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cotdt
19-Feb-2008, 19:12
Very cool, I develop Velvia in Rodinal and color bleach/fixer, and I get color negatives! The colors are low in saturation which gives a black-and-white look, except with colors. How is this possible, when the color developer is not used?

Ash
19-Feb-2008, 19:17
c-41 or e-6 is made to develop a colour neg/tranny from each dye on the emulsion. there's still silver crystals on there, that's the light sensitive bit like with b&w.

you're developing the silver content, and i guess a tiny amount of dye that rodinal can cope with. that's my guess.

domenico Foschi
19-Feb-2008, 19:19
Very cool, I develop Velvia in Rodinal and color bleach/fixer, and I get color negatives! The colors are low in saturation which gives a black-and-white look, except with colors. How is this possible, when the color developer is not used?

Could you post some scans?
That sounds exciting.

butterflydream
19-Feb-2008, 20:51
That's very interesting. I would like to see how it would be printed on color paper as well.

I had tried C-41 process to desaturated the color intentionally in the past - for my personal project titled "Depression". I over-expose +2 stops, minimize the deveop time to 30 seconds and maximized breaching up to 10 min. to get below scanned examples. But the lab couldn't print it as I see on the film scan.

Leonard Evens
20-Feb-2008, 10:39
Ash has it right. In each layer the latent image in silver halide is converted to silver by a developer but additional chemical processes are supposed to tie that to production of dyes in proportion to the amount of sliver present. Rodinal develops the silver and weakly brings out the dyes compared to a color developer. When you bleach the silver is removed.

Ash
20-Feb-2008, 15:26
Leonard so the question is, if you don't bleach and just develop in something like Rodinal, can you get a black and white 'tinted' neg? Say, with the desaturated colour...?


I had tried with some old slide film and got brown negs, so that wasn't so good. I guess the trick would have been to bleach there.

mikez
15-Oct-2009, 11:04
I have done some experiments with E6 film, B/W Dev, and C-41 BLIX and have achieved very low saturation negatives. If anyone wants more info please let me know. I want to thank the people in this old thread for their information albeit very brief/vague because it was the ONLY information I could find online about this process.

If anyone wants to know more about what I have done I will post up details.

-Mike

Daniel_Buck
15-Oct-2009, 11:28
so, does it develop as a negative? or a positive?

mikez
15-Oct-2009, 11:34
The result is negative, here are a couple rough 35mm scans. I tried both Rodinal and HC110, I am going to try Sprint developer as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikezphoto/4014051425/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikezphoto/4014814094/

csant
15-Oct-2009, 12:26
mikez, details, yes please! :)

mikez
15-Oct-2009, 12:32
Here are the details I posted on APUG:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/67388-tri-process-e6-film-bw-dev-c41-blix.html

Greg Blank
15-Oct-2009, 13:10
since no one is actually answering the question....

C41 & e6 first developers are just b&w developer like d76
nothing fancy. Without the color developer is why your getting low density color.




Very cool, I develop Velvia in Rodinal and color bleach/fixer, and I get color negatives! The colors are low in saturation which gives a black-and-white look, except with colors. How is this possible, when the color developer is not used?

IanG
16-Oct-2009, 07:32
since no one is actually answering the question....

C41 & e6 first developers are just b&w developer like d76
nothing fancy. Without the color developer is why your getting low density color.

Wrong E6 first developer is a B&W developer, but C41 developer is a colour developer.

Ian

D. Bryant
16-Oct-2009, 08:07
since no one is actually answering the question....

C41 & e6 first developers are just b&w developer like d76
nothing fancy.

No they are not.

Greg Blank
18-Oct-2009, 05:16
Your correct.


Wrong E6 first developer is a B&W developer, but C41 developer is a colour developer.

Ian

Greg Blank
18-Oct-2009, 05:19
E6 is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-6_process

The steps for developing color transparency films using process E6 are:
First developer bath: 6:00 @ 100 F/38 C. This uses a potassium hydroquinone monosulfate - phenidone black & white film developer, with the preferred form of phenidone being 4-hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone (13047-13-7). The first developer forms a negative silver image in each layer of the film. The first developer is time and temperature sensitive because it controls contrast.[2]

C41 is not....but most likely contains the reducing in the developer and also color developers as one step. My error and I admit it.


No they are not.