23mpg), that's 50 gallons, or about $175 in gasoline. I got to see a good friend, meet new people, go to an opening I had an image in, photograph for three days in great weather and environment, and have a few days away from my three wonderful almost 11 year old boys and all the house-related chores. At $175, plus a thousand miles worth of wear-and-tear on the van, I think that is pretty good value for my buck. But unfortunately it is enough to keep me from driving down there 6 times a year instead of just the two times a year I average.

Vaughn

[Dick Hilker]

The issue is more related to the free fall of the US dollar. Everytime we drop interest rates, the dollar falls even more - and oil is paid for in dollars. Even if we drilled in ANWR (which I'm not opposed to), the price of crude would still be based upon the world market.


That's certainly true, but if the worldwide supply of oil were to be increased as a result of increased domestic drilling, the world market price of oil would drop according to the shift in supply and demand. We really do need to bolster the dollar, even at the expense of those companies now profiting from overseas sales of bargain-priced goods.

[Donald Miller]

That's certainly true, but if the worldwide supply of oil were to be increased as a result of increased domestic drilling, the world market price of oil would drop according to the shift in supply and demand. We really do need to bolster the dollar, even at the expense of those companies now profiting from overseas sales of bargain-priced goods.

I totally agree with this. The value of the dollar versus the Euro has declined by 22% in less than one year. Gasoline price increases over the past year have incorporated 57 cents of increase due to dollar devaluation alone. If this trend continues and the supply/demand ratio remained the same we would see about 77 cents of increase in gasoline prices in the upcoming year due to dollar devaluation alone.

Any increase on the supply side of the equation due to new oil production is unlikely to produce enough effect to materially alter prices. More likely, as I see it, is decreased demand due to economic factors...but even that is limited in actual practice.

I see nothing that will stop the continued dollar devaluation in the near term (2-5 years). In fact we have not even begun to experience the full fallout of deficit spending (including the war in Iraq) or the housing debacle and it's effect on the supply of money...recent fed announcements indicate that they are cranking up the printing presses and increasing the dollar supply by more than 60% for the next two auctions...with indications that they are prepared to continue the practice for the foreseeable future. Our trade imbalance continues with no apparent government awareness to the implications. So it may sound like a simple matter to prop up the dollar but in practice it becomes a very sticky problem...not easily accomplished, if possible at all.

[roteague]

We really do need to bolster the dollar, even at the expense of those companies now profiting from overseas sales of bargain-priced goods.


It doesn't help when the US Air Force awards a multi-billon dollar contract to Airbus (instead of Boeing).

[SAShruby]

Our idiot president acted like he hadn't heard that gasoline will be $4 by this summer. Either he lied, again, or he's dumber than I thought.

Definitely Dumber.;)

[vinny]

Speaking of dumb: check out the section on the gas guzzler tax
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=33572

Does anyone think the price of gas will ever decrease? Did demand really change that much to drive the prices up this much? I remember the summer of 1998 when it was less than $1 in grand rapids, michigan. 10 years isn't that long in the history of oil consumption.

[Jim Chinn]

The price of a barrel of oil has more than doubled in the last 3 years, yet consumption world wide has increased only a few percentage points each year. As Donald pointed out, the decrease in the value of the Dollar is key and don't forget the role of speculators who drive the price higer.

It is true that the price of gasoline is still inline with the previous high from 1980 when adjusted for inflation. The problem is incomes have not increased as rapidly. When you couple the huge amounts of debt many families carry on credit cards, equity lines and second mortgages with increased inflation at the grocery store. The idea that the current recession ( yes we are in one) will be short I think is wishful thinking. The Federal Reserve can push interest rates to 0% and it will make no diference to families that are over leveraged. Unless banks are going to refinace mortgages down to the 3% range (won't happen) and drop interest rates on credi cards from 18+% down to under 10%, increasing inflation will further erode the consumers ability to not only repay debt but purhcase non-essentials. Remember, consumer spending accounts for 2/3rds of GDP.

And don't count on those rebate checks makinga big difference. A big chunk will go towards retiring debt and buying groceries and gas. What does get put into the economy will be sucked back out in 2010 when income tax will go up and the capital gains tax is raised.

[Ron McElroy]

Does anyone think the price of gas will ever decrease? Did demand really change that much to drive the prices up this much? I remember the summer of 1998 when it was less than $1 in grand rapids, michigan. 10 years isn't that long in the history of oil consumption.

One major reason for the low price of gas in 1998 was the economic colaspe in Asia and the strength of the dollar. Oil sold for about $10/barrel at that time. Today's weakness of the dollar is driving the price of oil by making it cost more here as well as major investors putting money into oil futures as an inflation hedge.

[seawolf66]

The gasoline should Be Higher in the city to make the folks use Public transportation
the people out in the boon docks like the outskirts of Minasotta montana,north dakota :They have a long ways to go to get food and supplys: :

[domenico Foschi]

A friend used to say: I don't care if gas prices increase, I will always buy it $ 10 at a time.

When gas prices will get to $4 I will seriously start thinking to return back to Italy.
Just one more excuse.
Gas is expensive in Italy, but we use the car MUCH less.

[john borrelli]

I have been driving Honda Civics for years. On the highway, driven at 55 mph the mpg is ridiculously good. The cars are also low emissions vehicles which is also good for the environment. My most frequent location for photography is 2 hours north on the highway (the White Mountains area of New Hampshire). I have definitely gone there less this Winter(my favorite season there) in part because of gas prices. To optimize my success, I have taken to closely track the weather on Weather.Com. For a week before I go, I look for certain conditions, when I think I see that trend and can get a day off, I go. I have also called a Tourist office there and had the staff look out their window to verify what I have been tracking. I think the higher gas prices have helped to make me more efficient in some of my photo practices.

[Nick_3536]

Gas is expensive in Italy, but we use the car MUCH less.

If you live in a city yes. If not I find I drive further. OTOH my car gets so much better mileage that even with 1.3 for a litre of diesel it costs me 1/2 what it cost in Canada.

On the point it's all the US $. If that was true the price in Euro would be flat. It's at record highs here to.

On the supply issue. Supply was so high last year they had no place to stick it. All the storage tanks were full.

Gasoline supplies aren't exactly tight now either.

Now they could raise the margin requirements on commodity futures. Wanna bet how quickly the prices would drop?

[Dick Hilker]

Now they could raise the margin requirements on commodity futures. Wanna bet how quickly the prices would drop?

That probably would help, along with reversing the "Uptick" trading rule on shorting stocks.

[AF-ULF]

I paid $5.75 for a gallon today in the US. Of course, it was for a gallon of D-76. I guess all costs are relative.

[Joanna Carter]

Then you have the cost of Epson ink for the R2400 printer @ $6,430 per US gallon, £3,842 per UK gallon. And that doesn't account for the cost of the ink that you can't use after the chip says the cartridge is empty.

[Terence McDonagh]

It doesn't help when the US Air Force awards a multi-billon dollar contract to Airbus (instead of Boeing).

It doesn't help when Boeing bribes government purchasing officials with jobs, and proposes an inferior product while acting like they are the anointed savior. I'd love to see more of the jobs stay in the U.S., but Boeing blew it, not the Air Force.

I'd rather give my friends in the military a best product to safely get their job done than to watch them deal with an inferior product because it was better for U.S. employment (a claim that has been shown to be dubious anyway).

If we expect to sell things overseas, it is disingenuous to expect them to not be able to sell things here.

The problem of our economy is not holding our politicians liable for their wasteful spending. Until people begin to look at what's good for the country in the long-term instead of what is good for their district in the short-term, we're screwed. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be human nature to do so.

[Jim Ewins]

Don't you'all worry. this government will depreciate the dollar to the point it'll cost $10/gal before the world stops using the $ and oil then will be priced in euros.

[John Z.]

I just bought a Camry Hybrid, and am very happy with it; I doubled my gas mileage to 34 mpg! Effectively cut my gas cost in half, saving 1,400 dollars a year.

[Stephen Willard]

I am sadden by the price of fuel. I suspect the impact on poor working rural people who travel long distances to work are going to feel the crunch more than the rest of us.

However, I believe the only way we are going to curb our ridiculous appetite for energy is for further increases in energy prices. Only then will people start to walk to work, rider a bicycle to worker, live closer to work, drive smaller cars, drive at slower speeds, insulate their houses properly, turn down the heat and wear a sweater, turn off the air conditioner and use fans, use a cloths line, turn off street lights at night, live in smaller houses, and the list goes on.

Our political system is not capable of doing the right thing. As much as we hate Bush, he is only a reflection of us. We are in Iraq only because we cannot tame our consumption for energy. His pulling out of the international agreement to reduce our carbon footprint is only a reflection of the ineffectiveness of our political system and American's unwillingness to change and reducetheir styles. Bush is us in every way. How many anti-Bush Pro-environment bumper stickers have I seen blow past me on the interstates going 80 mph. Most of us, including myself, do not walk our talk. We are nothing more than all-consuming debt driven energy guzzling hypocrites. The resources it take me to sustain my life style with the cars, size of my house, and everything else I consume, I could feed 3000 people for a year in a third world country.

Who are we trying kid here...

[Jerzy Pawlowski]

However, I believe the only way we are going to curb our ridiculous appetite for energy is for further increases in energy prices. Only then will people start to walk to work, rider a bicycle to worker, live closer to work, Too late, this requires smart city planning. Ridiculous new suburb divisions in US and Canadian cities (I call these architectural, economic, and cultural disaster) won't allow for any efficient public transportation in the future, too far for riding bicycle or walking. No car equals no life in this case.

Fortunately, gas is still relatively cheap (compare bottled water or coke) and oil will last for quite some time despite popular crying that the end is close, obviously it does not mean it should be wasted. Just in time we will have alternate ways to move our cars.

[Donald Miller]

I think that one idea that would have lasting benefits would be to immediately raise the mileage requirements for autos to 32 mpg (if the auto makers can't deliver, they can not sell) at the same time we could raise the price of gasoline to $8 per gallon...the additional $4 (tax) would be used to pay for a high speed passenger rail system and expanded rail freight transport capabilities...The US auto industry is on it's ass as it is now...maybe it's time to deliver the coup de gras.

Driving down I40 through NM and Arizona is like playing dodge ball with the eighteen wheelers...hundreds of trucks hauling a smidgen of freight at about 8 mpg...makes no sense to me...trucks should be used for local haul only...rail for long haul...much more cost efficient.

[fergus]

... if the worldwide supply of oil were to be increased as a result of increased domestic drilling, the world market price of oil would drop according to the shift in supply and demand.

True, but sadly with OPEC acting as a cartel there is no open market.

If there were a new source of oil, the OPEC nations would likely restrict supply in order to maintain high prices. This has been their technique in the past, and was the basis for their recent discussions a few weeks ago.

btw - petrol here in Oz is currently US$5.40/Gallon for the good stuff. $4 sounds cheap!!! :o

[Diane Maher]

The gasoline should Be Higher in the city to make the folks use Public transportation
the people out in the boon docks like the outskirts of Minasotta montana,north dakota :They have a long ways to go to get food and supplys: :

If there is public transportation to be used and that actually goes to the place you want to go. :rolleyes:

[roteague]

I think that one idea that would have lasting benefits would be to immediately raise the mileage requirements for autos to 32 mpg (if the auto makers can't deliver, they can not sell)

Then you will be walking very quickly. There is not a auto manufacturer on the plant who can make that goal.

The only way to get even close it through diesel, but diesel emission standards keeps changing so fast the, no one can keep up with them.

Hybrids aren't a particulary good answer. Yes, they get better gas mileage, at the expense of other types of pollution - battery raw materials are strip mined in Canada, sent by ship to Europe for refining then to Japan for final processing. Not very clean, nor very efficient. Not to mention that some manufacturers hybrids won't work on large vehicles - i.e., Toyota, Nissan, Ford. Although GM, Mercedes and BMW (using GM technology) hybrids work on vehicles of all sizes, trucks, down to small cars, they are going to take years to get through the production cycle (GM will start shipping 9 hybrids over the next year or so) and appear on the road.

[Donald Miller]

Then you will be walking very quickly. There is not a auto manufacturer on the plant who can make that goal.

The only way to get even close it through diesel, but diesel emission standards keeps changing so fast the, no one can keep up with them.

Hybrids aren't a particulary good answer. Yes, they get better gas mileage, at the expense of other types of pollution - battery raw materials are strip mined in Canada, sent by ship to Europe for refining then to Japan for final processing. Not very clean, nor very efficient. Not to mention that some manufacturers hybrids won't work on large vehicles - i.e., Toyota, Nissan, Ford. Although GM, Mercedes and BMW (using GM technology) hybrids work on vehicles of all sizes, trucks, down to small cars, they are going to take years to get through the production cycle (GM will start shipping 9 hybrids over the next year or so) and appear on the road.

Hmmm...guess that you disagree with a lot of other people on mileage attainable. I see no reason to walk with the standards that I suggested.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/108467/article.html

http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/top10_fuel.htm

http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/top10/index.cfm/action/mileage/vehicleclass/all/listtype/3?CPCID=21928-0-0-0-11590-107-0-0-0-0&id=21928&osit=0000617056&omed=0000373299&otim=1206296153&otrm=3324618&xsmemid=19453014

[roteague]

Hmmm...guess that you disagree with a lot of other people on mileage attainable. I see no reason to walk with the standards that I suggested.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/108467/article.html

http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/top10_fuel.htm

http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/top10/index.cfm/action/mileage/vehicleclass/all/listtype/3?CPCID=21928-0-0-0-11590-107-0-0-0-0&id=21928&osit=0000617056&omed=0000373299&otim=1206296153&otrm=3324618&xsmemid=19453014

Oh, I understand where you are coming from, and there are cars that attain that now, but for the majority of people small cars are sufficient.

However, most of the cars you point to are all small cars, some, like the Honda Insight are no longer being made, while others like the VW diesels can't be sold in California (and the other states that have adopted the CA standard). Small cars aren't for everyone, and, unlike Europe, you can't sell a small car for a premium price in the US.

But, where does that leave minivans, SUVs, light duty trucks, etc.? Currently, the most fuel efficient SUV (Chevy Tahoe Hybrid) still only gets about 20mpg. While GM (and others) are working on diesel engine technology, there are new diesel emission standards coming in 2009. One note: US diesel standards are 5 times more stringent than European standards (and the reason we don't get diesel engines from there).

Both diesel and hybrid technologies are expensive, in many cases outweighing the benefit of higher mileage. With hybrids, you also have the problem of, while reducing gasoline usage, increasing other problems for the environment, like air, water and ground pollution. Don't forget, in the case of Toyota hybrids, battery materials are strip mined in Canada, shipped to Europe for refining, then shipped to Japan to make the batteries - that potentially uses a lot of energy (shipping by boat isn't free).

No, the real problem with fuel prices is our economy, as you and others have pointed out.

[roteague]

"There is not a auto manufacturer on the plant who can make that goal."

Bring a lot of the European and Japanese diesel vehicles into the US. Mercedes has a nice luxury model that gets 40mpg. VW has three models that get over 60mpg, including small trucks and delivery vehicles. One model gets 90mpg+ on the highway.
Audi has models that get 40+mpg.

It can be done and is being done. They just don't bring them into the US.

As I pointed out, they are not being brought in the US because they don't meet US diesel emission standards. US emission standards are 5 times tougher than European standards. The only European diesel that is 50-state compliant is the Mercedes BlueTec - check out the price on this, and you will find out why they aren't more widely used. All the other diesels sold in the US can only be sold in 45 states - they can't be sold in California, an no manufacturer is going to ignore the California market.

Diesels are coming, but not until they meet the specs. Once again, there is no auto manufacturer that can "currently" meet the goal.

[roteague]

Some of you might be intrested in this article:

BMW 520d beats Prius in gas mileage

"Readers of London's Sunday Times kept telling the auto reporters that the official mileage numbers for the Prius were overstated by about 15 imperial mpg. Intrigued, the Times decided to test things out by running a Prius against a BMW 520d with regenerative braking from London to Geneva, a 460-mile trip. Then they added 100 miles of urban running to give the Prius a chance to recover ground on its proper turf.

The verdict: the conventional diesel with Efficient Dynamics beat the full hybrid by 2.2 imperial mpg, or 1.8 US mpg."

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw-520d-beats-prius-in-gas-mileage/

Of course, the BMW 520d isn't available in the US.

[roteague]

True, but sadly with OPEC acting as a cartel there is no open market.

If there were a new source of oil, the OPEC nations would likely restrict supply in order to maintain high prices. This has been their technique in the past, and was the basis for their recent discussions a few weeks ago.

btw - petrol here in Oz is currently US$5.40/Gallon for the good stuff. $4 sounds cheap!!! :o

The price of petrol has more to do with the value of the US dollar. Oil is paid for in US dollars, and with the weakness of the dollar, prices are raised to make up for it. Contrary to popular belief, the US gets most of its oil from Canada and Mexico, not the Middle East. I think Australia gets most of its from Indonesia (but I could be mistaken).

[David Luttmann]

Some of you might be intrested in this article:

BMW 520d beats Prius in gas mileage

"Readers of London's Sunday Times kept telling the auto reporters that the official mileage numbers for the Prius were overstated by about 15 imperial mpg. Intrigued, the Times decided to test things out by running a Prius against a BMW 520d with regenerative braking from London to Geneva, a 460-mile trip. Then they added 100 miles of urban running to give the Prius a chance to recover ground on its proper turf.

The verdict: the conventional diesel with Efficient Dynamics beat the full hybrid by 2.2 imperial mpg, or 1.8 US mpg."

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw-520d-beats-prius-in-gas-mileage/

Of course, the BMW 520d isn't available in the US.

Not to mention the fact that the Prius is as ugly as sin. Why is it that manufacturers seem to think that their hybrids need to look like the vehicles out of Woody Allen's "Sleeper."

[John Z.]

I disagree Roteague; hybrids that are coming along in the next few years will be getting close to 80 mpg or more, and will include a Lexus Prius, more roomy and comfortable. Shortly afterwards, there will be plug in hybrids too. My Camry hybrid gets 34mpg, and it is the first step in the new technology. Combine that with the fact that I now have solar panels on my home that supply 100% of my electricity, and you can easily see a point in time where are cars are solar powered indirectly through the plug in hybrid technology. I disagree about hybrids trading one type of pollution for another; even when cars do operate off the power grid eventually, it is much cleaner than burning gasoline. Check out Priuschat.com for much more lengthy debates on these topics. As the saying goes; 'You must be the change you wish to se in the world'.

[roteague]

I disagree Roteague; hybrids that are coming along in the next few years will be getting close to 80 mpg or more, and will include a Lexus Prius, more roomy and comfortable. Shortly afterwards, there will be plug in hybrids too. My Camry hybrid gets 34mpg, and it is the first step in the new technology. Combine that with the fact that I now have solar panels on my home that supply 100% of my electricity, and you can easily see a point in time where are cars are solar powered indirectly through the plug in hybrid technology. I disagree about hybrids trading one type of pollution for another; even when cars do operate off the power grid eventually, it is much cleaner than burning gasoline. Check out Priuschat.com for much more lengthy debates on these topics. As the saying goes; 'You must be the change you wish to se in the world'.

I'm well aware of the debates on this subject, I spent a lot of time over at the GMInside News forum. GM will be introducing 9 hybrids over the next year, so there is a lot of discussion about this.

Whether you agree or not, it is well known where the materials come from for hybrid batteries and where they are shipped for processing - that entails a significiant amout of fuel used, just to ship materials around for processing. Not to mention that fact that battery technology is really dirty. Nothing is free, including with hybrids.

Lexus hybrids are performance hybrids; they are not designed for economy of gas mileage. Toyota itself will tell you that their hybrid system (HSD) won't scale to large vehicles - one of the reasons it is estimated that the Lexus LS600h will take 3770 years to pay off the difference in price based upon gas mileage over the non hybrid LS; the RX 400h is in the same boat.

Fortunately for the hybrid lover, the GM hybrid system will scale (and will be used by GM, BMW, Mercedes and Chrysler). Unlike the Toyota hybrid, which primarily works at low speed (acting as a drag at highway speeds), the GM hybrid system works at both city and highway driving.

Personally, I see the future not in hybrids, but in pure electric vehicles - like the Chevy Volt, which will be introduced in 2010. However, at this time in history, hybrids can't match diesel technology for mileage - including bio diesel.

[Kirk Keyes]

However, at this time in history, hybrids can't match diesel technology for mileage - including bio diesel.

Speaking of which - where's my new Jetta TDI? I hope they are not waiting until summer to start selling them... I want it NOW!

[roteague]

Speaking of which - where's my new Jetta TDI? I hope they are not waiting until summer to start selling them... I want it NOW!

Here you go:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdr...9jetta_tdi.htm

Richmond, British Columbia - In 2006, almost half of all Jetta and Golf models sold in Canada were powered by diesel engines, and the most popular diesel powered car in Canada was the Jetta TDI. So it was quite a shock when Volkswagen announced in 2006 that it wouldn't be offering any 2007 diesel models in Canada. VW's trusty 1.9-litre TDI turbo diesel just didn't meet strict new 2007 North American diesel emissions standards, a rather embarrassing situation for a company that's been building diesel engine for decades. At the time, Volkswagen's new clean diesel technology was still a year and a half away.

Well, it's still eight months away, but at least we've been given a glimpse of the future. VW's new 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbo-diesel will arrive in the summer of 2008 in the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI sedan, and in the new 2009 Jetta TDI Wagon. In a special advance test drive, CanadianDriver was able to get behind the wheel of a 2009 Jetta TDI to see exactly what the future holds for patient Volkswagen diesel enthusiasts.

[Donald Miller]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23590865/

[CTSELLAS]

Diesel is also now 4.15 a gallon. Maybe if people stopped driving such major gas guzzlers for no reason and bought something that was reasonable then they wouldnt freak when gas went up.

[Kirk Keyes]

Diesel is also now 4.15 a gallon.

I expect that to drop relative to gas prices during the summer when there is no demand for home heating oil which is very similar (And sometimes the same) to Diesel #2 used in vehicles.

And as long as diesels continue to get significantly better mileage than gas, a slightly higher price is still negated by the increased mileage.

I think it would be cool for VW to hire Sting to sing "I want my TDI" for the advertisements for the new cars. But the truth is, they will not need to advertise the TDIs as they will sell out very quickly.

[roteague]

Diesel is also now 4.15 a gallon. Maybe if people stopped driving such major gas guzzlers for no reason and bought something that was reasonable then they wouldnt freak when gas went up.

As Kirk points out, diesel prices tend to drop during the summer, just the opposite of what gasoline does. Also, one of the factors in the price of diesel is the government mandate for low sulfar diesel last year.

[Donald Miller]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE

[roteague]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE

There are a number of technologies that are being looked at, like HCCI (basically a gasoline engine that works like a diesel engine), which look quite promising. The problem is translating them to reality. It takes years, and an enormous sum of money to turn an idea into something feasible for the marketplace. As Bob Lutz of GM has stated numerious times, it isn't that the technology for advances in fuel economy isn't available, it is, the problem is the cost. GM estimates that to meet the current CAFE mandates will add $7000+ to the cost of an automobile.

[Donald Miller]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/2070718.001/audi-to-launch-next-gen-diesel-and-hybrid-engines


This looks like 49 mpg overall...and it meets Ca. standards...Hmmm...

I still think that if our govt mandated 32 mpg in order to sell their product then changes would come pretty quickly.

[roteague]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/2070718.001/audi-to-launch-next-gen-diesel-and-hybrid-engines


This looks like 49 mpg overall...and it meets Ca. standards...Hmmm...

I still think that if our govt mandated 32 mpg in order to sell their product then changes would come pretty quickly.

The Q7 isn't coming to the US due to the high Euro.

[Donald Miller]

Robert, This is the part of the Audi report that I was referencing. It seems that the A series is covered by the mileage and emissions standards as I read it.

Quote:

"Great potential for reducing fuel consumption all around the world
Thanks to their extremely low emission levels, these cutting-edge direct-injection diesel engines can be put into service anywhere in the world, even in the US state of California where the most stringent emissions limits are enforced. Compared to the average fleet consumption of petrol engines typically fitted in the USA, the TDI offers a fuel saving of as much as 35 percent. As a consequence, diesel technology can make a greater contribution to reducing the consumption of fossil fuels and emissions of environmentally harmful greenhouse gases than any other form of propulsion currently available. Audi will be marketing these new models in the USA and in Europe from the second half of 2008.
Extensive package for cutting CO2 emissions
Perfecting the TDI forms part of Audi's integrated technology strategy for further reducing emissions of CO2 and other harmful gases from all models. Apart from this, Audi is also counting on the tremendous potential held by its sophisticated combustion engines: with their direct-injection technology and turbochargers, the TFSI petrol engines ââââ‚šÂÂââ‚ÂÅ“ just like the TDI powerplants ââââ‚šÂÂââ‚ÂÅ“ distinguish themselves even today by virtue of fuel consumption figures which compare favourably to the competition.
As a result of this strategy, many Audi TDI and TFSI models will in future deploy an innovative power management system which capitalises on coasting and braking phases by recuperating and storing electrical power. Furthermore, a next-generation start-stop system is currently being developed which lives up to Audiââââ‚šÂÂââ₞¢s standards of comfort.
High-volume model series to include ââââ‚šÂÂËœeââââ‚šÂÂââ₞¢ models
Meticulous refinement throughout the entire vehicle also helps to significantly reduce fuel consumption. Optimised rolling resistance, a further reduction in air drag, specially tuned gear ratios, reduced friction and redeveloped ancillary units are just a few of the devices used by Audi to continuously enhance the efficiency of its entire model fleet. With their high torque at low rev speeds, the turbocharged, direct-injection petrol and diesel engines from Audi come with the ideal credentials for an optimised gearbox set up that enables the vehicle to be driven with the engine running at its most efficient.
The success of this strategy is exemplified by the ââââ‚šÂÂËœeââââ‚šÂÂââ₞¢ models which are already in series production. Take the current Audi A3 1.9 TDI e, for instance, with its exemplary standardised fuel consumption of just 4.5 litres/100 km (overall) and CO2 emissions of 119 grams per kilometre. In future, Audi will be enlarging its range of extra-efficient models considerably and offering both TDI and TFSI versions of ââââ‚šÂÂËœeââââ‚šÂÂââ₞¢ models in the high-volume model series."

[roteague]

Robert, This is the part of the Audi report that I was referencing. It seems that the A series is covered by the mileage and emissions standards as I read it.

Diesel engines are coming. At the moment only the Mercedes BlueTec has been certified to meet California's standard; however, all the auto manufacturers are working on this. Honda is very close to having something ready by next year as well.

Make sure you hold onto your pocketbook, because all of these won't be cheap.

[D. Bryant]

americans can expect to pay $5/gal by xmas 2008.
(that's my prediction)

You are quite the sexual intellectual - what's the price of gasoline today? Not even close to $5 per gallon.

[EdWorkman]

When the CA legislature gets through with the taxes, it will be back up there. There's some scheme afoot to "get rid of" the present excise tax and do some other "sales Tax" so as to tripe the tax or so- not that I understand the thing - but obfuscation is the point anyway