Color Paper for Pinhole?

[Michael Heald]

Hello! I'm interested in trying color paper in my 8x10 pinhole. At 0.30 per sheet and the ease of home development, it seems attractive to start with pinhole color.
I'll would use an 85B filter to color correct. I've read that with such a filter, the ISO of the paper is around 25. Does this seem right?
I'll would shoot some gray scales under a sun and shade and come up with some curves to give a reasonable approximation of color after scanning for the final editing.
My biggest question regards dynamic range. How many zones can a subject have before the highlights start to burn out - 3,4,5? Thank you and best regards.

Michael A. Heald

[rwyoung]

Not really answering your questions but a neat site to visit none the less.

http://www.papercams.com/gallery/photos.html

[Nick_3536]

How is grey scale going to give you colour matches?

It's not just sun/shade. But morning/noon/afternoon. Altitude. Maybe cloud cover?

Colour meter with a set of filters? Ooops so much for low cost.

There are various discussions of this on Apug and photo.net but I think most are centred around one off images and accept less then perfect colour matching.

[Peter K]

Color-papers for C-prints are specially sentisized for the dyes used in color negs, so you will never get "realistic" pictures when used as negatives. It's different for reversal papers as e.g. Kodak Ektachrome Radiance. With this papers you will get direct positives. But the process, Ektachrome R-3, is a little bit more complicated. Also it needs correction filters during exposure to get a proper color balance. It's the same with Cibachrome, but this material is very slow.

Peter K

[Michael Heald]

The basic techniques for color balance that I've read about in this type of scenario entail taking a gray card at 25%, 50%, 75% gray and balance the color so that they are gray in the image. So, for example, if the 25% is too blue and it is known that the 25% gray scale should be 25% gray, the blue channel is adjusted to bring the patch to 25%gray. Any number of subdiivisions can be added, though I would think there would be a point of diminishing returns. More than one true gray for color balance may be all that would be needed to get fairly accurate color. I didn't say exact. The folks who work in color digital and all the spaces knkow the work it takes to achieve such results.

To make this work, then, I would take a pinhole picture of a gray scale under whatever conditions I wanted in order to create the standard curves. One for sunny conditions, one for cloudy, and one for shade in sunny conditions would probably handle 99.9% of my outdoor work. Theoretically, with each photography it would even be possible to take a simultaneous gray scale image through an auxilliary camera (or add a gray scale to the scene or even inside the camera) for exact color reproduction with each shot. Maybe be in the future!

Before digital, most photographers used 80, 82, and 85 filters to adjust color depending on film and the environmental situation, and then adjust the final color at printing. In the early digital, most cameras had a sunny and shade setting. Newer models add more. Having a couple of standardized color curves should be plenty for what I shoot for general outdoor shots.

I'm thinking that for this project a sunny and shade setting with gray scales to give the appropriate curves for a photoeditor would give an image that should be close enough to get a good approximation of color. Most snapshot shooters don't even bother with more than this, afterall. I would think final color editing could be done fairly easily in an image editor for the final print.

Anyway, as far as my original question - any guidance about paper speed and tonal scale for color papers? Best regards.

Micahel A. Heald

[Peter K]

Michael,

with color paper you cannot take a continous spectrum like with a color film becaus this paper hasn't a spectral sensitivity like panchromatic film or color negative / reversal film. So many colors are missing when you will use this material as negative material. Also this paper is hard and when the "negative" will be copied you get realy hard prints.

Kodak reversal paper isn't aviable anymore, but you could use Fuji Paper Type 35. This paper is also much more softer as C-Print paper. As a starting point take a speed of ASA 12 at tungsten illumination. For daylight you need a conversation filter and different color correction filters depend on the batch of the paper.

Peter K

[Michael Heald]

This looks similar to Ilfochrome, is that the case? Is the R-3 process similar to Ilfochrome?

I had thought of these, but unfortunately, I can only receive shipments via USPS, and these chemicals don't ship. I thought color paper would be interesting to try.

I am puzzled, though, if negatives have a broader spectral sensitivity than paper, isn't the extra spectral sensitivity lost when printing? Best regards.

Michael A. Heald

[Peter K]

No, R-3 is a chromogenic process, Ilfochrome a chromolytic one.

Look at the sensitivity charts and you will see the difference between film and paper.

Peter K

[Michael Heald]

I didn't see R-3 or the Fuji paper at B&H and Adorama. Where is it available? Best regards.

Michael A. Heald

[Michael Heald]

I found this at APUG 12/24/2007.

"This is Kodaks last reversal color paper for making color prints from slides. The process and the paper have been discontinued. It is a chromogenic dye type reversal process material, and is not compatible, nor similar in any way to Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. You cannot use it as a b/w paper at all."

Oh well. I guess I can try paper and see how it works, with the limitations of spectral response., then move up to color sheet film when I think I've got some shots that would work. Best regards.

Michael A. Heald

[rwyoung]

One other thought and this again may be of no use to you but have you considered using a chrome film inside your camera and then you could scan or make prints from that.

Or for that matter color negative film.

Neither of these are nearly the same as using color print paper as the "film" of course but I suppose using a chrome film would still let you live in the realm of odd color shifts due to the long exposures.

[Peter K]

Fuji Reversal Paper is still aviable. See
http://www.fujifilmusa.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/proPhotoProductType_35.jsp

Peter K

[Michael Heald]

Would the color sensitivities give a print that is more saturated than a negative of chrome?
I've read that papers resolve about 50 lpi, is this about correct?
If so, particularly for a 8x10 pinhole that I could enlarge to 16x20, a paper negative might do quite well.

Michael A. Heald