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cotdt
2-Feb-2008, 21:02
Hi, what is a quick way to see my B&W negatives as positives without doing any chemistry, scanning, or making a print?

I just want a quick and instant way of seeing how my picture looks like, as a positive. I do send some of my pics to be developed as a positive slide film, and they tell me how my pictures actually look like. But positives are too expensive to develop, so I'm wondering if I can just develop my pictures as negatives (which is cheap and fast to develop) and view them as positives.

I repeat that I don't want to have to make a print. I want to see how much picture looks like using the original negative film.

cotdt
2-Feb-2008, 21:04
I guess another solution is to develop my own positives, but the chemicals for that seem very expensive compared to developing negatives (Rodinal is dirt cheap!). If anyone knows of a cheap way to develop positives, then that would be an alternative solution for me.

Gary Beasley
2-Feb-2008, 21:09
Some video cameras can be set to invert to a negative image, if you have one try it. Otherwise you should simply scan the negative and look at it in Photoshop. This may or may not be a very fast process

David A. Goldfarb
2-Feb-2008, 21:12
If you look at the emulsion side of a B&W neg against a black background, you can see it as a positive, but it's not a terribly good indicator of how a print would look.

The normal way of previewing negs before printing is to make contact prints, which aren't too expensive to make yourself. You don't need an enlarger.

Vaughn
2-Feb-2008, 21:15
I have looked at negatives for so long my brain turns them into positives -- it is not something I consciencously do. Other than gaining that experience, try laying them on a mirror or on a white piece of paper -- at the proper angle they can appear as a positive.

Vaughn

Bill_1856
2-Feb-2008, 21:21
Put it in a cheap flatbed scanner and invert the image in Photoshop.

cotdt
2-Feb-2008, 21:27
Some video cameras can be set to invert to a negative image, if you have one try it. Otherwise you should simply scan the negative and look at it in Photoshop. This may or may not be a very fast process

Thanks for your response. I do scan my negatives, but the problem is that I have to adjust the contrast and curves so I don't have any reference as to know it is supposed to look like. It is also slow, as my scanner sucks. If I can see the film as a positive, not only would I be able to preview but I would also have a reference for contrast balance and such things.


If you look at the emulsion side of a B&W neg against a black background, you can see it as a positive, but it's not a terribly good indicator of how a print would look.

Really? Doesn't seem to be working for me. Maybe it's because of the film I'm using? It has an anti-halation layer.



The normal way of previewing negs before printing is to make contact prints, which aren't too expensive to make yourself. You don't need an enlarger.

I don't have a permanent darkroom though, so it would be hard. I develop my film in a dark public restroom (in a bag). I think it would be difficult to fit all that contact print equipment in my backpack.


Other than gaining that experience, try laying them on a mirror or on a white piece of paper -- at the proper angle they can appear as a positive.

Vaughn

Thanks for your response, Vaughn, but unfortunately it doesn't work for the film that I am using. If I look at the film at an extreme angle, it simply becomes really shiny. It remains a negative.

Any other suggestions? I appreciate all the responses so far. Keep them coming. There must be some special trick somebody might know.

ic-racer
2-Feb-2008, 22:04
I think you are asking for the impossible. There is no quick and easy way to see the positive in traditional B&W printing. Thats why they invented Polaroid and Digital for all those impatient people:D

Seriously though, printing out paper will give you your positive image by just exposure to UV light, though you would need to 'process' it if you required permanence.

Vaughn
2-Feb-2008, 22:05
The "proper" angle may not be an extreme one...but a combination of the angle of the light and one's eye. I have my own curiousity up now...I'll have to play around with that next week.

Vaughn

cotdt
3-Feb-2008, 02:52
I was thinking about this and some thought came into my head. What about glow-in-the-dark paper? Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Glow-in-the-dark-Photo-paper-8x10_W0QQitemZ300194313447QQihZ020QQcategoryZ73458QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anybody ever tried it?

Rick Olson
3-Feb-2008, 09:56
Hi, what is a quick way to see my B&W negatives as positives without doing any chemistry, scanning, or making a print?

I just want a quick and instant way of seeing how my picture looks like, as a positive. I do send some of my pics to be developed as a positive slide film, and they tell me how my pictures actually look like. But positives are too expensive to develop, so I'm wondering if I can just develop my pictures as negatives (which is cheap and fast to develop) and view them as positives.

I repeat that I don't want to have to make a print. I want to see how much picture looks like using the original negative film.


I just put my B/W (or color) negs on a light box, get my digicam and set it to macro mode, shoot, load them into my mac, then convert them to a positive in Photoshop. Quick and easy!


Rick

Gary Beasley
3-Feb-2008, 14:05
If you look at the emulsion side of a B&W neg against a black background, you can see it as a positive, but it's not a terribly good indicator of how a print would look.


This usually only works if the negative density is a bit on the low side, usually thinner than you would want for a good print.

Bruce Watson
3-Feb-2008, 14:15
I have looked at negatives for so long my brain turns them into positives -- it is not something I consciencously do.

Same here. Just like looking at the image on the ground glass -- it's only upside down and backwards if I consciously will myself to see it that way. Both of these are something that just comes with practice.

Ted Harris
3-Feb-2008, 14:38
Surprised no one has mentioned it .... why not just shoot a Polaroid in the first place and keep it as a record of the exposure. If what you are really seeking is an instant solution that will give you a final print ..... it doesn't exist.

Bernard Kaye
4-Feb-2008, 19:43
Try to look at emulsion side of contrasty negatives at varying angles and light direction until you find the combination of angle & light that convinces you that you "see" what a print would be. It is subjective: sometimes looking through the film (emulsion on other side) will do it for you, your perception. This is an area where 35mm. and 120 film users have it easier because the curve in the film when you hold it up does things to the light coming through the negative. For me, old TRI X developed in Rodinal 1/50 or so produced a negative that I thought could appear to tell me what print would look like. It is subjective.
Bernie

cotdt
4-Feb-2008, 19:59
For me, old TRI X developed in Rodinal 1/50 or so produced a negative that I thought could appear to tell me what print would look like. It is subjective.
Bernie

Tri-X in Rodinal 1:50 is exactly what I use but can you tell me the exact angle where the negative becomes a positive?

cotdt
4-Feb-2008, 20:00
Surprised no one has mentioned it .... why not just shoot a Polaroid in the first place and keep it as a record of the exposure. If what you are really seeking is an instant solution that will give you a final print ..... it doesn't exist.

That's a good idea too, thanks, but an expensive one.

rwyoung
5-Feb-2008, 08:19
Tri-X in Rodinal 1:50 is exactly what I use but can you tell me the exact angle where the negative becomes a positive?

There isn't one.

What they are experiencing is the same effect that makes a wet-plate collodion ambrotype or tintype work as a positive.

To work with a "film" negative it needs to be a bit underexposed and a bit overdeveloped. I stated that from memory so I may have said it backwards. At any rate, a "proper" negative won't easily exhibit the effect.

And by the way, you mentioned the anti-halation layer. With proper washing and fixing, that is long gone. You may have some residual base tint (blue, gray or pink) but that isn't the anti-halation layer.

The best thing you can do is to test your film and developer for proper EI and developing time. Simple, no densitometer needed, test in the free articles at View Camera. Then print lots and lots of negatives. It will become easier to read a negative with practice.

ic-racer
5-Feb-2008, 08:24
Were you thinking of contact printing with the glow in the dark paper to get a temporary image? It might work, but you would still have a negative image. The bright glowing areas would be the clear (shadow) areas of your original negative.

Arne Norris
5-Feb-2008, 17:53
Looking at a negative against a dark background does work somewhat, but best with a very thin negative and with a light shining just the right angle on the silver of the negative. It's actually kind of magical. But probably not useful for your needs. I discovered this by accident many years ago when I had some very thin negs from some early street work. Cool to hear that someone else has discovered the same thing!

CG
6-Feb-2008, 09:13
Hi, what is a quick way to see my B&W negatives as positives without doing any chemistry, scanning, or making a print?

I just want a quick and instant way of seeing how my picture looks like, as a positive. I do send some of my pics to be developed as a positive slide film, and they tell me how my pictures actually look like. But positives are too expensive to develop, so I'm wondering if I can just develop my pictures as negatives (which is cheap and fast to develop) and view them as positives.

I repeat that I don't want to have to make a print. I want to see how much picture looks like using the original negative film".

and...

"I guess another solution is to develop my own positives, but the chemicals for that seem very expensive compared to developing negatives (Rodinal is dirt cheap!). If anyone knows of a cheap way to develop positives, then that would be an alternative solution for me....

What you want doesn't exist, other than the options you have ruled out - print or develop positives or scan or polaroid....

Best,

C

Harley Goldman
6-Feb-2008, 09:44
As suggested, put it in a scanner. Set the scanner software to B&W negative transparency and pre-scan it. It will pull up as a positive on the screen. No need to do a full scan or convert in PS.

false_Aesthetic
6-Feb-2008, 14:11
without doing any chemistry, scanning, or making a print?



Stop shooting with film.

Sass Quatch
6-Feb-2008, 14:30
Goldfarbs suggestion is a good one. I do it often. You have to get the right angle and see it against a black background.

Mark Carney
7-Feb-2008, 10:09
I have an old PHOTOVIX. It was designed to display negatives and positives on a tv. Real simple to use and fantastic for a quick review. On larger negatives you might have to look at sections or tilt it sideways and set up a light table.
Fantastic and simple device, very easy.

mark

harrykauf
7-Feb-2008, 10:22
I use the camera in my mobile phone, switched to negative.

Bobby Ironsights
13-Feb-2008, 20:54
Thanks for your response, Vaughn, but unfortunately it doesn't work for the film that I am using. If I look at the film at an extreme angle, it simply becomes really shiny. It remains a negative.


This suggestion will work if you put it EMULSION SIDE UP.

Bernard Kaye
13-Feb-2008, 21:25
I think I thought it worked better for me with a fully exposed (whatever this means also is subjective) negative which Rodinal 1/50 will produce somewhat dense negatives. The angle depends on how the light source hits the negative; I came upon this by accident viewing against an incandescent bulb in a not brightly lit room. I was looking directly into negative with light source off to the side; thought I been too long in dark room.Experiment.
Bernie