CFLs bulbs in your darkroom...or anywhere

[domenico Foschi]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55213

Aside of the fact that these bulbs contain mercury and very dangerous in case of brakeage, I have noticed that even if you turn them off, they will keep emitting light for a long while.
Turn off the light and look straight in bulb, you'll see.
I haven't had noticeable damage in my prints or negatives, but I am going to replace them in my all house.

[big_ben_blue]

The mercury isn't the only problem with CFLs. But I do find it it rather amusing that we are actively going to poison ourself and the environment (at the latest upon disposal, or do you really think anyone is going to pay to drop them off at a hazardous waste depot site) in order to save said environment and energy.
For once, the bulbs also contain electronics (since they are basically miniature FL's, they still need a ballast/starter of sorts), ergo electronic waste (heavy metals etc galore). CFL's are also more expensive to produce, hence plenty of the supposed energy savings are already going through the smoke stacks at Bulb&Co. during manufacturing. Oh, and CFL's are only saving you energy and money (and won't fail prematurely) IF you are keeping them turned ON for longer periods. They may need up to 45min to "warm up" and actually be energy saving. Maybe I am a bit dense in the frontal lobes; but where are the supposed "savings", if I can't just turn the light on for 5min when I need it (as with regular old style bulbs) and have to leave the lights on for an hour or so to be energy efficient? Funny thing that modern technology;) .

[Ash]

MJ's house is full of those bastard lightbulbs. We return to hers in the evening, turn on her bedroom light, sit in the dark for 5 minutes waiting for them to warm up, then turn them off a minute later to get to sleep!

I much prefer incandescents, as least I know on is on and off is off.

[Ash]

I'm just thinking about CFL enlarger bulbs... how crap would that be?!

[drew.saunders]

That "WorldNet Daily" article is most likely a hoax: http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/how-many-worldnet-daily-hoaxes-does-it-take-to-change-a-light-bulb/

Here's what the state of Maine really says about cleaning up a broken CFL, and, of course, there's nothing about spending $2000 or any of that junk:

http://maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/fluorescent.htm

Just google "Low Mercury CFL" to get more information from a variety of sources.

Oh, and most hardware stores that sell CFL's will take dead ones for recycling.

[ic-racer]

Another take on these bulbs. At first I saw this thread and thought 'I don't have any of those in my darkroom.' Then I realized I put them in all the basement fixtures a few years ago...and the darkroom is in the basement.

I found them suspicious for some type of pre-programmed failure of the electronics. As you know there is no filament to burn out so they make the electronics fry after a few years. Remember, light bulb replacement is an industry...

All the units I installed in 2001 have failed. Based on the price of these bulbs I consider that a big rip off.:mad: I didn't do the calculations but I suspect the people who make the bulbs did, and the savings in electricity probably just balanced by the increased price of these bulbs. Why give money to the electric co. when you can give it to the bulb co.?

[Peter Lewin]

The sarcastic tone of the following excerpt from the Sierra Club website (yes, I'm a member) is a bit off-putting, but the factual content seems accurate. I avoid CFLs in my basement darkroom due to the obvious problem of light emission for a while after lights-out, but do use them in my other rooms (and my newer ones seem to be "instant on" in contrast to Ash's experience):
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200707/mrgreen_mailbag.asp

[Michael Rosenberg]

The quickness (is that a word?) with which the bulbs come up to full light is dependent on the temperature of the bulb. The warmer the bulb the slower it comes up, the cooler ones come up in a minute or two.

The older bulbs did not have as much life as the newer bulbs. There also use to be only the cool or cold bulbs, now there are choices of three wavelengths.

They are not suitable for the darkroom. I did a test with film, and it was 5 min.s before they would not fog film.

Mike

[Jim MacKenzie]

There are a lot of places where they are not suitable. Like any other fluorescent bulbs, they aren't suitable for lights that are turned on and off frequently; they are optimal for lights that are turned on and left on for extended periods.

They also have a subtle flicker that can induce migraine headaches in people who are prone to getting them.

I use them where appropriate, but my darkroom (when I finally build it :) - I use my father-in-law's for now) will be lit with incandescent light.

[Kirk Keyes]

But I do find it it rather amusing that we are actively going to poison ourself and the environment...


About half the atmospheric mercury here in Oregon comes from China... Someone's going to poison us, and it may not even be us.

[SamReeves]

CFL's are total crap. Never try reading a book with a CFL. :mad:

[ic-racer]

All the units I installed in 2001 have failed.

Just this morning another one failed. This one was placed in 2005.

BTW, these CFLs are on the main basement light circuit. My dedicated darkroom circuits all go to the 12v halogen bulbs in track lights for all the countertop illumination. I have about 20 units. I have replaced a few bulbs since 2001, but all the power supplies built into the sockets are all still working. I went to a lot of trouble to put in these 12v lights but I feel they give the best illumination for working and evaluating prints.

[bigdog]

CFL's are total crap. Never try reading a book with a CFL. :mad:

All the time.

[al olson]

My concern is that fluorescent lights are rich in UV and that UV accelerates the fading of dye-based materials such as fabrics, inkjets, and chromogenics. It is possible to purchase UV-blocking shields for the straight tubes, but for the CFLs ... ?

I have perused the packaging for the CFLs sold in grocery stores and found that there is neither a warning explaining the dangers of UV nor a statement to indicate that these quirky tubes have been coated with material to make them UV safe.

Frankly, I would not place CFLs in any room where there could be fading damage to art or fabrics.

With regard to fluorescents in the darkroom, I have encountered sources stating that it takes up to five minutes after shutting them off before the intensity of the UV glow recedes to the point where it will not fog film or paper. Because the human eye cannot see this glow it would be necessary to put a timer on it to know when it is safe.

[Mark Sampson]

Not to mention the non-full-spectrum nature of those nasty things. Most of the ones I've seen remind me of sodium-vapor parking lot lights- a truly hideous orange. God only knows what it's like to photograph in color under CFLs- luckily I haven't had to yet. i'd bet even digital would be difficult.

[Peter Lewin]

My concern is that fluorescent lights are rich in UV and that UV accelerates the fading of dye-based materials such as fabrics, inkjets, and chromogenics. It is possible to purchase UV-blocking shields for the straight tubes, but for the CFLs ... ?

Frankly, I would not place CFLs in any room where there could be fading damage to art or fabrics.

Rather than shield the bulbs (straight or UFL) you can use UV-resistant glass when you frame the artworks. I seem to be in the vast minority in this thread in that I believe UFLs are a good way for all of us to reduce our energy use, except in applications where they are genuinely inappropriate, which would include darkrooms (the after-glow) and places where they are frequently turned on and off (i.e. on for minutes rather than hours), or on circuits with dimmers (although I have read that newer UFLs can withstand this particular usage; older ones cannot). There's never a completely free lunch...

[John Schneider]

In maybe 5 years broad-spectrum LED lamps will become cheap enough to overtake fluorescents, and this argument will then go away. Broad spectrum 5600K light, 50k+ hr lifetime, no UV, minimal heat, greater efficiency, etc. We have some 1W and 5W white ones in the lab and they are impressive indeed. You can also get narrow-band ones of any number of colors to use as safelights that are bright but will not cause fogging.

[chris_4622]

In maybe 5 years broad-spectrum LED lamps will become cheap enough to overtake fluorescents, and this argument will then go away. Broad spectrum 5600K light, 50k+ hr lifetime, no UV, minimal heat, greater efficiency, etc. We have some 1W and 5W white ones in the lab and they are impressive indeed. You can also get narrow-band ones of any number of colors to use as safelights that are bright but will not cause fogging.

They will be on the market some time this year. Probably under the Sylvania brand.

[robert amsden]

I have a whole house of cfl bulbs including the darkroom. No problem with afterglow. It is much dimmer than anything that glows in the dark. Cfl bulbs are far superior to incandesant bulbs, 1/4 the power used,far less heat generated,longer life. Get used to them,incandesant bulbs are going to be phased in a few years.

[Eric Woodbury]

I have only a couple CFL in the darkroom. Both are used when it really isn't a darkroom. General room lights for when I'm just in there for a minute looking for something and another task light for when I'm doing something on the counter and I need a lot of light in one spot. I never use when the darkroom is going to be dark because as mentioned, they glow after when turned off or hit by static electricity.

Someone mentioned flicker, which I don't see and can't measure on my oscilloscope. It is very small as the power supply in the CFL is running in the many kilohertz range.

Lifetime is much better with the newer ones than the older ones. Some of the early ones burned out quickly (infant mortality), but I have many from 10 years ago that continue to work.

The newer ones are a better color and it seems the CRI (color rendition index) has generally improved. Some early ones were too green. The white ones were way too blue. Halogen seems to be the best color and this is my main lighting in the darkroom with LED Christmas lights for the safelight.

Spectrographs of different CFLs on the web show little to no UV. No point in making light you can't see. Halogens w/o filters surely have more. As does a coldlight enlarger (but maybe the diffuser takes it out).

Although LEDs don't have UV, except those that are suppose to, white LEDs are really a blue LED with a fluorescent coating to shift some of the blue light to other colors, giving the appearance of white. These lamps have switching power supplies in their base too. I don't think that these are dimmable in the generic product, either.

[ic-racer]

I just want to continue my rant about these screw-in CFLs as being a big rip off.:mad:

I was in our pantry and saw that the conventional long tube fluorescent lamp in there still had a sticker on it. It was purchased in 1995 for $1.75. It is still working fine.

Ok, now I got that out of my system...

[Eric Woodbury]

There was a stack of 4 pack CFL in the grocery store the other day. $1 for a 4-pack. Subsidized by the power company, but still cheap.

[CG]

...except in applications where they are genuinely inappropriate, which would include darkrooms (the after-glow) and places where they are frequently turned on and off (i.e. on for minutes rather than hours), or on circuits with dimmers (although I have read that newer UFLs can withstand this particular usage; older ones cannot). There's never a completely free lunch...

Other places where they are not appropriate for technical reasons: enclosed fixtures, fixtures where the bulb is upside down, very cold places, very hot places.

They are limited. The spectrum is getting better, but with all the limitations on fixtures and on switching / dimming, I have found only a few spots in my house that are prime candidates for CFLs.

C

[mrladewig]

My biggest issue with the CFL is the broken distribution of light wavelengths. It can cause strange and unexpected shifts in color. For example, look at margarine under a kitchen (warm) CFL lamp. It will look somewhat green.

I'm very much for the idea of saving my own money from lighting, but I'm not sure of a place in my home where I'd be willing to use CFL. I don't want it in the kitchen and I don't want it where artwork is displayed, which is basically every room in my house. The remaining rooms are places where the lights are not kept on for extended periods so CFL is not a good choice there either. I've recently put some 42W CFL lamps in my garage and I like the light output, but I have noticed that they take a moment to light.

I'm not worried about mercury or disposal with CFL. My interest is in saving money in the long run.

I'm hopeful that the LED lights coming to market will be a better fit for my needs. I'm planning to test a sample pack of them sometime in the next year including the flood varieties.

And in regards to the original track of this thread, yes, I've noticed that they remained in a glowing state for some time. I've also lit fluorescent bulbs with static electricity. So I'd add darkroom to a place where CFL is not appropriate.

[magnusslayde]

Your CFL should be an instant on, unless it's below 60 deg. F or so in temp in the room or outside. Yes they do glow for a little while after turn off. The delay with turn on maybe due to they are getting old. My fathers house I inherited has several that were doing that, I put in new ones, and they turn instantly on. Most all Flourescents are low mercury now, they also contain FLOURINE gas which can be deadly in a high concentration. Wanna know what's worse than Flourescent and CFL? Metal Halide bulbs, they contain all sorts of things, like mercury, Thorium, Thallium, etc.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I'm just thinking about CFL enlarger bulbs... how crap would that be?!

That thing has been around for decades under the name of a cold light or cold cathode... Same technology but a slightly different coating.

[Eric Woodbury]

The best thing about CFLs is the lower power. All the other problems don't matter in our house, because someone turns on the lights and then leaves. If you're just going to leave lights on with nobody around, then it might as well be CFLs.