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View Full Version : Let's talk about 4x5 pinhole cameras...



BradS
29-Jan-2008, 00:40
A while back, my son and I made a 4x5 pinole camera out of black foam core and duct tape...It was a lot of work and the darned thing is fragile. We've just about worn it out.

I'm thinking of making or buying a more sturdy one made of wood. There are many commercially available...leonardo, santa barbara camera co, zero image...etc.

I'm interested in hearing peoples' opinions about these and others...

What's good? What's not so good? Why?

Walter Calahan
29-Jan-2008, 05:58
I own 4x5 and 8x10 pinhole cameras from all three pinhole camera providers you mentioned.

They are great.

The Zeroimage design is a little unique, but very functional. The Leonardo and Lensless Camera are both excellent. You won't go wrong with one or another.

I love Zeroimage's medium format cameras. Nothing finer on the market. All their cameras are works of art in their beauty.

Lensless in Santa Barbara gives you more choice in styling and focal length.

The Leonardo design is elegant, with less removable parts.

It's cool that you and your son learned so much making your pinhole camera.

davidb
29-Jan-2008, 06:31
Have you seen http://www.8banners.com/

They look pretty good.

rwyoung
29-Jan-2008, 07:49
You can make a very sturdy one from a quart or gallon paint can. Not sure what is in your area but Ace Hardware sells "clean" unused cans for cheap money. The inside is already a dull gray but will take a coat of paint (Krylon matte black works great).

There is a company that makes these too so if you aren't interested in cutting tin and poking holes you can buy one.

Otherwise there are lots of plans for making cameras and it isn't really that hard to make a reasonably sturdy one yourself. You can do the cut-and-fit (and recut) method or work from plans. Lots of pinhole calculators out there, Google is your friend. Bop over to www.f295.org and browse for a while. There you will find plans and opinions to satisfy your every pinhole desire.

Glenn Thoreson
29-Jan-2008, 09:40
I make my own wood pinhole cameras. If you have access to basic wood working tools, it's not hard. I think building them is as much fun as using them.
Making your own pinhole isn't hard, either. There are lots of instructive sites on the web about all this. Have fun.

vinny
29-Jan-2008, 10:23
I made a 4x5 from 1/2" gator foam along with a spring back out of print tongs and clothespins. I never messed with it much though.
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum62/20781-my-first-foam-core-camera.html

David Vickery
29-Jan-2008, 10:59
I'm using baltic birch plywood to make mine. I am trying not to spend any money and just use what I have on hand, so I'll probably use a bear can aluminum to make the pinhole plates.

Vaughn
29-Jan-2008, 11:23
How about an old Crown Graphic? Adjustable "focal length", built in 4x5 back, sturdy, tripod hole. Get a Speed Graphic and you also get a built-in shutter.

Vaughn

tpersin
29-Jan-2008, 11:43
good plans to build a wooden one:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projectplans_display/?planid=11093

the crown/speed graphic idea is a good one, here's one i made with quick change pinholes ( to accomodate the easily changeable focal distance) I wrote this up in View Camera a little over a year ago....
http://www.f295.org/Pinholeforum/forum/Blah.pl?m-1153099883/s-0/highlight-/#num0

eddie
29-Jan-2008, 11:54
i have a zero image 4x5 with a total of 3 extensions. a great camera! i love it. the super ultra wide 25mm is fun. i use the 90mm most often. beautiful workmanship.

eddie

Drew Bedo
29-Jan-2008, 12:29
Hello Brads,

Look at the cigar boxes that ACID brand ( Drew Estates) cigars are sold in. These els are glued onto the wood. These boxes are much thicker than other cigar boxes and the corners have very nice finger joints. The company logo and othe information is not carved into the wood; gummed labels are glued on instead. These paper labels can be removed and the mahogany wood refinished. they make great gift boxes and I've made a PH camera from one. Seems like a great father-son roject! Cigar stores sell empty boxes for a few dollars...worth a look.

Alan Davenport
29-Jan-2008, 14:09
I took a piece of thin brass shim stock, drilled a 0.2mm hole in it (smallest drill bit I had, #78) and mounted it onto a spare Linhof type lensboard. I just mount it like any other lens and take the shot. If I got the formula right (and I've seen more than one formula) my 0.2mm pinhole is optimal for about 150mm focal length. I've used it at various lengths up to 400mm and it works fine.

rippo
29-Jan-2008, 15:00
I've built a few pinhole cameras, and to me, that always seemed the point. buying a pre-made one seems like overkill.

my most recent one was a 4x5 in the 'traditional' oatmeal container. i put a film holder inside, braced it with a folded 'V' of cardboard, and made the pinhole from a disposable roasting pan. i use a scanner at high resolution to determine the pinhole size.

i've also shot pinhole shots on my Alan Greene design 8x10. Another favorite was a metal cookie tin using 4x5 (graded photo paper taped inside).

And there were a few smaller format pinhole cameras, not germane to this conversation....

thetooth
29-Jan-2008, 15:01
i have a zero image 4x5 with all three panels and the 6x6 medium format version . they are great , well made cameras . they also have a nice gallery section on their website so you can see what's possible . 25mm with the 4x5 is like the jump to lightspeed .

walter23
29-Jan-2008, 15:13
I've been using a pinhole lens board (home made out of thin plywood plus a commercial pinhole aperture used for electron microscopy) on my shen hao. I have a simpler box camera in the works for when I just want an ultrawide pinhole camera to toss in my backpack.

Somebody gave me my pinholes (they come in lots of 100 so he had a lot of extras), but you can find the electron microscopy apertures somewhere here (I might have the wrong catalogue page - the ones you want are relatively inexpensive copper disks, something like $25 or $30 for a 100 lot):

http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/products/microscope/aperture.aspx

The stock is very thin (reduces vignetting) and they're precision holes, but the entire disc is very small - just a few millimeters - which makes mounting them a challenge. I've been making mounts out of electrical tape to attach them to a bigger hole and it's worked fine.

Neal Shields
29-Jan-2008, 15:37
I too made a Linhof lens board and got quite good results.

I targeted 75mm so Would probably need a different one if I decide to use it on my 8x10 with a Linhof adapter.

walter23
29-Jan-2008, 15:54
Are the cigars any good?


Hello Brads,

Look at the cigar boxes that ACID brand ( Drew Estates) cigars are sold in. These els are glued onto the wood. These boxes are much thicker than other cigar boxes and the corners have very nice finger joints. The company logo and othe information is not carved into the wood; gummed labels are glued on instead. These paper labels can be removed and the mahogany wood refinished. they make great gift boxes and I've made a PH camera from one. Seems like a great father-son roject! Cigar stores sell empty boxes for a few dollars...worth a look.

vinny
29-Jan-2008, 18:12
Check out jeff's work. He uses a lensless 4x5.
http://www.jeffkorte.com/

Colin Corneau
29-Jan-2008, 21:09
My god, that's strong work.

The pinhole I have is quite wide angle in view...his looks like a 35mm equivalent of about 30-40mm, no?

Beautiful...thank you for posting that.

rwyoung
30-Jan-2008, 07:18
I'm using baltic birch plywood to make mine. I am trying not to spend any money and just use what I have on hand, so I'll probably use a bear can aluminum to make the pinhole plates.

You are going to use a bear's butt!?! :eek: Hope the bear doesn't mind!:D

rippo
30-Jan-2008, 08:03
a bear butt? that's a bit larger than a 'pin hole'...

BarryS
30-Jan-2008, 08:12
Haha--no he means the can the bear comes in. I prefer fresh bear, but some people like the canned ones. On another note, I asked for a 4x5 pinhole from my girlfriend for my birthday. "You need *another* camera?" :)

katie cooke
30-Jan-2008, 11:09
I use a santa barbara lensless camera for the vast majority of my pinhole stuff: http://slowlight.net

It's the cheapest wood version of the 75mm 4x5" one, and I can't recommend it highly enough. Its well travelled, rained on, sat on, dropped, stained, and it still keeps on going. Takes pretty much any holder you can think of, and is sturdy but light. probably the best 60 dollars I've ever spent on photographic kit.

BradS
30-Jan-2008, 12:05
I use a santa barbara lensless camera for the vast majority of my pinhole stuff: http://slowlight.net

It's the cheapest wood version of the 75mm 4x5" one, and I can't recommend it highly enough. Its well travelled, rained on, sat on, dropped, stained, and it still keeps on going. Takes pretty much any holder you can think of, and is sturdy but light. probably the best 60 dollars I've ever spent on photographic kit.

Katie,
Your pinhole photos from Morocco were what originally inspired me to build that first 4x5 pinhole camera with my son. Thank you again, for posting them. They are absolutely wonderful. I like your pinhole portraits too....

Very Best Regards,

Brad.

jetcode
4-Feb-2008, 05:14
one of the coolest cameras I had at one point was a turn of the century Kodak 4x5 with a custom f333 pinhole lens board. It had a metal heart shaped swinging level on the side

Rory_5244
4-Feb-2008, 09:36
I bought this http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/PY3005 to stick onto an Arca Swiss lensboard. Haven't tried it out yet, though.

BradS
4-Feb-2008, 10:56
$42 for a pin hole???? Wow!

rippo
4-Feb-2008, 11:04
yeah, holy crap! that's expensive.

Rory, i'll make you one for free. or perhaps a roll of film. it will be made of micro-manufactured aluminum (i.e. a disposable roasting pan), hand drilled using traditional technology (a needle, a nail file and a pencil). and it will be almost guaranteed to be within .1 mm of your specification.

seriously. return that overpriced piece of tin foil, PM me and tell me what size you want, and i'll make you one.

that goes for anyone actually. trade me a roll of film (35mm or roll film, b/w preferred) and i'll make you a pretty darn good pinhole.

-matt

Amund BLix Aaeng
4-Feb-2008, 13:04
I have the Zero Image 4x5 and I like it a lot. I only have the 25mm frame and I do struggle a little getting used to that insanely wide FOV. But it`s a good challenge :)


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1362/719887419_15cbe8ef04_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/509824342_885cad3849_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/509824334_0dc8d99bcd_o.jpg

Rory_5244
4-Feb-2008, 19:44
Wow, Amund!

Well, gee, and here I was thinking that those metal sheets were worth it. :o Judging by what I pay for Arca lensboards I must be becoming inured to ridiculously expensive photo stuff. I'll return them ASAP, thanks guys. :(

rwyoung
5-Feb-2008, 08:03
The price is not that far out of line with what some other "kits" sell for. Some people just aren't comfortable making these things. After teaching a few workshops I can understand why there is a market (small) for pre-drilled holes. Had one gal who was too vain to wear glasses and for the life of her could not master the drilling technique and so always had multiple dimples on her bit of brass. If she removed the needle to check her progress, she couldn't see to go back to the same spot!

That said, you can make your own, let some of these guys make you some or you can get a "kit" for quite a bit less through eBay if you search for PinholeBilly (not me). Other "kits" exist too. :)

BradS
5-Feb-2008, 08:22
Hmmm, I pushed a sewing needle through a piece of Aluminum foil and that seems to have worked just fine. Figured the diameter of the sewing needle by the description on its packaging....to each, his own, I guess.

scott.speck
21-Mar-2008, 11:56
I have a Zero Image 4x5 with 2 extra shims, though I usually operate this camera in its 25mm focal length configuration, with a pinhole (not a zone plate). I have sold some huge enlargements from this camera, and I typically create 40 megapixel scans with my black/white negative results, at the 25mm focal length. I also have a Zero 2000, which I also enjoy thoroughly.

If anyone is interested, my pinhole set (with the newer photos near the bottom) on flickr is at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41427422@N00/sets/72157594506881880/

Despite my huge film scan sizes (40 megapixels for the 4x5), I have only posted 1 megapixel (or less) versions of those images on flickr, due to a problem recently with photo theft by a new flickr member.

One thing I'm personally interested in is converting my existing camera (or creating a new one) that allows for more precisely timed high-speed exposures. If I were to shoot with ISO3200 sheet film, then, on a bright, sunny day, at f/138, my exposure times could be quite short. Because I'm interested in shooting moving objects, and also to allow handheld shooting at high ISO's, I'd like to find a way to outfit my 4x5 with a shutter that would allow me to do fairly accurate timed exposures down to 1/50 or 1/100 second or so. However, all the compur shutters I've looked at are "tall enough" that they would interfere with the 160 degree field of view of my 4x5 camera. I've looked into Melles Griot ultra-thin electronic shutters (like the ones I used to use on LN2-cooled CCD dewars when I did astronomy observations at a big scope, back in grad school), but the shutter + controller + power supply would cost over $2,000! I'm looking for a mechanical, cheaper solution to my problem. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear about them.

I feel that pinhole photography is an artistic medium ripe for experimentation and creating truly world-class art.

-Scott

BarryS
21-Mar-2008, 12:23
Hi Scott-- I chatted with you via Flickr (xtol7) and ended up getting a Zero Image 4x5--I love it! AFAIK, there isn't any ISO3200 4x5 film, but I guess you could push a 400 speed film. I'd worry a little about the hot spot/vignetting effect getting unmanageable because of the increase in contrast if you did a three stop push.

FYI--Scott's flickr stream is definitely worth a look--he has some great stuff.

scott.speck
21-Mar-2008, 12:52
Barry,

I think you just answered my question for me. Because I'd be limited to film speeds of around 400 and less, I'm going to forget the whole idea of "high speed" pinhole photography. I was assuming I could find really high ISO films in 4x5 format. Thanks for your good words on my pinhole work, and I just added you as a flickr contact. I recently created a print about 40" wide from a 4x5 pinhole scan, and it did really well at an art show. It's now hanging, framed, in a wealthy individual's living room. :)

Thanks again, Barry, especially for that "heads up" about the film iso issue... I wouldn't want to purposely push 400 speed film to 3200.

Scott

robert fallis
21-Mar-2008, 23:44
I have a pinhole in a crown graphic lens board, just clip it in when I'm fed up of focus,
it also gives you a change of focal lenght

bob